chip Posted July 1, 2014 at 01:13 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 01:13 AM 1. It's for SELF DEFENSE, not Stuff Defense.As much as you might want to use a firearm to stop someone from tampering with or stealing your "stuff", the courts look very unfavorably when someone uses deadly force to protect something that can be replaced by an insurance company. Using a firearm should be a last resort, and only to protect life. 2. If you wouldn't do it without a gun, DON'T do it with a gun.If there are places you wouldn't go without a gun, don't go there with a gun. If there are people or situations you wouldn't approach without a gun, don't approach with a gun. Many people needlessly get into conflict because they think their gun can get them out of it. It's not a shield of invincibility. We often see these people on the wrong end of a court case, or being posthumously honored for their bravery. 3. Shooting and drawing from a holster are DIMINISHING skills.Many think that taking a single class or practicing once a year, are all that's needed for defensive handgun skills. When the time comes that you need to use a firearm for self defense, it's like the personal Super Bowl of your life. Do you think quarterbacks only practice once a year or a couple of times a year? Plan a practice regimen, even if it's only 15 minutes of dry fire every week, or one visit to the range every month. If you have the time and interest, get involved with shooting sports (USPSA or IDPA). A firearm is an inanimate object, it requires skill to use it effectively. 4. Be AWARE of your surroundings, listen to your gut, and AVOID conflict whenever you can.If you carry a firearm for protection, you need to be more aware of your surroundings than ever before. Allowing someone into close proximity (your personal space) can have deadly consequences if they're able to access your firearm before you can. Listen to your gut. Throw all the PC BS out the window. If your gut tells you someone doesn't look right, they probably aren't. If your "spidey sense" makes your arm hair stand up, it's time to start looking around for a way to avoid/evade, scan for additional threats, and look for cover if you can't avoid conflict. But YOU have to be in control of the distance. Standing in the open and waiting for a perpetrator is never a good idea. 5. Concealed Carry does NOT equate to POLICE POWERS.You have not suddenly been given the right or responsibility to enforce any law with or without your firearm (especially with). This is why they issue a license that goes in your wallet, not a badge on your shirt. As much as we'd like to make sure that we keep the peace, a concealed handgun is for personal defense of life, defense of an innocent 3rd party's life, and defense of life in preventing a forcible felony. Drawing your gun to chase the kid out of the store so you can stop her from stealing a candy bar is not justifiable. This is not to say that you can't intervene, but it shouldn't be done with deadly force. Also, see rule #2. Thanks to RandyP for this one. - chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted July 1, 2014 at 01:49 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 01:49 AM Awesome. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ddiver Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:24 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:24 AM Completely agree Chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianj - now in Kansas Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:39 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:39 AM THIS.For all that we've seen people talking about what they'd do or wouldn't do in some of the hypotheticals posted, anytime the firearm leaves the holster, your options diminish. And, when you pull the trigger, they diminish further. Last Resort. Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:46 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:46 AM good points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomG Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:06 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:06 AM I read the topic and thought, "oh geez, another self-proclaimed expert!" I was wrong. GREAT points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howie Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:35 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:35 AM Yup. Dead on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyTheKlam Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:44 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:44 AM Very good points! +1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcher969 Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:18 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:18 AM Very good advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadyRunner Posted July 1, 2014 at 05:13 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 05:13 AM +1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. 1911 Posted July 1, 2014 at 06:24 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 06:24 AM All points are spot on! Esp #2. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted July 1, 2014 at 11:31 AM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 11:31 AM Rule 1 does not apply if the property is being seized by force or threat of force. I would draw my gun to protect the siezure of my gun or guns. That's just me I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjh Posted July 1, 2014 at 12:59 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 12:59 PM Excellent review! Nice concise summary of concealed carry principles. Thanks, Chip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted July 1, 2014 at 01:15 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 01:15 PM Agree 100% wth all four points and I'd add a 5th - It DOESN'T empower you to be ANY sort of law enforcement agent bound to serve and protect the puiblic. Save the police work for the police and use your cell phone to call 911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:25 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:25 PM Good post. #3 is probably the one most ignored. I personally know of people who keep a firearm for home defense that they have NEVER fired it (not sure how they are confident it would even fire if needed) as well as some who carry (in my former home area of Texas) who NEVER practice shooting, let alone drawing. I know its fiction, but there is the telling scene in "The Godfather" where the somewhat-slow witted son is driving the Godfather and waiting for him at the car when the attempted assassination of the father takes place. Not being accustomed to the use of his gun he totally fumbles it out of panic and drops the gun, being of no help to his shot father. My guess is that the sudden rush of fear and adrenaline when suddenly confronted with a life or death situation could well produce the same result for many of us. And while most of us will never need to draw our gun in a real life situation, we can at least practice and try to mentally and physically prepare so that if needed, we can draw and aim with muscle memory. And I'll admit I should be doing much more of this myself. (And I'm amazed how much lint and dust get into a concealed carry gun, even when carried in a good holster. I need to remember to clean and lube the gun more often than I have been. But that's another reason I prefer a quality revolver, which will still work as needed even if not as pristine at it should be.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thornstein Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:35 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:35 PM Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEADFEED Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:38 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:38 PM Back to rule number one. Hypothetical situation; if you came to your expensive car in a parking lot, and found someone keying the car would you draw your weapon (not to use deadly force but to hold the person until the police got there) or would you just call 911, and let him go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glock23 Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:48 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 02:48 PM Pretty sure you shouldn't draw on someone who's keying your car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango7 Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:03 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:03 PM Rule 1 does not apply if the property is being seized by force or threat of force. I would draw my gun to protect the siezure of my gun or guns. That's just me I guess.Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joybulb Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:30 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:30 PM Back to rule number one. Hypothetical situation; if you came to your expensive car in a parking lot, and found someone keying the car would you draw your weapon (not to use deadly force but to hold the person until the police got there) or would you just call 911, and let him go?huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomG Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:43 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 03:43 PM Back to rule number one. Hypothetical situation; if you came to your expensive car in a parking lot, and found someone keying the car would you draw your weapon (not to use deadly force but to hold the person until the police got there) or would you just call 911, and let him go? NO!!! It's a car. You yell at them and call the police. ONLY if they threaten YOU do you draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeghl Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:19 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:19 PM Back to rule number one. Hypothetical situation; if you came to your expensive car in a parking lot, and found someone keying the car would you draw your weapon (not to use deadly force but to hold the person until the police got there) or would you just call 911, and let him go?Myself, I'd take their picture with my cell phone keying my car, then use that cell phone to call the cops. I can easily do that one handed. No need to guess where the other hand would be........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTX63 Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:20 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:20 PM Usually, a situation doesn't deteriorate up to the point you pull your gun; after you unholster is when you put you and everyone else. Into a corner with only two options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cola490 Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:24 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:24 PM You draw your gun to save your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeghl Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:24 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:24 PM Back to rule number one. Hypothetical situation; if you came to your expensive car in a parking lot, and found someone keying the car would you draw your weapon (not to use deadly force but to hold the person until the police got there) or would you just call 911, and let him go?Myself, I'd take their picture with my cell phone keying my car, then use that cell phone to call the cops. I can easily do that one handed. No need to guess where the other hand would be........ As I was just reminded, our cell phones take pretty good videos, not just snapshots. Which can be sent to any and all police depts, I would suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:58 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 04:58 PM Agree 100% wth all four points and I'd add a 5th - It DOESN'T empower you to be ANY sort of law enforcement agent bound to serve and protect the puiblic. Save the police work for the police and use your cell phone to call 911.^ That is a topic of a thread by itself. The Police that are empowered have no duty to serve and protect anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbear Posted July 1, 2014 at 05:31 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 05:31 PM Rule 1 does not apply if the property is being seized by force or threat of force. I would draw my gun to protect the siezure of my gun or guns. That's just me I guess.Exactly.Protecting my property is 50% of the reason I would carry a weapon.In my book thieves are only one step below a murderer or rapist. . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Harley Posted July 1, 2014 at 05:42 PM Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 05:42 PM 2. If you wouldn't do it without a gun, DON'T do it with a gun. If there are places you wouldn't go without a gun, don't go there with a gun. If there are people or situations you wouldn't approach without a gun, don't approach with a gun. Many people needlessly get into conflict because they think their gun can get them out of it. It's not a shield of invincibility. We often see these people on the wrong end of a court case, or being posthumously honored for their bravery. - chip Exactly! My philosophy is if I'm going somewhere and I think I might need a gun I just won't go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted July 1, 2014 at 06:17 PM Author Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 06:17 PM Glad you guys are enjoying the topic and suggestions. This is a great healthy discussion that needed to happen. We have some great rules for safe gun handling, but I thought it was time to put pen to paper (so to speak) and create some memorable rules on carrying. Rule 1 does not apply if the property is being seized by force or threat of force. I would draw my gun to protect the siezure of my gun or guns. That's just me I guess. If the property is being seized by force or threat of force, then you would be using force (your firearm) to protect your life against the threat of death or grave bodily harm. In your hypothetical, you would be protecting life, not property. Completely valid. Back to rule number one. Hypothetical situation; if you came to your expensive car in a parking lot, and found someone keying the car would you draw your weapon (not to use deadly force but to hold the person until the police got there) or would you just call 911, and let him go? When you draw your firearm, you're using deadly force. To clarify, Illinois actually does have exceptions for use of force in defense of property. The exception is when the property being taken is during the commission of a Forcible Felony (a felony that involves violence) but here as well, you would be protecting against grave bodily harm or death due to the violent nature of the crime. Someone keying your car is not a good reason to draw a firearm or to use one. Where no violence or threat of violence exists, introducing a firearm is an escalating factor and you could be seen as attributing to the aggression and turn a simple insurance claim into a legal, financial and moral nightmare. Think of it this way...if you saw someone keying an abandoned junk car that's missing a door, has no windows, and no engine...would you draw your gun to protect it? I'm afraid that's the way the courts would look at you drawing your gun to protect YOUR expensive car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip Posted July 1, 2014 at 06:19 PM Author Share Posted July 1, 2014 at 06:19 PM Agree 100% wth all four points and I'd add a 5th - It DOESN'T empower you to be ANY sort of law enforcement agent bound to serve and protect the puiblic. Save the police work for the police and use your cell phone to call 911. Randy, I think that's a GREAT 5th rule. "We're not the police. We don't carry badges, and we don't have a license or a responsibility to enforce laws". Good post. #3 is probably the one most ignored. I personally know of people who keep a firearm for home defense that they have NEVER fired it (not sure how they are confident it would even fire if needed) as well as some who carry (in my former home area of Texas) who NEVER practice shooting, let alone drawing. I know its fiction, but there is the telling scene in "The Godfather" where the somewhat-slow witted son is driving the Godfather and waiting for him at the car when the attempted assassination of the father takes place. Not being accustomed to the use of his gun he totally fumbles it out of panic and drops the gun, being of no help to his shot father. My guess is that the sudden rush of fear and adrenaline when suddenly confronted with a life or death situation could well produce the same result for many of us. And while most of us will never need to draw our gun in a real life situation, we can at least practice and try to mentally and physically prepare so that if needed, we can draw and aim with muscle memory. And I'll admit I should be doing much more of this myself. (And I'm amazed how much lint and dust get into a concealed carry gun, even when carried in a good holster. I need to remember to clean and lube the gun more often than I have been. But that's another reason I prefer a quality revolver, which will still work as needed even if not as pristine at it should be.) Practice may not make perfect, but it makes you a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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