How do I give a new gun as a gift.

[cola490]

I want to give a gun as a gift. The person has a FOID, would it be best to take them to GS and have them fill out paperwork and just pay for it, or should I buy it and then do a private transfer. I would prefer the latter so it could be a surprise.

[cybermgk]

IANAL or expert. But, purchasing, then doing a transfer, with appropriate wait time, FOID check on ISP, etc, is fine AFAIK.

[mic6010]

Intent matters. If you're buying a gun intending it to be for someone else and filling out the 4473 saying the gun is for yourself you just committed a crime. That's called a straw purchase.

That's not the same thing as you buying a gun for yourself and then deciding to sell it off for whatever reason or give it away.

 

There's a specific section on the 4473 asking if you're buying the gun as a gift for someone else. I have no idea on the specifics of that though because I have never done it.

 

This is a question best asked to an FFL.

[bmyers]

Intent matters. If you're buying a gun intending it to be for someone else and filling out the 4473 saying the gun is for yourself you just committed a crime. That's called a straw purchase.

That's not the same thing as you buying a gun for yourself and then deciding to sell it off for whatever reason.

 

There's a specific section on the 4473 asking if you're buying the gun as a gift for someone else. I have no idea on the specifics of that though because I have never done it.

 

This is a question best asked to an FFL.

 

 

May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?

Yes. However, persons less than 18 years of age may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.

[18 U.S.C. 922(x)]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-parent-or-guardian-purchase-firearms-or-ammunition-gift-juvenile-less-18-years-age

See also:

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59234

[Tavor]

The Form 4473 instructions (at page 4) provide a definition of actual purchaser for purposes of responding to Question 11(a). Those instructions also give a couple of hypothetical examples that may be useful for you to consider.

 

Tavor

[cybermgk]

Intent matters. If you're buying a gun intending it to be for someone else and filling out the 4473 saying the gun is for yourself you just committed a crime. That's called a straw purchase.

That's not the same thing as you buying a gun for yourself and then deciding to sell it off for whatever reason or give it away.

 

There's a specific section on the 4473 asking if you're buying the gun as a gift for someone else. I have no idea on the specifics of that though because I have never done it.

 

This is a question best asked to an FFL.

Um, not really correct. A Straw Purchase is being given the money to purchase the gun, or knowingly purchasing for a prohibited person.

 

Straight from the 4573 form instructions, bottom of left column, or top of page 4, right column https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

 

States if Mr Brown buys the firearm with his own money, to give to Mr Black as a gift, with no money, services, etc exchanged, then Mr Brown may answer Yes, they are the actual transferee/buyer

 

But, you still want to go through the transfer afterwards, as a gift, so that you have the paperwork needed for 10 years.

[Euler]

But, you still want to go through the transfer afterwards, as a gift, so that you have the paperwork needed for 10 years.

... and, in Illinois, the waiting period.

[cybermgk]

 

But, you still want to go through the transfer afterwards, as a gift, so that you have the paperwork needed for 10 years.

... and, in Illinois, the waiting period.

 

Yes (mentioned that in my first post)

[Lou]

IMHO it would just be easier to get a GIft Certificate for the price plus tax and fees and wrap it up with a photo of what youd give him. Most LGS will do this

 

Not as elegant as a wrappped up AR but a lot less hassle and liability on your part.

With the many traps with answering the questions on the 4473 and this avoids them.

[quackersmacker]

IMHO it would just be easier to get a GIft Certificate for the price plus tax and fees and wrap it up with a photo of what youd give him. Most LGS will do this

 

Not as elegant as a wrappped up AR but a lot less hassle and liability on your part.

With the many traps with answering the questions on the 4473 and this avoids them.

Good idea!

[cola490]

Makes sense to me.

[spanishjames]

Intent matters. If you're buying a gun intending it to be for someone else and filling out the 4473 saying the gun is for yourself you just committed a crime. That's called a straw purchase.

That's not the same thing as you buying a gun for yourself and then deciding to sell it off for whatever reason or give it away.

 

There's a specific section on the 4473 asking if you're buying the gun as a gift for someone else. I have no idea on the specifics of that though because I have never done it.

 

This is a question best asked to an FFL.

That isn't a straw purchase. A straw purchase happens when someone has another person buy a gun for them. For example, if a felon asks a family member to buy a gun for him, and says he'll pay for it because he has no FOID.

[Hatchet]

Best thing would be to ask the shop you would be buying for what their procedure would be. Get it straight from the horses mouth.

[Glock23]

 

IMHO it would just be easier to get a GIft Certificate for the price plus tax and fees and wrap it up with a photo of what youd give him. Most LGS will do this

Not as elegant as a wrappped up AR but a lot less hassle and liability on your part.

With the many traps with answering the questions on the 4473 and this avoids them.

 

 

Good idea!

This is what my wife did for me last Christmas.

 

She got the "out the door" price for an HK VP9, then bought a gift certificate for that exact amount.

[mic6010]

Ok, you're right, a straw purchase is a very specific thing, that's the wrong term to use. However what your talking about is still iffy imo.

(Even though we all apparently do it on regular basis) because you're still lying on the 4473. Specifically on question number 11. part a. which asks you...

 

"Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?"

"Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer the licensee cannot transfer the firearms to you."

 

[InterestedBystander]

Ive heard of gun shops getting stressed when the conversation turns to this and they just refuse to sell you anything erring on the side of caution. I suppose it depends on how the question is asked and what they hear.

[Hipshot Percussion]

I don't know how you can be labeled a 'straw purchaser' if the person you are buying the gift for doesn't know you are buying a gun for him.

[Lou]

Ive heard of gun shops getting stressed when the conversation turns to this and they just refuse to sell you anything erring on the side of caution. I suppose it depends on how the question is asked and what they hear.

 

Which is why the gift certificate works around almost all of these issues.

You are not purchasing a firearm so no federal paperwork is required and the actual purchaser does the required paperwork and NICS check.

 

If your LGS is not familiar with the concept, almost all are, find another one that is.

 

It really eliminates any stress and legal issues.

[cybermgk]

Ok, you're right, a straw purchase is a very specific thing, that's the wrong term to use. However what your talking about is still iffy imo.

(Even though we all apparently do it on regular basis) because you're still lying on the 4473. Specifically on question number 11. part a. which asks you...

 

"Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?"

"Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer the licensee cannot transfer the firearms to you."

 

See above. No it isn't lieing. The form even gives the gift example.

[Quiet Observer]

This article explains the procedure. It is from 2013, but the information should still be valid. Also refer to the instructions for 11A in the pdf in #6 above. As long as no service or tangible thing of value is provided by the receiver of the gift, it is not a straw purchase. I think a big hug and kiss would be permissible.

I bolded some of the information in the article.

 

“Andy Sweeney, a supervisor at the 45,000-square-foot GAT Guns store and indoor range, helps people who are unsure if or when they can buy a gun for someone else. The confusion, Sweeney said, usually starts with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives' Form 4473, which everyone attempting to buy a gun must fill out.

Items 1-10 are easy enough: Name, gender, birth date, and other basic facts. But item 11a trips up some people:

"Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?"

Following the question, all in bold letters, is a cautionary note — "Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you."

This may seem to some that the gift giving ends here. But an explanatory note at the end of the form assures: "You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party."

You can check "yes" to 11a with a clean conscience, according to the State Police, as long as you and the recipient of the gun have a valid firearm owner's identification card”.

 

“A formal transfer of a gun to someone 18 or older can be done at home by recording a few key pieces of information: each person's FOID card information, a description of the firearm and its serial number and the date of the transfer. For a long gun, the recipient of a gift has to wait 24 hours once the transfer agreement is written up before he or she officially takes ownership of the gun. For a handgun, the legal "cooling off period" is 72 hours.

Both the person gifting or selling the gun and the person who receives the gun should keep a copy of the agreement for 10 years after the transfer, experts say.

And beginning Jan. 1, [2014] unless you're giving the gun to an immediate family member, you have to check with the Illinois State Police to make sure the intended recipient's FOID card is valid. An exhaustive list of immediate family includes stepchildren and stepparents, along with nieces and nephews, among others”.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-12-16/news/ct-gun-gift-giving-met-20131216_1_actual-buyer-valid-foid-card-brady-center

[quackersmacker]

This is being so over-analyzed, it's actually amazing. Lou provided the solution in Post #9.

 

No one around here is shaving with Occam's Razor!

[spanishjames]

Ok, you're right, a straw purchase is a very specific thing, that's the wrong term to use. However what your talking about is still iffy imo.

(Even though we all apparently do it on regular basis) because you're still lying on the 4473. Specifically on question number 11. part a. which asks you...

 

"Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?"

"Warning: You are not the actual transferee/buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual transferee/buyer the licensee cannot transfer the firearms to you."

 

Buying something FOR someone is not the same thing as buying it on their behalf. If you worked at a gun shop, and I asked you to buy a gun for me so I could take advantage of your employee discount, it would be a straw purchase. If you worked at the same shop, and wanted to give (gift) me a gun, it would be legal so long as I have a valid FOID card, 3 day wait etc.

[es503IL]

If the firearm is purchased as a bona fide gift (i.e. no money changes hands and the giftee is not prohibited) it is 100% legal. Read the explanation of 11a on the 4473 (page 4), its spelled out in black and white on the 4473.

[cybermgk]

This is being so over-analyzed, it's actually amazing. Lou provided the solution in Post #9.

 

No one around here is shaving with Occam's Razor!

What if the particular LGS doesn't do gift card/certificate/

[quackersmacker]

 

This is being so over-analyzed, it's actually amazing. Lou provided the solution in Post #9.

 

No one around here is shaving with Occam's Razor!

What if the particular LGS doesn't do gift card/certificate/

 

Give the gift as ---- cash! I think the LGS will take cash.

[cybermgk]

 

 

This is being so over-analyzed, it's actually amazing. Lou provided the solution in Post #9.

 

No one around here is shaving with Occam's Razor!

What if the particular LGS doesn't do gift card/certificate/

 

Give the gift as ---- cash! I think the LGS will take cash.

 

Kind of defeats the purpose of giving a gun then, as recipient may not use the cash for that. AND, there really is no problem buying the firearm as a bona fide gift.

[Kraaaken]

 

IMHO it would just be easier to get a GIft Certificate for the price plus tax and fees and wrap it up with a photo of what youd give him. Most LGS will do this

Not as elegant as a wrappped up AR but a lot less hassle and liability on your part.

With the many traps with answering the questions on the 4473 and this avoids them.

 

 

Good idea!

DITTO^^^^^^^^^

Gift card with pix and it reserved is a nice way to go.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Quiet Observer]

 

Kind of defeats the purpose of giving a gun then, as recipient may not use the cash for that. AND, there really is no problem buying the firearm as a bona fide gift.

 

​Right. Many might want to use the gift right away. There is more of a thrill of holding the gift right away. Giving a picture of the gun(as some suggested) is not the same. Taking the gun to the range the next day is more fun than having a picture. Although, I guess they could take a picture of a box of ammo along with a picture of the gun to the range.

 

 

​Giving money or a gift certificate would delay the reception of the actual gift.

 

​There is a caveat. The gifted gun would have to officially remain in the possession of the gift giver until the waiting period is complete. The gift giver and receiver would have to go to the range together. The giver would temporarily take possession when they left the range. With everyone living under the same roof this would be pretty simple. If the parties live separately, it would be awkward. No one else would probably know that one's adult child or best friend took immediate possession of the gun, but to follow the law the waiting period would have to be observed.

 

​Regardless of the method of giving (actual gift, money, gift certificate) it is one cumbersome mess.

[es503IL]

Direct from the 4473

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is

the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or

otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from

pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the

actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona

fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave

the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire

the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving

or possessing the firearm.

Actual TRANSFEREE/buyer examples: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase

a firearm for Mr. Smith (who may or may not be prohibited). Mr. Smith gives Mr.

Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE

ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer "NO" to

question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if

Mr. Brown buys the firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a gift (with

no service or tangible thing of value provided by Mr. Black), Mr. Brown is the actual

transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question 11.a. However,

the transferor/seller may not transfer a firearm to any person he/she knows or has

reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 922(g), (n) or (x).

EXCEPTION: If a person is picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person,

he/she is not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.

 

4473.pdf

[borgranta]

I want to give a gun as a gift. The person has a FOID, would it be best to take them to GS and have them fill out paperwork and just pay for it, or should I buy it and then do a private transfer. I would prefer the latter so it could be a surprise.

You could buy it and then subsequently do a person to person transfer at a local gun store.