194 replies to this topic

[Molly B.]

5/8/2014  Updated to add:

Wrongful denials based on "court ordered treatment for alcoholism" - at issue are the 102 counties each using differing terminology/vocabulary without a standardized reporting of DUI evaluaiton/education/intervention classes.  In some of the wrongful denials, the court documents was actually marked for "treatment" when it should have been eval or education.  Anyone wrongfully denied should file an appeal  with the ISP and submit the appropriate documentation.  If the court docs show wrong terminology, you may need to go back to the court and to the eval folks and have the documents corrected, then file appeal. In the meantime, the ISP is working with the circuit courts to standardize the terminology used.

 

 

The ISP has posted an appeal form on their website - https://www.isp.stat...Application.pdf 

 

You will need to fill out the form stating that you were not sentenced to court ordered treatment for alcoholism.   Include copies of your evaluation, copies of court documents, etc.  Mail or email it to the address listed.

 

If the court documents wrongfully list "treatment", you may have to have the documents corrected or ask for a statement of correction.

 

If you mail it, it is suggested you send it registered mail with delivery receipt requested.

 

3/21/2018 Updated to add:

It is our understanding there are four evaluation assessment levels. The first two levels require evaluation and education.  The Significant Risk and High Risk assessments require counseling.  That counseling qualifies as 'treatment' and therefore carries a five-year prohibition for a concealed carry license.

 

Minimum – Eval  + 10 Hrs. victim impact

 

Moderate – Eval + 10 hrs. victim impact + 12 Hrs. Intervention

 

Significant – Eval + 10 hrs. victim impact + 20 hrs. counseling = treatment

 

High risk – Eval + 75 hrs. counseling = treatment

[IronSam]

Thanks Molly,

The ISP is making law in this case. The law allows for a single DUI and the ISP is rendering that Mute. Since 1988, anyone charged with a DUI is required by Law to submit to the Classes and Evaluation. If the Professional Evaluation does not specifically Diagnose Alcholism, or Treatment of such, then the ISP is not only making law it's rendering it's own Professional Diagnosis of a Disease. If that were to be entered into someone's health record it could do irreperable harm in every aspect of that person's life.

Thanks for All you Efforts!

[AuroraInstructor]

Molly, any idea how long it may be before we get the word on if appeals are successful or not?

[Ricky91685]

Well I'm sending my appeal in, I've got all needed documents, evaluation, appeal forms, copies of court case...sending it overnight registered mail with delivery receipt. Anybody have any feedback on how people are fairing in the appeals process?
Rick Boling

[Dr. Rat]

Well I'm sending my appeal in, I've got all needed documents, evaluation, appeal forms, copies of court case...sending it overnight registered mail with delivery receipt. Anybody have any feedback on how people are fairing in the appeals process?
Rick Boling

 

Except for the cases of instructor misconduct, I think the only thing we've seen so far are court dates being assigned.

[Ricky91685]

Well I'm sending my appeal in, I've got all needed documents, evaluation, appeal forms, copies of court case...sending it overnight registered mail with delivery receipt. Anybody have any feedback on how people are fairing in the appeals process?
Rick Boling

 
Except for the cases of instructor misconduct, I think the only thing we've seen so far are court dates being assigned.

Even for cases which were denied by ISP not local law agencies? Mine was denied due to a minimal risk class that is STATE required.

[Dr. Rat]

 

 

Well I'm sending my appeal in, I've got all needed documents, evaluation, appeal forms, copies of court case...sending it overnight registered mail with delivery receipt. Anybody have any feedback on how people are fairing in the appeals process?
Rick Boling

 
Except for the cases of instructor misconduct, I think the only thing we've seen so far are court dates being assigned.

Even for cases which were denied by ISP not local law agencies? Mine was denied due to a minimal risk class that is STATE required.

 

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think any official appeals to the ISP Director have been ruled on yet.

[IronSam]

Ricky, Keep us posted on any response or progress? ISP is treating these as court ordered treatment of alcoholism. Quite a few posts on it. The Courts don't even have discretion on the Classes. They supervise the compliance based on legal guidelines and do not order it, but enter it into the order after the fact in most cases. Unles your Evaluation diagnoses you as an alcoholic and in need of treatment for it, and a Judge Orders such treatment you should not be prohibited.

[Ricky91685]

My appeal letter along with all documentation, eval, discharge from treatment facility, court documents was received by firearms bureau today... I made sure I sent it next day priority with delivery confirmation.... So we will see what happens next...

[IronSam]

Mine was delivered on Monday. Almost identical situation. Not sure how an Administrative Review will fair considering, it's my belief, that denying for DUI Classes is an ISP policy decision in the first place. We have to try. Illinoiscarry is involved as well.

[Buzzard]

Are these denials for DUI offenses within the five years before application? Or are they denying a permit for offenses from many years ago.

 

Can they deny an applicant for DUI offenses from say, over twenty fives ago?

[IronSam]

You should be OK if it was 25 years. It will most likely show up on your background search and there are many posts to indicate the ISP is loging objections to the Board under the Threat to Others provision. You can send an email quetstion to ISP about your eligibility on that question, but they will tell you that you must apply to make that determination.
My DUI was in the past 5 years. Section 25 of the CCL Law prohibits a license for 2 or more convictions or guily pleas relating to DUI. ISP is treating the associated DUI Education Classes as Court Ordered Treatment for Alcoholism, which is a prohibitor. Unless your DUI Evaluation, requiered by Law, results in a diagnosis of alcoholism and a judge orders further treatment for such, the application should be approved as it does not meet the prohibitors in the Law. ISP is making its own policy, in my opinion.

Edited by IronSam, 06 May 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[Ricky91685]

Has anyone who appealed gotten a response back? My appeals letter was received April 23 by the ISP, now I know it's going to be awaiting game, just curious if anyone has gotten a response back? I sent my appeal with all supporting documents, figured if they needed anything else I would've gotten a letter back stating I was missing something.... What's everyone else's status at this point? Thanks, Rick

Edited by Ricky91685, 06 May 2014 - 08:50 AM.

[Elmer Fudd]

I have posted more detail in other places...there is no time limit on the Appeals process....my guess is you are not going to hear anything for at least six months.

[Ricky91685]

HAHAHAHAHA Elmer I would expect nothing less, good ole Illinois!

[Molly B.]

I have posted more detail in other places...there is no time limit on the Appeals process....my guess is you are not going to hear anything for at least six months.

I would think when it is determined that the ISPis wrongfully denying CCLs in these cases, those applications should immediately be entered back into the system for processing.

 

At least that is what we will be pushing.

[Ricky91685]

Thanks Molly, I have no doubts your going to pull through for us, just think they're (ISP An government officials) are going to make us wait Aslong as possible! Your efforts do not go unnoticed, Atleast not by me, keep on fighting!!

[IronSam]

Ricky, My Request for Administrative Review was received at ISP on April 21st with no acknwledgment other than the USPS return receipt. My denial letter dated March 13 stated that I could be moved to Approved upon final review, whatever that means. I doubt they would be moving on cases like ours at all if not for IllinoisCarry. My Applicaton date was Jan 8th. Good Luck, and Thanks Molly.

[Ricky91685]

Best of luck to you aswell IronSam, any new developments be sure to post, as I'll do the same!

[Molly B.]

Update

Wrongful denials based on "court ordered treatment for alcoholism" - at issue are the 102 counties each using differing terminology/vocabulary without a standardized reporting of DUI evals/education/intervention classes.  In some of the wrongful denials, the court doc was actually marked for "treatment" when it should have been eval or education.  Anyone wrongfully denied should file an appeal  with the ISP and submit the appropriate documentation.  If the court docs show wrong terminology, you may need to go back to the court and to the eval folks and have the documents corrected, then file appeal. In the meantime, the ISP is working with the circuit courts to standardize the terminology used.

[IronSam]

Thanks Molly!

Not sure what language will hit the right note. I sent mine in April 21st, so I'll wait for a response. It's really about the screening process. In Lake County, the Court Order reads DUI Project and notes the Level of Education and Early Intervention based on legal guidelines. The Evals provide a Classification in their report. In any case, the purpose of the program is to prevent the likelyhood of repeat DUI offenses. There is no effort to stop anyone from consuming alcohol or provide a "cure", but to make more informed decisions about drinking and driving.  I call it Drinker's Ed, and it must be working as it's been in place for decades. The program should be nothing new to the ISP and I don't see how they can make the leap that assumes Alcoholism. It is logical to say that an alcoholic will drink and drive, but not logical to assume that anyone who is found DUI suffers from alcoholism, hence the screening and Evaluation process. If the Eval does not classify someone as such then the assumption of alcoholism is mute, and therefore no treatment of alcoholism has taken place. Denial based on a single DUI is not provided for in the CCL Law.

Edited by IronSam, 16 May 2014 - 08:45 AM.

[Elmer Fudd]

I am not sure if this is relevant to the process but, I did learn more about the operation of the ISP Mental Health Review Board. http://illinoiscarry...showtopic=48749 It might be worth seeking to understand if that group has had any involvement with the DUIs and "treatment". The more I dig into the ISP the more I am discovering that there are moving parts that have not been documented completely. There seem to be numerous areas where ISP is processing applications and and making up and documenting the procedures and rules for processing the applications as they go.

[IronSam]

Makes sense to me. Maybe individual processors with no difinitive guidelines for the reasons Molly B. mentioned above. Once denied, you're in the gears. No real communication from ISP. I can provide whatever they need if I only knew what that was.

[IronSam]

After receiving a letter of Denial for DUI Classes from ISP on March 13th which stated "may be moved from denied to approved upon final review", another letter dated March 19th indicating the Board of Review finds me eligible and "the ISP will resume processing your application" and a Request for Administrative Review regarding the initial denial I am closing in on 5 Months and no change in Denial Status and nothing back from the ISP.

[Dr. Rat]

After receiving a letter of Denial for DUI Classes from ISP on March 13th which stated "may be moved from denied to approved upon final review", another letter dated March 19th indicating the Board of Review finds me eligible and "the ISP will resume processing your application" and a Request for Administrative Review regarding the initial denial I am closing in on 5 Months and no change in Denial Status and nothing back from the ISP.

 

"The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine."

[slayer38115]

5 months makes me sad.  It's only been 34 days since I filed my appeal for this.  I called ISP last week and left a message to make sure they received my appeal since I sent it by email.  They called back within two hours but all he could say was that it was received and uploaded into my file.

[Elmer Fudd]

Appeals are going to take 8 months to a year.....starting month 8 and I was expedited

[Molly B.]

I don't believe these types of Appeals are going to take that long they are a different kind of animal.

[slayer38115]

 Has anyone for any denial reason had their appeal decision made by the ISP?  We see numbers for applications, approvals and denials but almost no info about appeals.  It'd be interesting to see if the ISP has attended to any appeal yet.

[Molly B.]

several who were denied by the ISP for insufficient training have done the new training have filed an appeal and have gone on to be approved and licenses issued.