Jump to content


Photo

SAF Considering Lawsuit to Force Faster CCL Process


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 mauserme

    Eliminating the element of surprise one bill at a time.

  • Admin
  • 22,049 posts
  • Joined: 20-February 09

Posted 29 August 2019 - 06:06 PM


banner.jpg

SAF CONSIDERING LAWSUIT TO FORCE FASTER CCL PROCESS IN ILLINOIS

 

BELLEVUE, WA The Second Amendment Foundation today revealed that it is considering legal action to force authorities in the State of Illinois to speed up the application and renewal process for concealed carry licenses, following a report by WMAQ in Chicago about the length of time citizens must wait for their licenses.

A right delayed is a right denied, said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. We are considering taking legal to end this abuse of process.

According to the report, it is taking from 120 to 140 days for the State Police to process license applications when it should be taking between 90 and 120 days. Currently, nearly 34,000 first-time and renewal CCL applications are being processed. The state has almost 301,000 CCL holders, and those who obtained their licenses in 2013, when the law first took effect, need to renew.

The Second Amendment Foundations successful lawsuit forced Illinois to pass their concealed carry license law, Gottlieb recalled. Now the slow process is discouraging people from exercising their rights.

The State Police Firearms Services Bureau reportedly has only five staffers designated to handle about 20,000 phone calls a week. Gottlieb said that is simply unacceptable in a state where revenue from CCL applications and renewals runs into the millions of dollars.

In neighboring Indiana, Gottlieb said after viewing the WMAQ report, authorities process licenses in less than 60 days and in Wisconsin, they do it in five days on the average.
This isnt about serving the public, he observed, its about discouraging the public. It doesnt take a degree in mathematics or economics to realize there is a growing demand for carry licenses, but the resources clearly are not being provided to meet that demand, and we think its deliberate.

This especially impacts gun owners in the Chicago area, where demand is the highest, Gottlieb stated. If the General Assembly and state police dont care to allocate the necessary resources to solve this problem, we may ask the courts to make them do it.

#2 gearsmithy

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,065 posts
  • Joined: 23-May 13

Posted 29 August 2019 - 06:26 PM

 


banner.jpg
 

SAF CONSIDERING LAWSUIT TO FORCE FASTER CCL PROCESS IN ILLINOIS

 

BELLEVUE, WA The Second Amendment Foundation today revealed that it is considering legal action to force authorities in the State of Illinois to speed up the application and renewal process for concealed carry licenses, following a report by WMAQ in Chicago about the length of time citizens must wait for their licenses.

A right delayed is a right denied, said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. We are considering taking legal to end this abuse of process.

According to the report, it is taking from 120 to 140 days for the State Police to process license applications when it should be taking between 90 and 120 days. Currently, nearly 34,000 first-time and renewal CCL applications are being processed. The state has almost 301,000 CCL holders, and those who obtained their licenses in 2013, when the law first took effect, need to renew.

The Second Amendment Foundations successful lawsuit forced Illinois to pass their concealed carry license law, Gottlieb recalled. Now the slow process is discouraging people from exercising their rights.

The State Police Firearms Services Bureau reportedly has only five staffers designated to handle about 20,000 phone calls a week. Gottlieb said that is simply unacceptable in a state where revenue from CCL applications and renewals runs into the millions of dollars.

In neighboring Indiana, Gottlieb said after viewing the WMAQ report, authorities process licenses in less than 60 days and in Wisconsin, they do it in five days on the average.
This isnt about serving the public, he observed, its about discouraging the public. It doesnt take a degree in mathematics or economics to realize there is a growing demand for carry licenses, but the resources clearly are not being provided to meet that demand, and we think its deliberate.

This especially impacts gun owners in the Chicago area, where demand is the highest, Gottlieb stated. If the General Assembly and state police dont care to allocate the necessary resources to solve this problem, we may ask the courts to make them do it.

 

 

Good, I've been waiting since April for my renewal application to be approved



#3 Chief Illiniwek

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts
  • Joined: 22-March 13

Posted 29 August 2019 - 08:04 PM

I hope they do and I hope they're successful.  


Liberals:  If the shoe doesn't fit, make everyone wear it.  -  Ann Coulter

 

IllinoisCarry Supporting Member

NRA Life Member

ISRA Member


#4 ragsbo

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,844 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 05

Posted 29 August 2019 - 08:32 PM

About time someone tried to get the state held accountable!



#5 soundguy

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 7,146 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 05

Posted 29 August 2019 - 08:40 PM

I support this.

 

When properly staffed, processing a renewal (or first time app) should not take long.

My renewal took less than 30 days early on.


Life is a cooperative venture... That's what makes it work.

#6 markthesignguy

    S39-(D)D.Harmon(F-) R77-(D)K.Willis(F-)

  • Members
  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: 11-July 08

Posted 29 August 2019 - 09:48 PM

They literally have NO excuse, THEY issued the CCL, so they know when it expires, and can anticipate THOSE loads upon

their system literally years in advance.

 

I've always believed that the FSB delays weren't incompetence but rather malfeasance.

 

And the state milking a cash cow.

 

perhaps that lawsuit should force revelations of the records of EXACTLY where THAT cash is going.


Sign, sign, everywhere a sign......
NRA Life Member
ISRA Life Member
 


#7 InterestedBystander

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 7,817 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 13

Posted 29 August 2019 - 09:58 PM

They literally have NO excuse, THEY issued the CCL, so they know when it expires, and can anticipate THOSE loads upon their system literally years in advance.

No kidding. We were discussing if the ISP was making any changes and preparing for the massive volume of first renewals here at IC I'd guess at least 1 to 2 years ago.
NRA Life Member; ISRA Member
FFL-IL Supporter
SAF Member; GOA Member
🇺🇸

#8 Plinkermostly

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 841 posts
  • Joined: 20-April 13

Posted 30 August 2019 - 02:15 AM

Any tie in to the shortened renewal dates?  Wasn't that part of another bill the legislature passed?



#9 InterestedBystander

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 7,817 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 13

Posted 30 August 2019 - 05:16 AM

Any tie in to the shortened renewal dates?  Wasn't that part of another bill the legislature passed?

Are you referring to the change that makes CCL renewal card expire dates 5 years from existing expire date instead of from the date the ISP processes it? JBP signed it 7/12 and the ISP has 6 months to implement.
NRA Life Member; ISRA Member
FFL-IL Supporter
SAF Member; GOA Member
🇺🇸

#10 Plinkermostly

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 841 posts
  • Joined: 20-April 13

Posted 30 August 2019 - 06:55 AM

Yep.  Thnx.



#11 sirflyguy

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,754 posts
  • Joined: 28-September 09

Posted 30 August 2019 - 08:03 AM

I applied for renewal of my Utah license on August 1. Had my new license in hand on August 12. Hardly cost anything. If I would have let it go 30 days past the expiration date, it only would have cost $7.50 extra. IL requires taking the training again if that happens. Good state vs. bad state. What a contrast.

United States Concealed Carry Association Certified Firearms Instructor

Defensive Firearms Coach (DFC) 

Fundamentals of Home Defense Handgun

Fundamentals of Concealed Carry
NRA-Certified Basic Pistol Instructor
NRA-Certified Personal Protection In the Home Instructor
NRA-Certified Personal Protection Outside the Home Instructor 
NRA-Certified Chief Range Safety Officer

IL FCCA Approved Instructor
http://www.mlftraining.com
https://www.facebook...ps/mlftraining/


#12 Jeffrey

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,536 posts
  • Joined: 10-January 08

Posted 30 August 2019 - 08:24 AM

 

 


banner.jpg
 

SAF CONSIDERING LAWSUIT TO FORCE FASTER CCL PROCESS IN ILLINOIS

 

BELLEVUE, WA The Second Amendment Foundation today revealed that it is considering legal action to force authorities in the State of Illinois to speed up the application and renewal process for concealed carry licenses, following a report by WMAQ in Chicago about the length of time citizens must wait for their licenses.

A right delayed is a right denied, said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb. We are considering taking legal to end this abuse of process.

According to the report, it is taking from 120 to 140 days for the State Police to process license applications when it should be taking between 90 and 120 days. Currently, nearly 34,000 first-time and renewal CCL applications are being processed. The state has almost 301,000 CCL holders, and those who obtained their licenses in 2013, when the law first took effect, need to renew.

The Second Amendment Foundations successful lawsuit forced Illinois to pass their concealed carry license law, Gottlieb recalled. Now the slow process is discouraging people from exercising their rights.

The State Police Firearms Services Bureau reportedly has only five staffers designated to handle about 20,000 phone calls a week. Gottlieb said that is simply unacceptable in a state where revenue from CCL applications and renewals runs into the millions of dollars.

In neighboring Indiana, Gottlieb said after viewing the WMAQ report, authorities process licenses in less than 60 days and in Wisconsin, they do it in five days on the average.
This isnt about serving the public, he observed, its about discouraging the public. It doesnt take a degree in mathematics or economics to realize there is a growing demand for carry licenses, but the resources clearly are not being provided to meet that demand, and we think its deliberate.

This especially impacts gun owners in the Chicago area, where demand is the highest, Gottlieb stated. If the General Assembly and state police dont care to allocate the necessary resources to solve this problem, we may ask the courts to make them do it.

 

 

Good, I've been waiting since April for my renewal application to be approved

 

March 21, still waiting...


...and justice for all

YOUR WALLET, the only place Democrats care to drill

#13 Palm22

    Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 81 posts
  • Joined: 03-January 14

Posted 30 August 2019 - 08:56 PM

What I don’t see the reasoning behind is the time it takes for renewals. A CCL holder is background checked practically every day....what else is there to check???

#14 InterestedBystander

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 7,817 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 13

Posted 30 August 2019 - 09:23 PM

What I dont see the reasoning behind is the time it takes for renewals. A CCL holder is background checked practically every day....what else is there to check???

Well...you've got 10s of thousands of apps and limited number of people processing them. So you just wind up in a pile until they get to your app. Pretty sure new and renewals use some additional databases i.e Federal that aren't used with the nightly checks. However, renewals do not have the LE objection period so that should be taking 30 days off the time.

Renewals should not take longer than new apps.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 31 August 2019 - 09:51 PM.

NRA Life Member; ISRA Member
FFL-IL Supporter
SAF Member; GOA Member
🇺🇸

#15 stockboyy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 196 posts
  • Joined: 02-April 14

Posted 31 August 2019 - 09:38 AM

FOID CARDS are system checked daily.
FCCL Original appl. is a full history back-ground check.
FCCL Renewal appl. is a history check most current 5-years.
Check / check /check / check....
Delay /delay / delay / delay....
Infringe / infringe /infringe / infringe !!!!!
Illinois /Illinois / Illinois / Illinois !!!!!

#16 Flynn

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,422 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 18

Posted 31 August 2019 - 09:20 PM

 

What I dont see the reasoning behind is the time it takes for renewals. A CCL holder is background checked practically every day....what else is there to check???

Well...you've got 10s of thousands of apps and limited number of people processing them. So you just wind up in a pile until they get to your app. Pretty sure new and renewals use sone additional databases i.e Federal that aren't used with the nightly checks. However, renewals do not have the LE objection period so that should be taking 30 days off the time.

Renewals should not take longer than new apps.

 

 

Other states don't appear to have this huge backlog and delay problem.


Anonymous leakers, leak anonymously about the anonymous leak.
 
—Anonymous

#17 domin8

    Banned!

  • Members
  • 7,299 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 13

Posted 01 September 2019 - 01:10 AM

FOID CARDS are system checked daily.FCCL Original appl. is a full history back-ground check.FCCL Renewal appl. is a history check most current 5-years.Check / check /check / check....Delay /delay / delay / delay....Infringe / infringe /infringe / infringe !!!!!Illinois /Illinois / Illinois / Illinois !!!!!

Marsha, Marsha, Marsha, Marsha....

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I'm either banned, going to be banned, or just returned from being banned. The truth hurts.

#18 domin8

    Banned!

  • Members
  • 7,299 posts
  • Joined: 27-June 13

Posted 01 September 2019 - 01:22 AM

What I dont see the reasoning behind is the time it takes for renewals. A CCL holder is background checked practically every day....what else is there to check???Well...you've got 10s of thousands of apps and limited number of people processing them. So you just wind up in a pile until they get to your app. Pretty sure new and renewals use some additional databases i.e Federal that aren't used with the nightly checks. However, renewals do not have the LE objection period so that should be taking 30 days off the time.
Renewals should not take longer than new apps.

• Nightly checks in other states are just to compare a list of CCL holders names to daily arrest records names. I'm not sure if it's the same in Illinois.

• When I last renewed my Utah permit I was in SLC. I walked into BCI without an appointment, took a number, waited to be called to the window, at the window told them what I was there for, made my payment, sat down and waited a few minutes longer, was called into the backroom, had my picture taken, chatted with the nice woman for about 2 minutes, was handed a new permit, and walked out the door. Total time was about 30 minutes.

It should be noted that Utah BCI operates on a net $0 profit for issuing permits. If the foresee a need for new equipment they ask the state to legislate an increase in fees. If they have a surplus of funds they ask the state to legislate a decrease if fees. We know Illinois is making money on the FCCL. They are profiting from a civil right. That's why the free is so high, and there's no justification in the law for the additional $150 nonresidents have to pay.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I'm either banned, going to be banned, or just returned from being banned. The truth hurts.

#19 SiliconSorcerer

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 3,022 posts
  • Joined: 11-March 12

Posted 02 September 2019 - 03:15 PM

I've been waiting since January, while I think it's BS, I have no "damages" since it's still valid and I'm getting free time. 

Foid is expired for months as well, also still under review, it can stay that way for life as the licenses really should be. 

 

People vote, that costs a lot more money, IF there's a license it should be free. 


You give peace a chance; I'll cover you if it doesn't work out.

 

Remington Historical Foundation - 501©3 - donate to me ;) 

NRA Benefactor Member

Gun Owners of America

Remington Society of America Life Member

Ruger Collectors Association Life Member

Texas Gun Collector Honorary Member

Colt Collectors Association Honorary Member

Ruger Society Honorary Member

etc etc etc

 


#20 junglebob

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 6,271 posts
  • Joined: 03-December 04

Posted 12 January 2020 - 02:38 PM

I applied for renewal of my Utah license on August 1. Had my new license in hand on August 12. Hardly cost anything. If I would have let it go 30 days past the expiration date, it only would have cost $7.50 extra. IL requires taking the training again if that happens. Good state vs. bad state. What a contrast.

 

My Utah license renewal came as quickly as yours as I recall.   They sock you a whole $25.25 for 5 years if you renew on time, as I did.  It costs that $7.25 extra for a renewal up to 1 year from expiration date. I guess if you apply for renewal over a year late you have to take the class again which is 3 or so hours as I recall.  I took mine here in Illinois.  

 

I'm not sure why this topic came up for me today.   Has SAF filed a lawsuit against Illinois State Police?

 

I think legislators in Illinois want to discourage us from protecting ourselves with a handgun.   They require a class to renew.  Utah doesn't.  They charge you the same for renewal as a new license.  Utah renewal costs less than half the fee for the original LTC.   Illinois as you said is a lot slower than Utah ,  Pa is even faster often the same day as you come in.

The only positive thing you can say about Illinois is they don't require prints and Utah does.  It only costs $13 for the Utah prints though.  Renewals don't require prints for Utah.

 

I got a letter the other day about Second Amendment Foundation membership.   I've got to do that.   It only costs $15 a year and they did help us get LTC in Illinois.


Edited by junglebob, 12 January 2020 - 02:40 PM.

Disarming the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them. George Mason

Though defensive violence will always be a sad necessity in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrong doers should dominate just men.  -  Augustine

Three school masacres have been stopped by civilians with firearms. Two with handguns and the third by a guy with a shotgun. (Pearl, Ms; Appalacian School of Law; Edinboro,Pa)


#21 ChicagoRonin70

    The Landlord of the Flies!

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 4,617 posts
  • Joined: 02-August 14

Posted 12 January 2020 - 11:47 PM

I've mentioned this before, but this is a deliberate tactic of "management by interference" by the the state of Illinois to throw up as many impediments as possible for people to get and maintain the unconstitutional "permission slips" to own and carry (otherwise known as "keep and bear") firearms in this state. The intent is to discourage as many people as possible, whether through frustration, fear of accidentally running afoul of the law, or being so confused by the process that they just decide it is not worth the hassle.

 

Imagine if this was done with voting, or immigration, or abortion. Wouldn't the same people who are behind Illinois onerous scheme for firearm ownership and carrying be up in arms (figuratively, of course) and screaming foul at the top of their lungs if it the kind of strictures that gun owners here have to deal with were put in place for those things?


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of free speech, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?
 
"One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest." —Me
 
"Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck. —Samurai proverb
 
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." —Robert Heinlein
 
"I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist." —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers
 
Posted Image     

#22 TomKoz

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,410 posts
  • Joined: 04-February 10

Posted 13 January 2020 - 12:09 AM

WHY hasn’t any IL law firm with deep pockets started a Class Action lawsuit against IL for the obvious ( and easily winnable) case against IL for their infractions??

I would be willing to be plaintiff #1 and do have standing (as all IL CCL holders do) !!!!?
Stay Alert ... Stay Alive !!
11Bravo Infantry
Yeah, Id die for my country, but Ive been trained to make the other guy die for his instead !

#23 Flynn

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,422 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 18

Posted 13 January 2020 - 02:11 AM

WHY hasn’t any IL law firm with deep pockets started a Class Action lawsuit against IL for the obvious ( and easily winnable) case against IL for their infractions??

I would be willing to be plaintiff #1 and do have standing (as all IL CCL holders do) !!!!?

 

The problem is it's not that easy of a case right now in the State and lower Federal courts, many of these lower courts still refuse to accept the the 2nd is a 1st class right, we need the SCOTUS to white glove slap these lower courts, hopefully the NYSRPA case opens the floodgates to prevailing in these lower courts that are still reluctant to honor and treat the 2nd like other rights instead of treating it as some 2nd class right.


Anonymous leakers, leak anonymously about the anonymous leak.
 
—Anonymous

#24 soundguy

    Member

  • Supporting Members Team
  • 7,146 posts
  • Joined: 27-February 05

Posted 13 January 2020 - 09:56 AM

Anyone whose instant check comes back instantly should be able to have an FOID or CCL renewed INSTANTLY.
Life is a cooperative venture... That's what makes it work.

#25 steveTA84

    Member

  • Members
  • 8,556 posts
  • Joined: 14-December 15

Posted 13 January 2020 - 10:59 AM

Anyone whose instant check comes back instantly should be able to have an FOID or CCL renewed INSTANTLY.


+1

#26 Gamma

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,561 posts
  • Joined: 29-December 13

Posted 13 January 2020 - 03:26 PM


 

According to the report, it is taking from 120 to 140 days for the State Police to process license applications when it should be taking between 90 and 120 days.

 

It should be taking no more than 9-12 minutes. Or SCOTUS gave the police what, 20 minutes for traffic stops? If the scheme they invent can't work within a reasonable time, it's not valid. It's unthinkable that they would treat drivers licenses or anything else this way.

 

Apply online, get approval number. Optional card arrives in the mail in a few days.


Edited by Gamma, 13 January 2020 - 03:28 PM.

Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#27 Flynn

    Member

  • Members
  • 3,422 posts
  • Joined: 20-August 18

Posted 14 January 2020 - 05:28 AM

Anyone whose instant check comes back instantly should be able to have an FOID or CCL renewed INSTANTLY.

 

The irony that you can get an instant approval to buy a firearm and have the firearm in your possession 72 hours, yet it takes them weeks/months to issue you a card that is essentially a permission slip to buy ammo and/or a reference number for police to run and see if you are prohibited or lawful person is not lost!


Anonymous leakers, leak anonymously about the anonymous leak.
 
—Anonymous

#28 mikew

    Member

  • Members
  • 5,491 posts
  • Joined: 17-December 04

Posted 14 January 2020 - 06:20 AM

Centre County, PA, 20 minutes.



#29 borgranta

    Member

  • Members
  • 6,221 posts
  • Joined: 29-June 12

Posted 21 January 2020 - 02:16 AM

If they sue the illegal misappropriation may be exposed publicly in court in fact the theives that are pocketing the money may find themselves in prison for public corruption.


The following referral code will grant provide a new User of Uber a free ride up to $15
donaldd4557ui

#30 TRJ

    Esse quam videri

  • Members
  • 9,057 posts
  • Joined: 05-January 14

Posted 21 January 2020 - 10:37 AM

If they sue the illegal misappropriation may be exposed publicly in court in fact the theives that are pocketing the money may find themselves in prison for public corruption.

The misappropriation is legal. The part that's bad for them is the optics of the misappropriation. Crying poor, no money to fund firearms services when that's patently false is the kind of thing that makes people who don't care about guns but do care about government effectiveness pay attention.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users