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Change to ISP CCL certificate


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#1 Molly B.

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 04:37 PM

The certificate instructors issue for the CCL course no longer says:
"In addition to this certificate the applicant should submit __________ ".

The ISP has issued an updated version of the certificate changing which documents of training to be submitted. Now it reads:
The Applicant provided documentation of the prior instruction by providing a certificate from________________ (Title of prior training certificate verified by instructor).

From the ISP - With the new certificate, the CCL applicant will only need to submit that and no other proof unless they are claiming a training exemption.
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#2 yyyz

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 04:56 PM

Does that mean that you have to submit your DD-214 if you are claiming the first 8 hours as a DD-214 exemption?

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#3 bobapunk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 04:59 PM

This means that everyone with counterfeit NRA Basic Pistol Certs are fine now, as long as their CCI signs an ISP certificate?

#4 spec5

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:02 PM

Does that mean that you have to submit your DD-214 if you are claiming the first 8 hours as a DD-214 exemption?


This is what the form says.

I verified the Applicant is an active, retired or honorably discharged member of the United States Armed Forces and should receive 8 hours of credit pursuant to Section 75(i) of the Act.

Here is the Certificate.
https://www.isp.stat...Certificate.pdf

Edited by spec5, 27 December 2013 - 05:04 PM.

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#5 Molly B.

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:24 PM

This means that everyone with counterfeit NRA Basic Pistol Certs are fine now, as long as their CCI signs an ISP certificate?

I would hope instructors would not accept phoney certs.
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#6 AuroraInstructor

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:28 PM

The certificate instructors issue for the CCL course no longer says:
"In addition to this certificate the applicant should submit __________ ".

The ISP has issued an updated version of the certificate changing which documents of training to be submitted. Now it reads:
The Applicant provided documentation of the prior instruction by providing a certificate from________________ (Title of prior training certificate verified by instructor).

From the ISP - With the new certificate, the CCL applicant will only need to submit that and no other proof unless they are claiming a training exemption.

Molly... Which is a "Training Exemption?" Would that be any prior credit OTHER than a military service 8 hour credit?

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#7 handyflyer

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:30 PM

What about those of us that have already done training? Do we now need to go back to our instructors and ask for a new certificate?

#8 Molly B.

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:35 PM

Applicants will submit only their ISP certificate unless they are claiming total exemption from training, in which case they will have to submit the training cert that exempts them from training.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#9 Molly B.

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:36 PM

What about those of us that have already done training? Do we now need to go back to our instructors and ask for a new certificate?


No
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#10 aka

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:37 PM

What about those of us that have already done training? Do we now need to go back to our instructors and ask for a new certificate?


I doubt that. It would be major undertaking for students and instructors to reissue all the certificates.

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#11 oldude

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:44 PM

Applicants will submit only their ISP certificate unless they are claiming total exemption from training, in which case they will have to submit the training cert that exempts them from training.


And what would that be? Is there any news on the 40hr MFT?

#12 Tango7

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:47 PM

Applicants will submit only their ISP certificate unless they are claiming total exemption from training, in which case they will have to submit the training cert that exempts them from training.


And what would that be? Is there any news on the 40hr MFT?


Last I heard they discounted more hours than the FCCA requires.
You will not 'rise to the occasion', you will default to your level of training - plan accordingly.

Despite their rallying around us at election time, honoring only 8 hours of Illinois' 40+ hour law enforcement class towards a 16 hour requirement shows the contempt that our elected officials hold us in.

#13 AuroraInstructor

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 05:52 PM

So I guess this puts to rest the whole issue of 'copies of permits' versus training certificates???

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#14 Molly B.

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:04 PM

So I guess this puts to rest the whole issue of 'copies of permits' versus training certificates???


Except the certificate states the instructor verified the prior training certificates
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#15 AuroraInstructor

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:20 PM

So I guess this puts to rest the whole issue of 'copies of permits' versus training certificates???


Except the certificate states the instructor verified the prior training certificates

But Molly..... The certificate merely states I verified prior training. Other than this forum, where has ISP advised me that a permit is not adequate proof of training?

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#16 tkroenlein

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:29 PM

Has the online application then been updated only to accept (or ask for) a single uploaded document?

#17 spec5

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:34 PM

So I guess this puts to rest the whole issue of 'copies of permits' versus training certificates???


Except the certificate states the instructor verified the prior training certificates

But Molly..... The certificate merely states I verified prior training. Other than this forum, where has ISP advised me that a permit is not adequate proof of training?

It does say verified prior training certificate.


The Applicant provided documentation of the prior instruction by providing a certificate from
(Title of prior training certificate verified by instructor)

Edited by spec5, 27 December 2013 - 06:36 PM.

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#18 Molly B.

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:41 PM



But Molly..... The certificate merely states I verified prior training. Other than this forum, where has ISP advised me that a permit is not adequate proof of training?

It does say verified prior training certificate.


The Applicant provided documentation of the prior instruction by providing a certificate from
(Title of prior training certificate verified by instructor)

There you go.
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#19 AuroraInstructor

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:44 PM

"Certificate" or "Application" (for Utah) is the same thing..... All of this gets a bit too loosey goosey for my liking. If I interpret the copy of the application for a Utah permit to be a training certificate because the Utah BCI says so, why not go one step further and accept the BCI's directive that the permit is as good as the application? This is not good.

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#20 dorvinion

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:45 PM

So, if we have the old certificate we still need to upload our proof of prior training docs?

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#21 David59

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 06:50 PM

ISP Website

For training completed to satisfy an out of state permit the applicant must provide evidence or the underlying training course.

Edited by David59, 27 December 2013 - 06:58 PM.


#22 David59

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 07:00 PM

Nowhere does it now say you need to have a out of state permit just training that satisfies the requirement to get one.

https://www.isp.stat...iningCredit.pdf

Edited by David59, 27 December 2013 - 07:24 PM.


#23 WtJen

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 07:46 PM

So, if we have the old certificate we still need to upload our proof of prior training docs?

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A very good question. Depending on how they set up the website, they may only allow one document to be submitted. If so, then the instructor's cert needs to be that one. Changes like this, when the training has been ongoing for months, makes me a bit nervous.

Edited by WtJen, 27 December 2013 - 07:47 PM.

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#24 bobapunk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 08:03 PM

This means that everyone with counterfeit NRA Basic Pistol Certs are fine now, as long as their CCI signs an ISP certificate?

I would hope instructors would not accept phoney certs.


The counterfeits we had were really well done. One brought in a photocopy of it, and if I did not recognize the instructor's name on it, I probably would not have questioned it.

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#25 whowe82

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 08:07 PM

But Molly..... The certificate merely states I verified prior training. Other than this forum, where has ISP advised me that a permit is not adequate proof of training?

It does say verified prior training certificate.


The Applicant provided documentation of the prior instruction by providing a certificate from
(Title of prior training certificate verified by instructor)

There you go.

Molly,

Does this mean that if my instructor verified my Utah permit that I will be able to use a scanned copy of my Utah permit?

#26 Double-J

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 08:26 PM

I uploaded all prior training including my certification of prior "Peace Officer" Status. (Which is worth toilet paper) They can sift through whatever they want to use to accept my application. The website took 'em all and I ain't removing 'um. They can "KMA"

#27 whowe82

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 08:29 PM

I uploaded all prior training including my certification of prior "Peace Officer" Status. (Which is worth toilet paper) They can sift through whatever they want to use to accept my application. The website took 'em all and I ain't removing 'um. They can "KMA"


I'm just wondering if I should be filing to get a copy of the red stamped Utah training cert..

#28 Molly B.

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:23 PM

I'm just wondering if I should be filing to get a copy of the red stamped Utah training cert..


Your instructor will need to see it.
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#29 whowe82

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:27 PM

I'm just wondering if I should be filing to get a copy of the red stamped Utah training cert..


Your instructor will need to see it.


Sorry for asking so many questions, but once my instructor has seen and verified it, does a copy have to be sent to ISP or will just a copy of the completed Illinois Cert be enough?

#30 bobapunk

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 09:28 PM


It does say verified prior training certificate.


The Applicant provided documentation of the prior instruction by providing a certificate from
(Title of prior training certificate verified by instructor)

There you go.

Molly,

Does this mean that if my instructor verified my Utah permit that I will be able to use a scanned copy of my Utah permit?


No, you must provide proof of training completion for the instructor to review.

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