Tribune solves mystery: Chicago's guns come from gun stores.

[mikew]

 

 

The proposed legislation below is to address the problem of people legally buying a bunch of guns, and then reporting them stolen, and then legally replenishing their cache, and then having the new firearms stolen (repeat as necessary).

 

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/99/HB/09900HB3532.htm

 

Amends the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. Provides that the Department of State Police shall revoke for one year the Firearm Owner's Identification Card of a card holder who reports to the local law enforcement agency his or her firearms lost or stolen 3 times within a 2-year period. Provides that any law enforcement agency that has knowledge that a card holder has reported his or her firearms lost or stolen 3 times within a 2-year period shall forthwith forward that information to the Department of State Police. Amends the Criminal Code of 2012. Provides that the sentence for attempt to acquire a firearm by use of a revoked Firearm Owner's Identification Card is a Class 4 felony.

 

 

That is from the 99th General Assembly, and the bill went to the Firearms Subcommittee to die.

 

The bill sponsor, Esther Golar, went to the district office in the sky.

[Skolnick]

That is from the 99th General Assembly, and the bill went to the Firearms Subcommittee to die.

 

Thank you for the update, but political posturing aside, it does show they are aware of what is going on.

 

Like I said in Post #31, there is no sincerity in any of this.

[ChicagoRonin70]

 

That being said, there is no sincerity in any of this. As RandyP noted in Post #3, they don't enforce the laws, and when they do, they plea bargain them down, and even then, they get out early.

 

From my stump rant -- I have more -- the problem is in deciding what to leave out ...

James Jordan was killed by two punks with a gun. One was out after serving 2 of 6 years for taking an axe to a teenage girl. He was released less than a month before the murder, if he had served 25 months of those 6 years instead of 24, Jordan might still be alive. The other punk was out after jumping bail FOR THE SECOND TIME on charges that he took a brick to the head of an old lady. The ONLY unusual thing about this incident was that the victim was the father of a famous basketball player.

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On 7/20/1993, Larry Eugene Phillips, Jr. and Emil Decebal Matasareanu robbed an armored car outside of a branch of FirstBank in Littleton, Colorado. In October, they were stopped for speeding. A search of their car found rifles, handguns, thousands of rounds of ammo, improvised explosive devices, body armor, and three different California license plates. They were sentenced to 100 days in the clink and a solid 3 years probation.

When released from prison, the guns, ammo, and body armor were RETURNED TO THEM.

Three and a half years later, after a string of bank and armor car robberies, they entered a branch office of the Bank of America. To find out what happened next, search for "North Hollywood Shootout".

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Willy Horton was sentenced to life without parole. Granted, he did not kill those people while on his Michael Dukakis furlough, but he was an example of a system that does let convicted killers out on the streets as a matter of policy.

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After Norman Mailer wrote the "The Executioner's Song", Jack Abbott (who was in prison for forgery, escape, bank robbery, and killing a fellow inmate) contacted Mailer and offered to write a book about prison life. Abbott's book was titled "In the Belly of the Beast". Mailer was so impressed by this fine young man, that he sponsored Abbott's parole and brought him to New York City where he became a celebrity in the literary circles that Mailer frequented.

Six weeks after release, Abbott killed Richard Adan with a knife.

Even after the murder, Abbott was openly supported by celebrities.

When it comes to ordinary citizens getting killed, liberals get more upset about the availably of guns than they do about the availability of parole. Although Mailer later admitted it was a mistake, at the time he was arrogant about his protege's fall from grace. "Art demands risks", he insisted.

Saturday Night Live did a skit mocking Mailer, and it is one of their best. You can see it at http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/prose-and-cons/n8838?snl=1. It's 3 minutes long, but do watch it all the way through -- and especially notice all the credits at the end.

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On June 20, 1972, Joseph Yandle and Edward Fielding murdered Joe Reppucci. Both were sentenced to life without parole. On October 11, 1995 Yandle was released from his sentence of life without parole.

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Jimmy Lee Smith was a convicted cop-killer (he died in 2007). He was sentenced to death for the cold-blooded, execution-style killing of an on-duty, uniformed, police officer named Ian Campbell. For those of you old enough to remember, the "Onion Field" murder was front page, movie material stuff. Even so, Smith was paroled in less than 21 years (and later, re-arrested for several other violations). If a death sentence for the execution-style killing an on-duty, uniformed, police officer won't keep you out of society for 21 years, what will?!

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Sarah Jane Moore tried to assassinate the President of the United States and still got parole after receiving a life sentence -- and she is not an exception!

Squeaky Fromme -- a whack job if there ever was one -- got a life sentence for attemping to assassinate the President of the United States. Afterward, she attacked a fellow inmate with a hammer, escaped from prison (was recaptured), and like Sara Jane Moore above, still received a parole!

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During the Nuremberg trials, Rudolf Hess was sentenced to life, but for more than a dozen years the US wanted to pardon the aging Nazi -- and I'm talking about a real honest to goodness, card-carrying Nazi.

The ONLY reason that Hess died in prison was that the Soviet Union had a more literal definition about what "life in prison" means.

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We live in a society where there is no certainty that life without parole really means life without parole. We live in a society where a death sentence for a high-profile execution of an on-duty, uninformed police officer does not preclude parole in less than 21 years.

We live in a society where "Truth in Sentencing" -- meaning you will serve at least 85% of your time -- is a radical concept.

 

 

Where is thus being published or uploaded at? I would like to have a reference to it for something I am working on regarding the subject of criminal actions/offenders versus tools used being the problem/to blame. This would be very helpful.

[McCroskey]

This is a bizarre story. Who straw purchases a Nagant revolver? My guess is they bought the cheapest thing they could find and SSG didn't have any Lorcins or similar garbage. I'm surprised the shooter would know how to eject the shells, much less find the ammo for it... I've seen it at A2 and that's it.

[Skolnick]

Where is thus being published or uploaded at? I would like to have a reference to it for something I am working on regarding the subject of criminal actions/offenders versus tools used being the problem/to blame. This would be very helpful.

 

Nowhere in particular. It has been assembled by me over the years.

 

Just Google the names that I provided and read their stories. Also Google "truth in sentencing" and "North Hollywood Shootout" (give yourself an hour to pursue what is published on the North Hollywood Shootout). Check out the link I provided in the Norman Mailer section. Yes, it's an Eddie Murphy spoof, but it does show what was going on at the time.

 

Anyone wants to copy my words, in part or total, has my permission.

[RandyP]

I started reloading 32-20 cases for my Nagant because the 'real' surplus -38R has been pretty sparse of late. I agree it's an odd choice for a straw buy.

[BrowningHP]

Funny thing is, there are only about 10 gun stores in the chicago area anyway. Of course they mostly come from those 10...

[mikew]

Here's the report:

 

https://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/mayor/Press%20Room/Press%20Releases/2017/October/GTR2017.pdf

[357]

I've known Donald for about 20 years and you need to show a FOID card to even get close to the display case. I'm sure these "journalists" are twisting his words and have an agenda and are blaming him for the actions of criminals.

 

Sales have really gone up the last few years thanks to the antis and the panics they have induced.

 

"The “time to crime” statistics were also startling. According to the report, Suburban Sporting Goods had the lowest average time to crime numbers of any of the stores in the top 10, “indicating that a portion of direct sales went to straw purchasers and firearm traffickers.”

 

Why don't you track the criminals and prosecute straw purchasers instead of giving them probation and ask them about time to crime. The dealers have done nothing wrong and followed the laws.

 

"The best we can"

 

So the best he can is not good enough for these "journalists" with their "crime guns" propaganda making it seem like the dealers are doing something wrong and selling "crime guns." All you are doing is pushing the agenda and SB1657. You don't ask Ford when someone uses their car drunk to kill someone for time to crime and DUI. Why are you blaming the dealers for the actions of criminals?

 

"Beltrame was indicted in 1999 in Project Surefire, an unusual federal investigation into straw purchasing that culminated with criminal charges against eight owners and employees at five gun shops."

 

Not surprised that the Clinton administration was out to get gun dealers. Any proof that they allowed straw purchases? They would have been found guilty if the allegations were true.

 

"During Beltrame’s weeklong trial, four undercover Chicago police officers testified that they made illegal firearms purchases at Suburban Sporting Goods. During late summer and fall of 1998, the officers entered the store in pairs, one posing as a street tough and the other as a straw purchaser, according to testimony."

 

Again the CAGE unit out to get him and if they had proved their allegations he would have been found guilty.

 

"Months after he was cleared in that case, however, Beltrame again came under fire, this time from the state’s attorney’s office, which accused him in a lawsuit of selling illegal, inexpensive revolvers known as “Saturday Night Specials.”

 

The county out to get him this time. Selling guns that are inexpensive is not illegal and doesn't make them "Saturday night specials"

 

"In 2004, the store was again in the news after being identified in a report by a gun reform group as one of the top sellers of crime guns in the nation."

 

We're supposed to believe biased reports from gun control groups. They are selling legal guns not crime guns. Why are you blaming them and not the criminals who get probation and as low as 5 years for murder? They would think twice about murdering someone if we still had the death penalty. Why wasn't he charged with first degree murder but allowed to plead down to conspiracy? And 14 years for murder which is nothing and he will serve even less and he doesn't care and will do it again.

 

"Philip Cook, professor of public policy at Duke University, agreed. He said that when a business expands, it’s even more important to safeguard against becoming a supply channel for criminals."

 

How are they becoming a supply channel for criminals when they cannot even buy guns legally and how can they safeguard against it when they are following all the laws?

 

“I think there is a special obligation when you become a big player to have all those kinds of security devices in place,” said Cook, who studies gun data in Chicago."

 

They have all the security devices in place and that's not the problem.

 

"Walter Katz, the deputy chief of staff of public safety for Mayor Rahm Emanuel, said Suburban Sporting Goods’ marketing plan was “so successful that criminals on the street know all about it and are flocking” to the store."

 

They don't have a marketing plan and their website has been the same for years. Criminals cannot flock there because they're ineligible to buy guns legally and cannot even enter the store because they don't have a FOID card. Also their prices are not the cheapest. He legally cannot stop people who are eligible to buy a gun.

 

“If you know there is a violence problem on the West Side of Chicago … you would think if you were a gun shop owner you would be doing everything you know how to make sure your sales were on the up and up,” Katz said."

 

They made sure the sales were on the up and up by following the laws. What else can they do? Discriminate against buyers who are African-American? Track the buyers and their activities and links to criminals? Isn't that the job of the police.

[Raw Power]

I thought the gun fairy is where guns came from?

[richp]

Hi,

 

Second City Cop suggests today that these numbers should have been analyzed in terms of the percentage of total guns sold by these businesses.

 

But then that would require an objective approach to the issue, wouldn't it?

 

FWIW.

 

Rich Phillips

[Xwing]

Propaganda.

 

Why doesn't the Tribune investigate why Ward - a vicious felon with multiple convictions, and a known gang member, was released from prison.

 

Because it doesn't fit the narrative.

 

 

I bet a sweeping investigation would show that nearly seven eighths of criminals committing recent crimes in Chicago were recently released from just 10 Chicagoland incarceration facilities.

 

Trying to build support for SB1657 is what's going on in this article.

 

Yes, it's blatant propaganda. That's what happens when anti-gun democrats own all the mass media sources. They tell a partial story (which while true), doesn't actually explain the true rationale. But if they tell only part of the story, they can blame gun stores and legal gun owners, instead of felons and straw purchasers.

[markthesignguy]

So many times in the legislature during discussions / testimony in the chamber I have heard the phrase: "in the Tribune today".

 

Every time I just want to SCREAM!!!!

 

We elected them to THINK, not to be herded by the Tribune's editorial board and whatever agenda that small group of unelected parasites dreams up.

[mikew]

 

And if we let them succeed in closing the 10 closest guns stores, it will then be the next 10 closest, and the 10 after that until there aren't any left.

 

That's one of the most sinister parts of SB1657.

 

The law of unintended consequences will prevail.

 

Those 10 stores will not close, although the ones in IL may be impacted.

 

It's all the smaller FFLs in Illinois that will close up shop, especially the ones for which guns are not a side line of merchandise.

[mikew]

The consequence of the consequence could be a federal suit against the part in 922a that prevents you from buying a handgun in another state.

[InterestedBystander]

The consequence of the consequence could be a federal suit against the part in 922a that prevents you from buying a handgun in another state.

Is there any reason for that to exist? Decades ago getting information and pushing paper around interstate, I can see the difficulty in getting approvals, but not now with the electronic systems.

[Bo69]

A Nagant? Really?

They will want a revolver ban. only one musket ball allowed

[C0untZer0]

We elected them to THINK, not to be herded by the Tribune's editorial board and whatever agenda that small group of unelected parasites dreams up.

 

 

I don't think the politicians like Harmon and Willis create bills from what they read in the papers, I think the writers collude with politicians whom they are aligned with ideologically.

 

Its shocking how many people in the media work on political campaigns but still project the facade that they're somehow fair and balanced. I think most of them ceased "reporting" news long ago and devolved into advocacy. I think they got together with Don Harmon and some gun control activists and planned how best to support the push to license dealers with Tribune articles. I envision them having meetings where they decide what the articles should say and when they should be published to have maximum effect.

 

I know it sounds tin-foil-hat~ish but this story is soooo lopsided, so lacking in logic and timed right when people like Drury, Moylon and Willis are making their push for more gun control. It is a propaganda piece.

[Lou]

 

We elected them to THINK, not to be herded by the Tribune's editorial board and whatever agenda that small group of unelected parasites dreams up.

 

I don't think the politicians like Harmon and Willis create bills from what they read in the papers, I think the writers collude with politicians whom they are aligned with ideologically.

 

Its shocking how many people in the media work on political campaigns but still project the facade that they're somehow fair and balanced. I think most of them ceased "reporting" news long ago and devolved into advocacy. I think they got together with Don Harmon and some gun control activists and planned how best to support the push to license dealers with Tribune articles. I envision them having meetings where they decide what the articles should say and when they should be published to have maximum effect.

 

I know it sounds tin-foil-hat~ish but this story is soooo lopsided, so lacking in logic and timed right when people like Drury, Moylon and Willis are making their push for more gun control. It is a propaganda piece.

+100 for the above.

Newspapers should be reporting the actual news and leave advocacy to advocates.

[mikew]

 

I don't think the politicians like Harmon and Willis create bills from what they read in the papers, I think the writers collude with politicians whom they are aligned with ideologically.

The anti-gun lobbyists "assist" in the creation of the bills.

This is nothing new.

 

Both sides do it. Both sides of every issue.

In every state and in Congress.

[drumgod]

So, if the gun was sold just four months prior to it being used in a murder, then this is a no brainer. It's called a straw purchase by someone that is able to buy a firearm legally. HELLO!!

 

The straw purchaser should be able to be found relatively quickly. They should be charged as an accessory to murder, PERIOD. But as we all know they will get a slap on the wrist and go out and do it again.

 

Hey LIbune, how about putting the blame where it belongs. That would be the Judicial system in Cook county. It's not rocket science and I get it, it doesn't fit your agenda.

 

+1 this exactly. They neglect to mention that the gun was either stolen from the original purchaser or transferred illegally after it left the store. This has nothing to do with gun stores and everything to do with criminals.

[markthesignguy]

And the drumbeats from the paid shills starts in support of SB1657.

Tribune and Glanton.

Remember her when she starts sniffing around us again.
I remember her sniffing around the Chucks / Brady @ Riverdale brouhaha one summer.

Was suspicious of her back then, then she went full on grabber.

Now this:

 

Smart, law-abiding gun owners understand the importance of keeping weapons out of the hands of criminals. These citizens want to be able to carry their guns for self-protection, hunting and competitions without being tarnished by criminals who are willing to shoot someone down on the street in a drug deal or a petty disagreement.

 

This time, Illinoisans should stand together tell the NRA to butt out. We must let the NRA know that only people who respect the law should be allowed to obtain a gun in Illinois.

 

And thus she shows her unclad hienie, because her targets (gun dealers) are the first line of defense against exactly that.

 

And they have become effective enough that we see plenty of news of guns taken in rail burglaries, as well as building vehicular ram and grab burglaries of gun stores.

 

From Second City Cop:

 

Neither the Tribune, nor the ABC report, list the number of guns that are stolen - just that 60% come from "out-of-state," meaning that any Illinois law will be ineffective. In fact, the the Admin Fax Message board is filled with Stolen Weapon notices - non-LEO stolen guns - along with yet another stolen FBI weapon last week. The feds (FBI, ATF, other agencies) probably account for one-percent of the stolen guns circulating in Chicago, they lose that many. heck, how many guns disappeared from that Englewood rail yard? And how many times?

 

----------------------

 

Shore Galleries is one of the places that most departments in northeastern Illinois recommend to their officers to buy duty weapons. We've bought at a few of those places, and we're certain they move many tens-of-thousands of guns a year. How about instead of listing how many "crime guns" are recovered in Chicago from these "point of origin" stores, the media prints how many guns total AREN'T recovered anywhere near a crime scene? That would flip the entire narrative on its head - less than 10%? Less than 5%?

How many guns from GAT Guns end up recovered in Chicago as a ratio to how many they sold? Less than 1%? While we'd love to see it as close to zero percent as possible, the fact is that if 99% or even 95% of guns aren't being used criminally, it looks to us like the system is working and may need some small tweaks.

 

No stab at the cops here, but judges slapping straw buyers on the wrist might have something to do with it.

GRANTED, to US a Felony is devastating - and the straw buyer in mind while not doing hard time, will never again lawfully purchase a firearm, but I suspect there are people with a different metric in mind.

[C0untZer0]

 

The anti-gun lobbyists "assist" in the creation of the bills.

This is nothing new.

Both sides do it. Both sides of every issue.

In every state and in Congress.

 

No but my point is, the anti-gunners bring their allies in the media in on the conversations and talk about what message they want portrayed in articles and the best timing for when they should be published to help a bill’s chance for passage.

[Skolnick]

No stab at the cops here, but judges slapping straw buyers on the wrist might have something to do with it.

GRANTED, to US a Felony is devastating - and the straw buyer in mind while not doing hard time, will never again lawfully purchase a firearm, but I suspect there are people with a different metric in mind.

 

 

Got a new one for my stump speech ...

 

In December of 1973, Torrance Epps beat his wife and she left him for sanctuary in her grandparents' home.

After a week of searching, on 12/3/1973, Torrance Epps murdered his wife and the two grandparents who were sheltering her. The next year, Epps was sentenced to thirty (30) years in prison for the three (3) murders.

Fourteen (14) years later, in 1988, he was paroled, but jumped parol. Eight (8) years later, in 1996, he was recaptured. He was paroled again on 2003.

From 1973 to 2003 is 30 years -- apparently the eight (8) years as a fugitive were not to be held against him.

On 1/23/2017, Epps took a gun and murdered Tiandra Johnson on the suspicion that she took money out of his room.

He was charged with first-degree murder, first-degree assault, armed criminal action and gun felony charges.

He plea-bargained it down to second-degree murder, assault, two gun charges and two counts of armed criminal action -- and yesterday, he got eighteen (18) years for killing his fourth (4th) human being.

As for slapping the wrists of straw buyers, here's one ...

On 4/13/2017, Simone Mousheh pleaded guilty to the illegal transfer of firearms in exchange for 12 months probation and 15 days in the Cook County sheriff's work alternative program. She was also ordered to pay $679 in fines.

During a six-month period, authorities said, Mousheh purchased four weapons for $600 each and sold two to a Hoffman Estates man with Chicago gang ties.