Heads up on some possibly dangerous ammo

[DD123]

So on Sunday I shot USPSA, and someone in another squad had their gun blow up on them. She was shooting Blazer 9mm factory ammo, and you don't get that result from anything other than a double charge or higher.

 

Someone else on her squad had a backup gun, that coincidentally was the exact same model. On the last stage, she had a second one happen, but this time it caused the gun to jump out of her hand.

 

Basically with both guns, the slide release was blown outside of the plastic frame, that whole side was being bulged out because of that, and a couple of other parts were bent up. Both guns appeared to be identical from that regard. The slides and barrels looked fine, and it seems that the cases were blown out rearward.

 

Keep an eye out on your Blazer 9mm ammo. I don't know much more than this, but was able to see both guns after the fact.

 

I'm sure some of you may have questions, but the only information I have is what's above so I can't really answer any, but wanted to give you all a heads up about this. I wish I had lot #'s and such, but I never had a chance to.

 

If I find out any more, which I'm sure I will, I'll update the thread. I just know for sure that it was Blazer factory 9mm ammo. Couldn't tell you what grain, but I imagine it was probably nothing lighter than 124 grain, but this is just a wild guess since most who shoot USPSA won't use anything lighter than 124 grain.

 

The guns looked fine except for some bent and replaceable parts which was surprising since I've personally witnessed a Glock detonating and that gun was done. These were Springfield XDM 5.25's.

 

So keep an eye out in case you're using Blazer 9mm.

[tkroenlein]

When you say the "case was blown out rearward," are you saying ruptured case or out of the chamber?

[OldMarineVet]

Thanks for the heads up.

[DD123]

When you say the "case was blown out rearward," are you saying ruptured case or out of the chamber?

 

It was a standard double charged case so it blew the whole rim off at the web of the case.

 

I didn't get to see the brass, but was told that's what happened.

[BobPistol]

Do you have any lot numbers on this?

[Neverforget]

 

 

I'm sure some of you may have questions, but the only information I have is what's above so I can't really answer any, but wanted to give you all a heads up about this. I wish I had lot #'s and such, but I never had a chance to.

 

 

 

Here in case you missed it.

[skeetbreak]

I just ordered 20 boxes of 115gr Blazer Brass on friday

[DD123]

I just ordered 20 boxes of 115gr Blazer Brass on friday

Odds are you should be fine. The only people I ever see shooting USPSA with 115 grain are people that are shooting it the first time. The person this happened to has been shooting it over a year so more than likely she'll be using 124 grain at least.

 

Not really relevant, but the reason people don't shoot 115 grain in USPSA is because it's way snappier than 124 or 147 grain loads, so follow up shots take a bit longer for the sights to come back down onto the target. You also have to worry about being able to knock down poppers so the heavier bullets help with that.

 

ETA: I'll find out more by this weekend for sure. My buddy is the one who's inspecting and repairing both guns, so he'll undoubtedly be asking her more questions. She was visibly shaken up after the second one, so obviously asking a million questions at that time wasn't really an option. My first question would've been "why did you continue to shoot that ammo seeing as you already had one detonation". This is why I like reloading my own. I know for sure, 100% that my ammo will never detonate on me. I have a powder cop die on my Dillon so any charges that are grossly under or over my target charge weight sets off a warning buzzer. I also visually monitor the warning indicator to see any charges that are lower or higher than they should be, but not high or low enough to cause the warning indicator to sound the alarm.

[splash]

Mine was, different. I was shooting my newly purchased Shield and was using Blazer ammo. Maybe about 50-60 rounds throught it, pulled the trigger, no bang. Dropped the mag, racked the slide, case extracted. Checked it and it has a good primer strike. Racked the slide again and the bullet fell off. Showed it to RSO and he said that's the first time seeing it considering the quality of Blazer ammos.

[FieldGL]

Interesting. Is this Blazer or Blazer Brass? If I recall, there's two. I've had nothing but good luck with CCI Blazer Brass 115gr. I haven't bought any recently, since I bought a ton few months ago. Couple weeks ago, went through about 600rnds at the range.

[DD123]

Mine was, different. I was shooting my newly purchased Shield and was using Blazer ammo. Maybe about 50-60 rounds throught it, pulled the trigger, no bang. Dropped the mag, racked the slide, case extracted. Checked it and it has a good primer strike. Racked the slide again and the bullet fell off. Showed it to RSO and he said that's the first time seeing it considering the quality of Blazer ammos.

Question: did the bullet of the next round after you experienced the malfunction fall off, or was it from the round that malfunctioned?

 

The reason I ask is because some chambers aren't cut deep enough, so they're very picky with overall length, or bullets with a longer profile and ogive. I've seen some rounds that were too long get jammed into the barrel.

 

IMO, it seems that the only way for someone to fire a round into a squib with a semi auto, is if we fall into the automatic response of "tap rack bang" without noticing that we had a squib. Some squibs can go far enough into the barrel that you can chamber another round, however it usually won't be enough to actually cycle the slide. That's where the malfunction drill can cause more problems than it solves. I personally saw about 5 squibs last year at USPSA matches. These were all rounds with no powder in them. We all heard the pop, and everyone on the squad yelled "STOP".

 

 

Interesting. Is this Blazer or Blazer Brass? If I recall, there's two. I've had nothing but good luck with CCI Blazer Brass 115gr. I haven't bought any recently, since I bought a ton few months ago. Couple weeks ago, went through about 600rnds at the range.

 

Blazer brass. It was brass cased.

[splash]

I was using Blazer Brass. That was the only issue I had in about 1K rounds using 3 different pistol. Bought if from SGAmmo btw.

[Kipp Jones]

How do we know that the bullets were not reloads?

[splash]

It was from the round that malfunctioned. No issue after that, no squib as I dropped the mag and did not chamber another round after the malfunction.

[brianj - now in Kansas]

And that is why I prefer to do handloads for IDPA. I trust myself at this point more than I trust Blazer (or Federal, or...)

 

Bri

[DD123]

How do we know that the bullets were not reloads?

Why would she specifically say that the brand was Blazer brass factory ammo?

[DD123]

And that is why I prefer to do handloads for IDPA. I trust myself at this point more than I trust Blazer (or Federal, or...)

 

Bri

Same here, I've had zero problems with my reloads. But I'm way more picky and detail oriented so you'll never see me load a squib or dangerous round. I actually build that safety redundancy into my loading process.

 

I honestly don't know why more people don't reload, especially if they're shooting thousands of rounds per year. I can load up my Dillon 650 with powder, primers, and brass, and in one hour I have 500 rounds saving $75 over factory ammo costs.

[junglebob]

I was wondering if this could be caused by bullet setback? I read something about rotating your self defense ammo because if you eject a chambered round, say before dry fire practice, and load the same round back in the chamber it pushes the bullet into the case over time. I understand this can cause pressure in the case to build up too much if the round is fired. Could this possibly be what happened?

[cherryriver]

I was the match director of this event. I happened to be on the stage when the first XDm was blown up and was struck by fragments exiting the rear of the slide.
The second one occurred in the borrowed XDm on the shooter's last stage, but I was elsewhere doing MD stuff when I was summoned.

I have poorly-focused photos of the two cases that perhaps I can post when I have time.

When the first one occurred, I was initially certain that it was an aftermarket-type reman but was surprised to be shown the box of Blazer Brass from which the bad round had come.

The case itself was astonishing to see- much of the rim itself was gone. I've seen destroyed cases before but nothing quite like this except from Open Division guns running 9 Major and used range brass.

I chose to let the shooter continue the match, convinced that CCI could not possibly do two such overcharges in a lifetime. I was wrong.

(A match director has the authority in the USPSA rulebook to decide that a competitor's ammunition is "unsafe" and to disallow the shooter from continuing.)

There was no evidence of bullet setback in either case. Not only did I inspect them, but so did the gunsmith referenced above, whose gunsmithing skill I hold in high regard; the conclusion was the same.

The shooter and her companion are going to move forward on contacting CCI and seeing about getting some satisfaction. At this time, I, as the match official, am prepared to support them in this, as will the 'smith, no doubt.
Both guns need work- the first one, the shooter's own, was damaged, but the second was worse- the frame expanded significantly. and I would consider it trash. Worse, it belongs to a gentleman kind enough to help his squadmate complete the match by loaning his backup gun.

I wish I had captured the lot number but I had my hands full otherwise. The shooter's companion will handle this competently, I am sure.

Scary stuff.

[cherryriver]

Well, stand by.
I am hearing the ammunition was not factory CCI but came from a small boutique shop. Until I have some more solid info, that's what I'm going with: it wasn't CCI Blazer Brass that exploded those two Springers.

More later.

[Kipp Jones]

 

How do we know that the bullets were not reloads?

Why would she specifically say that the brand was Blazer brass factory ammo?

 

Ask her? Where did she purchase it from? Was it a re-seller? Was the box sealed? Is she the originally owner of the ammo? Again, how do we KNOW the ammo was not a reload old Joe decided to make with the brass he picked up and sold as new at a show in a Blazer box or online? Does she have proof of purchase for the ammo? Otherwise this is hear say...

[DD123]

 

 

How do we know that the bullets were not reloads?

Why would she specifically say that the brand was Blazer brass factory ammo?

 

Ask her? Where did she purchase it from? Was it a re-seller? Was the box sealed? Is she the originally owner of the ammo? Again, how do we KNOW the ammo was not a reload old Joe decided to make with the brass he picked up and sold as new at a show in a Blazer box or online? Does she have proof of purchase for the ammo? Otherwise this is hear say...

 

Have you read anything in this post that even remotely indicated that I know her?

 

I'm relaying information that I heard while I was there. Even Bill was under that same impression as can be seen in his first comment on post 19. This is what everyone at the match thought.

 

It looks like Bill has learned more about it.

 

What I do find strange however is how it seems that you're under the impression that this could never happen with factory ammo. I've personally witnessed a Glock detonate from factory ammo that was eventually recalled, along with seeing the aftermath of others who bought their ammo right off the shelf of a Cabela's. Aside from cost, this is the other reason I reload. I have direct control over the quality and safety of my ammo, while a huge operation has to make some sacrifices in direct control to pump out what the market is demanding.

 

Just over the last 8 years I've seen at least a dozen recalls, some multi lot recalls at the same time, of different lines of ammo.

[thobart]

Spoke to Glenn about this it does not appear to be CCI blazer brass. It was reloaded and provided to the shooter in bags. Again not blazer brass we are trying to track down the manufacturer or reloader at this point.

[DD123]

Spoke to Glenn about this it does not appear to be CCI blazer brass. It was reloaded and provided to the shooter in bags. Again not blazer brass we are trying to track down the manufacturer or reloader at this point.

All I kept hearing from everyone I spoke to was Blazer brass 9mm ammo. Not sure how that even began if it wasn't actually Blazer brass ammo.

 

There are several companies selling ammo in bags online, some new cases, some remans. They obviously must have an ATF license otherwise they couldn't sell it commercially.

 

Well, everyone hang on while more info comes in. False alarm on the Blazer. I'm still curious about how the Blazer name began being thrown around. I heard that within 15 minutes of the gun detonating so you'd think the first reports would be the most accurate.

[DD123]

If these were in fact remans, then it looks like another company is going to go through what Freedom Munitions went through a while ago when they were shipping out dangerous ammo.

 

Hopefully we'll get a name of the company soon so that we all know to stay away until they get their stuff straightened out.

[Hazborgufen]

 

 

How do we know that the bullets were not reloads?

Why would she specifically say that the brand was Blazer brass factory ammo?

 

Ask her? Where did she purchase it from? Was it a re-seller? Was the box sealed? Is she the originally owner of the ammo? Again, how do we KNOW the ammo was not a reload old Joe decided to make with the brass he picked up and sold as new at a show in a Blazer box or online? Does she have proof of purchase for the ammo? Otherwise this is hear say...

 

 

What ammo boxes are you using that they are sealed? Most pistol ammo boxes are just cardboard boxes with a folded flap. There's no seal on most boxes of ammo.

[luckydawg13]

I was wondering if this could be caused by bullet setback? I read something about rotating your self defense ammo because if you eject a chambered round, say before dry fire practice, and load the same round back in the chamber it pushes the bullet into the case over time. I understand this can cause pressure in the case to build up too much if the round is fired. Could this possibly be what happened?

I think that is just internet BS

[Kipp Jones]

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I do find strange however is how it seems that you're under the impression that this could never happen with factory ammo.

 

Could you please point to where you formed that conclusion from what I posted???

 

I support factual reporting. Rumors, I heard or social chatter often do not hold water. In my opinion, it is critical to gather all the facts before posting unconfirmed information that may tarnish a person's or business reputation.

[Kipp Jones]

 

 

 

What ammo boxes are you using that they are sealed? Most pistol ammo boxes are just cardboard boxes with a folded flap. There's no seal on most boxes of ammo.

 

 

Bulk packs of factory ammo. ;-)

[DD123]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I do find strange however is how it seems that you're under the impression that this could never happen with factory ammo.

 

 

 

Could you please point to where you formed that conclusion from what I posted???

 

I support factual reporting. Rumors, I heard or social chatter often do not hold water. In my opinion, it is critical to gather all the facts before posting unconfirmed information that may tarnish a person's or business reputation.

 

Reread this entire thread, and then your comments and report back.

 

And what part of I WAS THERE did you not understand? It's up to me to go there and inspect her ammo myself before letting people know that they should keep their eyes open? Perhaps if you'd read the fact that I literally said I would update this as more information came out, then this whole back and forth worthless discussion wouldn't be happening.

 

The fact that the match director, who just posted above stating that he was hit by shrapnel, and was also under the impression that it was Blazer ammo as well should perhaps have made you rethink your comments, but asking people to read is asking too much apparently. Almost everyone at the match was positive that it was Blazer Brass ammo. How the f is that hearsay? Did you stop to think that maybe I was posting this with hopes that if any members had Blazer ammo that they should hold off on shooting it until I was able to find more out?

 

The most humorous part is thinking that somehow me alerting people to a possible bad batch of ammo, and clearly stating I'd report back with new info as it becomes available is somehow going to impact CCI's business is laughable on a forum local to Illinois, inhabited by current or former Illinoisans. A post on a local forum is hardly a FOX NEWS ALERT!!!