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#1 lrb1200

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 04:39 AM

       I am hearing mixed information coming from instructors of the 16 hour training class regarding a loaded weapon in a vehicle.

 

       One states  a loaded weapon in the vehicle if not on your person, such as console, door pocket..etc. is illegal transport of a loaded weapon, carry permit or not.

 

       Another states the above is perfectly legal with a carry permit.

 

       Your knowledge on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

        Leonard



#2 Sweeper13

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 04:55 AM

My opinion....You will get exact info from others soon. like statute. 

 

One states  a loaded weapon in the vehicle if not on your person, such as console, door pocket..etc. is illegal transport of a loaded weapon, carry permit or not.

 

1. You have a CCL you are OK

2. FOID only..your in trouble.

 

Let the comments begin.



#3 Hatchet

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 05:09 AM

3rd definition in the act.

 

 

 

"Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handgun carried on or about a person completely or mostly concealed from view of the public or on or about a person within a vehicle.

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#4 lockman

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 05:33 AM

3rd definition in the act.
 

 
 
"Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handgun carried on or about a person completely or mostly concealed from view of the public or on or about a person within a vehicle.


The key in the above cite is: ‘on or about’ the person. That about part covers off body carry. For example, putting in a briefcase, purse or backpack. Any place of concealment located about you body. The UUW case law set that definition of ‘about’ as anywhere in the passenger compartment of a vehicle for a loaded firearm.





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#5 lrb1200

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 06:45 AM

Gentlemen, thank you all for your time and prompt response.

You have been most helpful.

 

Leonard



#6 Odinson

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 07:15 AM

Now where to keep it in the vehicle is the issue. In the car I just handed down, I had a perfect glove box draw. Not even full extension of arm, flip glove box latch, draw from clipped in holster. New car glove box has nowhere to clip and is a bit of a reach. I've got it in a holster in the driver door pocket - you can barely see the top of the magazine if I am not in the car but nowhere to clip there either. Not happy with this arrangement. I will probably have to mount a magnet under the driver dash - magnets (with a little tape on them so pistol finish is not scratched) from an old tape drive computer server are small and amazingly powerful.



#7 Hap

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 08:00 AM

Sure would be nice to have suitable compartments built into cars rather than tacked on.


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#8 domin8

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 11:28 AM

I think the Illinois Supreme Court ruling issued in 2011 in People v Holmes would help clarify this, too. Transport is okay in the passenger compartment as long as no occupants in thre car can access the firearm. This case specifically referenced Holmes as the sole occupant in the car, and a gun was stored in the center console of the back seat of his car. Police indicated he was not able to access the firearm. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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#9 Bubbacs

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 11:30 AM

Can’t remember the name but there is a holster that wraps around the steering wheel column and has a pouch like holder for the firearm.
A flap which can be left open would give direct access to the grip of the firearm.
The Velcro flap can be easily slapped up to cover the entire firearm.

The “on or about” would be covered and the “out of plain view” would be covered also.

Adjustable straps hook UNDER the dash and then around the column.
I used one and it did not sag at all, very stable.

It’s here somewhere and I’ll try to get a picture up.

#10 borgranta

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 11:58 AM

It is concerning that some instructors clearly do not understand the laws especially since they are supposed to train the students how to abide by the law that they clearly do not understand.  How many other aspects of the law are they mistaen about.  I hope no students end up being in legal jeopardy due to following instructions on the law from the wrong trainer.


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#11 Odinson

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 01:04 PM

I think the Illinois Supreme Court ruling issued in 2011 in People v Holmes would help clarify this, too. Transport is okay in the passenger compartment as long as no occupants in thre car can access the firearm. This case specifically referenced Holmes as the sole occupant in the car, and a gun was stored in the center console of the back seat of his car. Police indicated he was not able to access the firearm. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

But this would be for FOID transport, not for a CCL holder.



#12 Odinson

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 01:05 PM

Can’t remember the name but there is a holster that wraps around the steering wheel column and has a pouch like holder for the firearm.
A flap which can be left open would give direct access to the grip of the firearm.
The Velcro flap can be easily slapped up to cover the entire firearm.

The “on or about” would be covered and the “out of plain view” would be covered also.

Adjustable straps hook UNDER the dash and then around the column.
I used one and it did not sag at all, very stable.

It’s here somewhere and I’ll try to get a picture up.

Thanks man, that might be perfect. I'll try to look too. I was sure I was done buying holsters...



#13 MagSlap

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 01:20 PM

 

Can’t remember the name but there is a holster that wraps around the steering wheel column and has a pouch like holder for the firearm.
A flap which can be left open would give direct access to the grip of the firearm.
The Velcro flap can be easily slapped up to cover the entire firearm.

The “on or about” would be covered and the “out of plain view” would be covered also.

Adjustable straps hook UNDER the dash and then around the column.
I used one and it did not sag at all, very stable.

It’s here somewhere and I’ll try to get a picture up.

Thanks man, that might be perfect. I'll try to look too. I was sure I was done buying holsters...

 

 

No...You are NEVER done buying holsters.  

 

We may have to start a thread call "Show Us your Holster Drawer"...



#14 Odinson

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 01:35 PM

 

 

Can’t remember the name but there is a holster that wraps around the steering wheel column and has a pouch like holder for the firearm.
A flap which can be left open would give direct access to the grip of the firearm.
The Velcro flap can be easily slapped up to cover the entire firearm.

The “on or about” would be covered and the “out of plain view” would be covered also.

Adjustable straps hook UNDER the dash and then around the column.
I used one and it did not sag at all, very stable.

It’s here somewhere and I’ll try to get a picture up.

Thanks man, that might be perfect. I'll try to look too. I was sure I was done buying holsters...

 

 

No...You are NEVER done buying holsters.  

 

We may have to start a thread call "Show Us your Holster Drawer"...

 

At least I'm sure I'm done buying firearms.

 

Not sure if the steering wheel holster will work for me. I have to see where my steering wheel airbag is located - would I be a firearm related fatality if my airbag threw my pistol into my spine?



#15 Euler

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 02:14 PM

At least I'm sure I'm done buying firearms.
...


Odinson declares:
  • he has run out of money forever,
  • he already owns one of every firearm in existence, or
  • his life now consists simply of waiting for the end to come.

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#16 mauserme

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 02:32 PM

 

I think the Illinois Supreme Court ruling issued in 2011 in People v Holmes would help clarify this, too. Transport is okay in the passenger compartment as long as no occupants in thre car can access the firearm. This case specifically referenced Holmes as the sole occupant in the car, and a gun was stored in the center console of the back seat of his car. Police indicated he was not able to access the firearm. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

But this would be for FOID transport, not for a CCL holder.

 


People v Holmes partially built upon Diggins, in which the Illinois Supreme Court found that a front center console is a case for the purpose of legal transport of an unloaded firearm. It's true that Holmes dealt specifically with a firearm located in a rear armrest, but it isn't accurate to say that Holmes precludes accessability since the front console certainly is accessible and Holmes says nothing to put Diggins in question. Holmes, instead, adds the rear armrest to our understanding of what constitutes an acceptable case for transport.  Officer Gonzalez, in fact, testified "that defendant's driver's seat was "leaned back very far" and that defendant would have access to the armrest".

Also, the responding officers and Holmes himself spoke to the presence of a passenger in the vehicle. The presence of that passenger wasn't relevant to the case. 

But I agree with Odinson that this has nothing to do with carry.



#17 Odinson

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 03:16 PM

 

At least I'm sure I'm done buying firearms.
...


Odinson declares:
  • he has run out of money forever,
  • he already owns one of every firearm in existence, or
  • his life now consists simply of waiting for the end to come.

 

Every time I try to get away they keep sucking me back in.

 

1. New car, 1 crotch goblin still in university, remodeling projects that seem to feed on themselves.

2. I do have a few for all of my interests, but I was thinking about that double barreled .22 magnum revolver for some reason, damnit.

3. Thought that was true until recent biopsy results came back with clear borders. Now I have to deal with #1...



#18 Mr. Fife

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 04:54 PM

I keep mine within lunging distance. Would suck if I was a lefty and had to argue that in court [\p]
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#19 Bubbacs

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Posted 31 July 2019 - 06:43 PM

Gum Creek Customs

It is pretty cool
Take a look see
Use google to locate as Im on a small flip phone!


Got it: http://www.gumcreekcustoms.com/

Edited by Bubbacs, 31 July 2019 - 06:44 PM.


#20 Odinson

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 05:49 AM

Gum Creek Customs

It is pretty cool
Take a look see
Use google to locate as Im on a small flip phone!


Got it: http://www.gumcreekcustoms.com/

OK. Maybe one more holster. Thanks for the info B.



#21 FSA

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 05:55 AM

From Longman Dictionary of Contemporary Englishon/about your personformal if you have something on or about your person, you have it in your pockets or attached to you


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#22 lockman

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 06:02 AM

From Longman Dictionary of Contemporary Englishon/about your personformal if you have something on or about your person, you have it in your pockets or attached to you



If that were the definition used by the courts, there would be thousands and thousands of UUW convictions avoided just by that definition alone.


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#23 skinnyb82

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 08:14 AM

The only dictionary that matters in this case is Black's. Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
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#24 Quiet Observer

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 01:40 PM

AS noted by lockman and skinnyb82, it is the legal definition that applies.  

on or about

adverb approximately, in the general time frame, in the immediate vicinity of, in the neighborrood of, more or less, somewhere about

Burton's Legal Thesaurus, 4E. Copyright © 2007 by William C. Burton. Used with permission of The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

https://legal-dictio...com/on or about

 

I could not find Black's definition on line, but the above should clarify.  In this case it is immediate vicinity.  



#25 chevsuz12

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 10:40 AM

when driving, I always have my firearm in a pocket holster that is placed firmly between my seat and center console.  I have been stopped multiple times over the years, and always notify the LEO that i have a ccl and tell him the location of the gun.  This has never been a problem for me.  The officer usually says "thats fine, just don't make any sudden movements", or something along the lines of "as long as it stays there that is fine".


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#26 WitchDoctor

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 12:19 PM

 

 

At least I'm sure I'm done buying firearms.
...


Odinson declares:
  • he has run out of money forever,
  • he already owns one of every firearm in existence, or
  • his life now consists simply of waiting for the end to come.

 

Every time I try to get away they keep sucking me back in.

 

1. New car, 1 crotch goblin still in university, remodeling projects that seem to feed on themselves.

2. I do have a few for all of my interests, but I was thinking about that double barreled .22 magnum revolver for some reason, damnit.

3. Thought that was true until recent biopsy results came back with clear borders. Now I have to deal with #1...

 

Glad to hear that.  Thinking about college for the youngster too. She could be a plumber....


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#27 Neumann

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Posted 25 August 2019 - 10:57 AM

I think the Illinois Supreme Court ruling issued in 2011 in People v Holmes would help clarify this, too. Transport is okay in the passenger compartment as long as no occupants in thre car can access the firearm. This case specifically referenced Holmes as the sole occupant in the car, and a gun was stored in the center console of the back seat of his car. Police indicated he was not able to access the firearm. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

The question was whether the unloaded firearm was properly enclosed in a console, rather than a closed box or case. The console, box or case need not be locked.



#28 domin8

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 12:22 AM


I think the Illinois Supreme Court ruling issued in 2011 in People v Holmes would help clarify this, too. Transport is okay in the passenger compartment as long as no occupants in thre car can access the firearm. This case specifically referenced Holmes as the sole occupant in the car, and a gun was stored in the center console of the back seat of his car. Police indicated he was not able to access the firearm. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


The question was whether the unloaded firearm was properly enclosed in a console, rather than a closed box or case. The console, box or case need not be locked.

The law is so vague that the console qualified as a case. Thre final ruling did go as far as discuss how 1 of the 2 officers who pulled over Holmes said the firearm was not accessible from the driver's seat, and therefore didn't violate with the transport law.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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#29 mauserme

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 05:06 AM

 

I think the Illinois Supreme Court ruling issued in 2011 in People v Holmes would help clarify this, too. Transport is okay in the passenger compartment as long as no occupants in thre car can access the firearm. This case specifically referenced Holmes as the sole occupant in the car, and a gun was stored in the center console of the back seat of his car. Police indicated he was not able to access the firearm. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


The question was whether the unloaded firearm was properly enclosed in a console, rather than a closed box or case. The console, box or case need not be locked.

The law is so vague that the console qualified as a case. Thre final ruling did go as far as discuss how 1 of the 2 officers who pulled over Holmes said the firearm was not accessible from the driver's seat, and therefore didn't violate with the transport law.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 


More accurately, the law is intentionally worded broadly enough to allow many forms of a "case" to satisfy the transport exemption.  This is consistent with the legislative intent offered by Senator (now Senate President) Cullerton during floor debate and with the Illinois Supreme Court's finding in Bruner.

 

 



#30 domin8

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 08:56 AM

I think the Illinois Supreme Court ruling issued in 2011 in People v Holmes would help clarify this, too. Transport is okay in the passenger compartment as long as no occupants in thre car can access the firearm. This case specifically referenced Holmes as the sole occupant in the car, and a gun was stored in the center console of the back seat of his car. Police indicated he was not able to access the firearm. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


The question was whether the unloaded firearm was properly enclosed in a console, rather than a closed box or case. The console, box or case need not be locked.

The law is so vague that the console qualified as a case. Thre final ruling did go as far as discuss how 1 of the 2 officers who pulled over Holmes said the firearm was not accessible from the driver's seat, and therefore didn't violate with the transport law.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


More accurately, the law is intentionally worded broadly enough to allow many forms of a "case" to satisfy the transport exemption. This is consistent with the legislative intent offered by Senator (now Senate President) Cullerton during floor debate and with the Illinois Supreme Court's finding in Bruner.


So accurately, that a McDonald's food bag qualifies. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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