vito Posted March 24, 2015 at 01:25 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 01:25 PM Especially before we achieved legal concealed carry in Illinois, I fondly thought of Texas where I had lived for several years, as a state with a rational attitude toward honest citizens and firearms. And recent events such as the likelihood of open carrying becoming legal have added to this positive image. But Texas is as backward as Illinois and some other states in some of the restrictions placed upon LICENSED concealed carriers. I just read about an incident in a Texas bar, where it is illegal even for a licensed individual to carry concealed, where the licensed individual saved several lives by stopping a group of armed robbers. When the robbers opened fire on the patrons, the concealed carrier shot and killed two of the thugs and the other two fled. Then the concealed carrier fled himself, because despite his heroism and his saving of other's lives, he would be, and will be if identified, charged as a felon for having his gun while in the bar. My hope is that the patrons and employees of the bar find their memory clouded, and are unable to "help" the police identify and find the good Samaritan who saved their lives. But even in the best of circumstances this gentleman will not likely be able to resume patronizing that bar since all it would take is one person calling the police to tell them that the felonious carrier was back in the bar. Come on Texas, show the nation you understand that licensed individuals are not the problem, and that they should not be forced to choose between being helpless and unarmed or complying with a ridiculous law. Then maybe other states will take Texas' lead and make their concealed carry laws less irrationally restricted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyGuy Posted March 24, 2015 at 02:23 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 02:23 PM Texas is hardly the paradigm of 2A rights. People just think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitter Clinger Posted March 24, 2015 at 02:33 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 02:33 PM Have to agree. I was surprised to learn how restrictive some of TX's gun laws are, especially in regards to CCW. Ridiculous things, like if you are carrying concealed and inadvertently expose, you can get in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solareclipse2 Posted March 24, 2015 at 02:43 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 02:43 PM I read that story some time ago and while I won't comment on illegal activity, I will say that I think it's a shame that a good man will be punished for a good deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted March 24, 2015 at 03:22 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 03:22 PM After all, Texas is where the Luby's occurred, and even though that resulted in a shall-issue CCL law, there were and are still a fair number of individuals in government in that state who don't thing that "regular folks" have any need to be armed, if for no other reason than the specious view that citizens "shouldn't have the ability to resist the police if they decide to shoot back." This is actually what someone with family in Texas law enforcement told me is a somewhat widely held opinion among the governing/LE sorts down there. Very Boss Hogg-ish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miztic Posted March 24, 2015 at 04:04 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 04:04 PM After all, Texas is where the Luby's occurred, and even though that resulted in a shall-issue CCL law, there were and are still a fair number of individuals in government in that state who don't thing that "regular folks" have any need to be armed, if for no other reason than the specious view that citizens "shouldn't have the ability to resist the police if they decide to shoot back." This is actually what someone with family in Texas law enforcement told me is a somewhat widely held opinion among the governing/LE sorts down there. Very Boss Hogg-ish.All politicians seem to think that way, that's why the majority of states have laws about carry in buildings "controlled by a unit of government" or similar. You'd think the 2A would ESPECIALLY apply in publicly funded buildings, but no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chibooey Posted March 24, 2015 at 04:17 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 04:17 PM This brings a question to my mind, what is the most 2A friendly state? I am thinking Arizona. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted March 24, 2015 at 04:21 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 04:21 PM If you like to carry long guns, Texas is as good or better that the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrTriple Posted March 24, 2015 at 06:27 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 06:27 PM The $150 fee is also unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDEESUL Posted March 24, 2015 at 06:45 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 06:45 PM This brings a question to my mind, what is the most 2A friendly state? I am thinking Arizona. Thoughts? I agree with Arizona. Montana, and Kentucky are up there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revo.concepts Posted March 24, 2015 at 06:51 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 06:51 PM Wyoming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chislinger Posted March 24, 2015 at 09:08 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 09:08 PM Vermont is the original "no permit necessary open or concealed" state. But it's a small state and to get to the rest of the country you have to pass through NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Posted March 24, 2015 at 09:20 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 09:20 PM This brings a question to my mind, what is the most 2A friendly state? I am thinking Arizona. Thoughts?Probably Vermont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highspeed Posted March 24, 2015 at 09:23 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 09:23 PM This brings a question to my mind, what is the most 2A friendly state? I am thinking Arizona. Thoughts?Probably Vermont. Alaska? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highspeed Posted March 24, 2015 at 09:26 PM Share Posted March 24, 2015 at 09:26 PM Utah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglebob Posted March 25, 2015 at 01:56 PM Share Posted March 25, 2015 at 01:56 PM Have to agree. I was surprised to learn how restrictive some of TX's gun laws are, especially in regards to CCW. Ridiculous things, like if you are carrying concealed and inadvertently expose, you can get in trouble.nu I believe printing can get you in trouble, or at least could in the past. Texas has some of the same type of CPZs as Illinois, hospitals, nursing homes, amusement parks, college campus, bars, and in addition places of worship. Their LTC costs $140 and expires on your birthday 4 years from when issued, so on average is good for 4 1/2 years making it more expensive per year than Illinois. (Renewal is $70, lets get ours reduced by 50% or more too.) The training requirement was originally 10 to 15 hours til Sept 1, 2013. Finger prints are also required. There is also Duty to Inform. Texas is not a gun carry utopia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latetotheparty Posted March 25, 2015 at 01:56 PM Share Posted March 25, 2015 at 01:56 PM Not that Florida is the best, because some of their laws are just as restrictive. But as I'm vacationing in Florida as I type this, I've enjoyed a larger sense of firearm freedom. Those "GFZ" signs we see in IL, they carry no weight here in the Gunshine State. The legislature has enacted and even enforced laws on preemption. If I'm not mistaken, there are now fines in place. Just read a story where a county clinic attempted to prohibit carry when a patient was discovered to be carrying. They were instructed that it was not legal, and had to take down the signs. I was able to carry at Universal Studios yesterday, and the Orlando Science Museum the day before. There were no signs and no metal detectors at the entrances to either place. I've also read how momentary printing or 2nd amendment exposure is not punished here. Law enforcement simply accepts and expects that most here are armed, and so long as you're not acting a fool, thug, gang banger or other, Carry On. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted March 25, 2015 at 05:23 PM Share Posted March 25, 2015 at 05:23 PM This brings a question to my mind, what is the most 2A friendly state? I am thinking Arizona. Thoughts? I agree with Arizona. Montana, and Kentucky are up there too. No Carry in any establishment with a liquor license or banks in Montana. No Carry in establishments with a liquor license or government buildings in Kentucky. Just sayin'.... Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonOglesby - Now in Texas Posted March 25, 2015 at 05:46 PM Share Posted March 25, 2015 at 05:46 PM I found the Texas process to get a CHL very close to Illinois (though with a MUCH shorter class). The rules around prohibited places is also close (schools, hospitals, bars that get 51% of revenue from alcohol, etc). BUT. With that said, government building are not defacto banned. And seeing a no-guns sign here is not nearly as common as Illinois. I have been in restaurants, stores big and small, and besides a hospital and a court building I have walked into I have not seen a place with their legally described 30.06 sign... Which BTW is BIG and must contain the lettering prescribed in the law in 1INCH block letters in both English and Spanish (check out the attached image). I think that your title to post is a bit misleading though. The guy was CCW'ing in a BAR. purely prohibited place (in a majority of states). So he took off. Good. but spend a year in Texas vs Illinois and you will see the difference. heck, I walked into the shop the other day and bought a new shotgun. Showed my CCL, filled out the paper work and left. No waiting no problem. Of course that was after I was at the gun show last week and swapped an old S&W of mine +100 bucks with a dealer for used Sig... Showed the CCL. no wait for the fed call in. Walked out the door. OH... and I have a suppressor on order w/ a shop in Austin for one of my ARs. Lets not knock texas. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Catesby Posted March 25, 2015 at 06:51 PM Share Posted March 25, 2015 at 06:51 PM No Carry in establishments with a liquor license ... in Kentucky.Careful my friend, you might want to clarify, it is the portion of an establishment dedicated to the serving of alcohol. I have legally carried in fine dining restaurants in Kentucky many times. I just have been careful not to enter the "bar area." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted March 25, 2015 at 08:20 PM Share Posted March 25, 2015 at 08:20 PM No Carry in establishments with a liquor license ... in Kentucky.Careful my friend, you might want to clarify, it is the portion of an establishment dedicated to the serving of alcohol. I have legally carried in fine dining restaurants in Kentucky many times. I just have been careful not to enter the "bar area." Still more strict than Illinois in cases where <50% of sales come from liquor. But point taken. Overall, I thought Montana was great, but not being able to carry into a hot dog stand that serves beer was a bit different. Also, banks seem quite an odd prohibition in what is considered to be a gun - friendly state. Trains are also prohibited there. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTHunter Posted March 26, 2015 at 02:43 AM Share Posted March 26, 2015 at 02:43 AM This brings a question to my mind, what is the most 2A friendly state? I am thinking Arizona. Thoughts? Wyoming The website bankrate.com had an article recently about the 10 best retirement states for 2015. Of the 10, over half were in the Great Plains/West with Wyoming being #1. Others included Idaho (#4), Montana (#7), Arizona (#9), Utah (#3), South Dakota (#8), and Colorado (#2). I don't know about the 2A aspects of South Dakota but the cold would tend to make me shy away from there. Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and Utah all have a lot going for them. Arizona's problem is that its crime rate is quite a bit higher than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GcDm2010 Posted March 26, 2015 at 04:06 AM Share Posted March 26, 2015 at 04:06 AM MO is about a 10 minute drive from here, why I don't move there? Because a MO CCW wouldn't be any good at work, Church, or Walmart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted March 26, 2015 at 01:02 PM Share Posted March 26, 2015 at 01:02 PM Overall, I thought Montana was great, but not being able to carry into a hot dog stand that serves beer was a bit different. Also, banks seem quite an odd prohibition in what is considered to be a gun - friendly state. Trains are also prohibited there. Trains aren't allowed in Montana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted March 26, 2015 at 03:22 PM Share Posted March 26, 2015 at 03:22 PM Overall, I thought Montana was great, but not being able to carry into a hot dog stand that serves beer was a bit different. Also, banks seem quite an odd prohibition in what is considered to be a gun - friendly state. Trains are also prohibited there. Trains aren't allowed in Montana? Carrying on trains is prohibited in Montana. Purple all you want. Unless you deliver firearms and ammunition to the operator of the train prior to boarding. Max $500 fine and/or 6 months in county jail. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted March 26, 2015 at 03:59 PM Share Posted March 26, 2015 at 03:59 PM Texas is right in the middle, IMO. There are many states with significantly better firearm rights, and many states with significantly worse. Their 30.06 rule is good in the clarity, but it would be better for all signs to not be enforceable. Their prohibited locations list is not as bad as Illinois, but it could be a lot better too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyflyer Posted March 26, 2015 at 10:57 PM Share Posted March 26, 2015 at 10:57 PM How about Arkansas? No license required down there anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyflyer Posted March 26, 2015 at 10:59 PM Share Posted March 26, 2015 at 10:59 PM As much as guys and gals complain about Illinois, we are not that bad. I can still own standard capacity magazines and most of the law enforcement is on our side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted March 27, 2015 at 01:18 PM Share Posted March 27, 2015 at 01:18 PM How about Arkansas? No license required down there anymore. Not according to the authorities. I would not advise permit-less carry in Arkansas at this point. I imagine this will take an arrest, conviction and appeal in the courts before this is solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junglebob Posted March 27, 2015 at 01:52 PM Share Posted March 27, 2015 at 01:52 PM ] How about Arkansas? No license required down there anymore. Not according to the authorities. I would not advise permit-less carry in Arkansas at this point. I imagine this will take an arrest, conviction and appeal in the courts before this is solved. In Arkansas unlike Illinois, churches are CPZs. However that does not preclude them from determining who may carry on church property and who may carry in a private K-12 school on church property. So if you church has a school you might be better off in Arkansas if they'll give you a permission slip. Ohio allows carry on church property "with permission" and from what I read on the Ohio CCW forum not many do. It could be because of perceived liability issues and if their law was like Illinois and the churches had to post most wouldn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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