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Does anyone have any info on applying to become an ISP Approved CCW Instructor Yet?


bobapunk

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bobapunk and nic have it right

 

In Iowa the law just says you must take the course from a qualified instructor. The course as long as it meets the law can be about anything. Instead of following the NRA courses that don't allow teaching law or use of force I created my own custom course that goes above and beyond the Iowa and NRA Course Req. Similar to the Utah Instructor Cert. and Course as mentioned too.

 

Also the Lockton Insurance does cover you if you get the Professional Liability Insurance. I am also set up as a LLC and I have a very serious liability waiver for students to sign. Unless you commit gross negligence you should be covered this way.

 

I imagine the ISP will have instructors submit a course outline for approval. As long as you cover the subject mentioned in the new law then it should be OK

 

I am the founder of Iowa Carry / Iowa Firearms Coalition and have been a Instructor for 16 years.

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I know other states like MO and KS have either prefabbed course outlines or generic requirments with the addition of a state-specific-legislation portion to comply with the authorizing legislation.

 

I'm a new instructor but my plan - stealing borrowing the concept from others who blazed the trail - is to teach the Basic Pistol all the way through, then a separate, additional course to comply with the state specific instruction and any additional quals.

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I see a lot of people saying they are going to develop their own course for the second 8 hours of training after they teach something like NRA Basic Pistol. I hope it doesn't come to that. Hopefully, the ISP will certify the NRA Personal Protection classes as both ITH and OTH have the elements required in law and I find the NRA curriculum to be very good...especially OTH. I really don't want to have to develop my own course when the NRA has done such a fine job already and since I am accustom to teaching Personal Protection. And, unless I'm mistaken, when 183 was new the question was asked and the response was NRA instructors and NRA courses will be certified...so I think it's likely Basic Pistol + Personal Protection will be certified.

 

I know a lot of folks worry about the attorney or LEO with POST section. I would submit that if you ask, there are a lot of people that would volunteer to teach that for free. As an attorney in Central Illinois, I would be willing to offer my help to anyone who needs it. All I ask is some per diem to cover the fuel and my time will be free. I think there are a lot of attorneys that would be willing to make the same offer in everyone's area.

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I see a lot of people saying they are going to develop their own course for the second 8 hours of training after they teach something like NRA Basic Pistol. I hope it doesn't come to that. Hopefully, the ISP will certify the NRA Personal Protection classes as both ITH and OTH have the elements required in law and I find the NRA curriculum to be very good...especially OTH. I really don't want to have to develop my own course when the NRA has done such a fine job already and since I am accustom to teaching Personal Protection. And, unless I'm mistaken, when 183 was new the question was asked and the response was NRA instructors and NRA courses will be certified...so I think it's likely Basic Pistol + Personal Protection will be certified.

 

I know a lot of folks worry about the attorney or LEO with POST section. I would submit that if you ask, there are a lot of people that would volunteer to teach that for free. As an attorney in Central Illinois, I would be willing to offer my help to anyone who needs it. All I ask is some per diem to cover the fuel and my time will be free. I think there are a lot of attorneys that would be willing to make the same offer in everyone's area.

 

Sent you PM(s)!

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I have so far not found a willing attorney or police officer willing to take on the additional liability teaching use of force for free (or reasonable fee) in the Chicagoland area. Their license to practice or their need for employment as a police officer outweigh their desire to help out the cause.

 

Again, what you are offering is completely out of the norm in the Chicagoland area and thusly, we would prefer if there was a curriculum that did not restrict teaching to ONLY attorneys or police officers.

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I have so far not found a willing attorney or police officer willing to take on the additional liability teaching use of force for free (or reasonable fee) in the Chicagoland area. Their license to practice or their need for employment as a police officer outweigh their desire to help out the cause.

 

Again, what you are offering is completely out of the norm in the Chicagoland area and thusly, we would prefer if there was a curriculum that did not restrict teaching to ONLY attorneys or police officers.

 

exactly so

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I have so far not found a willing attorney or police officer willing to take on the additional liability teaching use of force for free (or reasonable fee) in the Chicagoland area. Their license to practice or their need for employment as a police officer outweigh their desire to help out the cause.

 

Again, what you are offering is completely out of the norm in the Chicagoland area and thusly, we would prefer if there was a curriculum that did not restrict teaching to ONLY attorneys or police officers.

  1. Take PPITH/PPOTH course outline
  2. Remove all instances of "NRA"
  3. Insert ILL specific Purchase/possession/transfer/transport/carry/use of force/dealing with LEO
  4. Send to ISP for approval
  5. Teach the whole thing yourself

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I have so far not found a willing attorney or police officer willing to take on the additional liability teaching use of force for free (or reasonable fee) in the Chicagoland area. Their license to practice or their need for employment as a police officer outweigh their desire to help out the cause.

 

Again, what you are offering is completely out of the norm in the Chicagoland area and thusly, we would prefer if there was a curriculum that did not restrict teaching to ONLY attorneys or police officers.

  1. Take PPITH/PPOTH course outline
     
  2. Remove all instances of "NRA"
     
  3. Insert ILL specific Purchase/possession/transfer/transport/carry/use of force/dealing with LEO
     
  4. Send to ISP for approval
     
  5. Teach the whole thing yourself

 

 

I don't see a reason why you just can't use NRA Pistol, use parts of PPOTH lesson plans, take all instances of "NRA" out of both, then do 3-5 above steps yourself as well.

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I have so far not found a willing attorney or police officer willing to take on the additional liability teaching use of force for free (or reasonable fee) in the Chicagoland area. Their license to practice or their need for employment as a police officer outweigh their desire to help out the cause.

 

Again, what you are offering is completely out of the norm in the Chicagoland area and thusly, we would prefer if there was a curriculum that did not restrict teaching to ONLY attorneys or police officers.

  1. Take PPITH/PPOTH course outline
     
  2. Remove all instances of "NRA"
     
  3. Insert ILL specific Purchase/possession/transfer/transport/carry/use of force/dealing with LEO
     
  4. Send to ISP for approval
     
  5. Teach the whole thing yourself

 

 

I don't see a reason why you just can't use NRA Pistol, use parts of PPOTH lesson plans, take all instances of "NRA" out of both, then do 3-5 above steps yourself as well.

 

No reason, however, a Lawyer is not required to complete NRA Basic Pistol, so you might as well do the NRA class and issue the NRA Cert...

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No reason, however, a Lawyer is not required to complete NRA Basic Pistol, so you might as well do the NRA class and issue the NRA Cert...

 

I agree but keep in mind If you do the NRA Pistol under the NRA guidelines, I believe you would also need the 8:1 Student to Instructor ratio correct? In a class of say 16, you need two NRA Instructors. 24 people, 3 instructors and so on. If you make it your own, your not tied down to that. We still intend on keeping those rough ratios but you aren't mandated. Food for thought.

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I do sympathize with all of you. I understand that there are a lot of lawyers who won't move a muscle unless its for a buck, and I'm sure the local Sheriff departments in Chicago-land are less helpful in promoting good training with firearms as our are down here.

 

I don't know what any of you think is reasonable as far as what has been offered. Plus, I know that it costs more to get anything done in Chicago-land than it does down here. It hard to imagine you can't entice a LEO to swing by and do a couple hours of instruction for a couple hundred bucks...which I think is pretty reasonable. But, obviously you all know your market and I don't, so color me surprised.

 

Also, I know this is self serving to some point, but I do see the benefit of having that lawyer or LEO with POST come in a teach that section. Obviously, the NRA sees a benefit, they put it in there. However, it has been my experience teaching classes that during the legal portion, students come up with many off the wall questions about firearms and the law...even a lot of questions about self defense law that I have to think about before answering.

 

I'm not saying that no one else could teach students about the law and do a good job. I guess, what I am saying, is I hope the ISP approves the NRA PPITH and PPOTH curriculum before it starts dealing with everyone's individual curriculum. Especially since I like the benefit the NRA training provides...a good solid standard for everyone to meet.

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G&L, I don't think it would be fair for any instructor to ask an attorney or LEO to come to his or her class and teach for free unless they themselves were doing it for cost. Most instructors including myself are doing this to make money BUT without gouging people. I'm not one to do it for free. It's a business like any other and I still have to pay my own instructors. You as a professional should be compensated for that as well. I'm not worried about the not having one available, I just think myself and others here would be willing to compensate you something for your time. It's the right thing to do. BTW, there is no POST in Illinois either...They go by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standard Board. Same thing, different name. :hmm:
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And, sorry, after reading that post it looks like I'm running down Chicago. That isn't my intention. I just was recognizing that the odds are more against the pro gun forces up there than they are down here. In my little county, I can't name a lawyer who wouldn't volunteer a little time to help the 2A cause...but I also live in one of those crazy counties where we still will no prosecute you for carrying in the interim while the ISP sorts this all out.
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I totally agree. People should be compensated for their labor. And I totally agree that teaching these classes is a for profit venture...but we also have a duty to not gouge people who need this service.

 

However, I volunteer a fair amount of time because its good for the cause...a cause I believe in. Nothing is finalized yet, but my state rep and I are talking about a plan to subsidize training for people in the district where I will donate my instructor time and he pays for materials. Not to mention, there is an expectation in the legal profession that we do a little "community service" type work. The ISBA pushes for pro bono for the poor, I push for Constitutional education for those in need...I just define "in need" as those who are in need of their concealed carry training.

 

So, I have nothing against making money by providing service...I like to dabble in that a bit too.

 

Yeah, I understand there is no POST in IL...I just use POST because it is in the NRA training...well, "POST or equivalent".

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I have so far not found a willing attorney or police officer willing to take on the additional liability teaching use of force for free (or reasonable fee) in the Chicagoland area. Their license to practice or their need for employment as a police officer outweigh their desire to help out the cause.

 

Again, what you are offering is completely out of the norm in the Chicagoland area and thusly, we would prefer if there was a curriculum that did not restrict teaching to ONLY attorneys or police officers.

  1. Take PPITH/PPOTH course outline
  2. Remove all instances of "NRA"
  3. Insert ILL specific Purchase/possession/transfer/transport/carry/use of force/dealing with LEO
  4. Send to ISP for approval
  5. Teach the whole thing yourself

 

That's what I think everyone will do. I plan on doing something similar. Why reinvent the wheel...

 

I just did not agree with what GUNS&LAWYERS said about makin PPITH and PPOTH the approved course since we would be restricted in who can teach the class (attorneys and police only).

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G&L, I don't think it would be fair for any instructor to ask an attorney or LEO to come to his or her class and teach for free unless they themselves were doing it for cost. Most instructors including myself are doing this to make money BUT without gouging people. I'm not one to do it for free. It's a business like any other and I still have to pay my own instructors. You as a professional should be compensated for that as well. I'm not worried about the not having one available, I just think myself and others here would be willing to compensate you something for your time. It's the right thing to do. BTW, there is no POST in Illinois either...They go by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standard Board. Same thing, different name. :hmm:

Craig, I think you and I are on the same wave length. I also think we need to meet up for a beer and discussion on several things. You can PM me to see when and where.

Boog

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G&L, I don't think it would be fair for any instructor to ask an attorney or LEO to come to his or her class and teach for free unless they themselves were doing it for cost. Most instructors including myself are doing this to make money BUT without gouging people. I'm not one to do it for free. It's a business like any other and I still have to pay my own instructors. You as a professional should be compensated for that as well. I'm not worried about the not having one available, I just think myself and others here would be willing to compensate you something for your time. It's the right thing to do. BTW, there is no POST in Illinois either...They go by the Illinois Law Enforcement Training and Standard Board. Same thing, different name. :hmm:

Craig, I think you and I are on the same wave length. I also think we need to meet up for a beer and discussion on several things. You can PM me to see when and where.

Boog

 

Absolutely! Coming your way.

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I guess this is going to depend on the route the ISP takes. Ideally, they would certify this generically...allowing any instructors they approve to teach any course that covers the requirements in the bill. So, as long as your class includes the necessary parts, you would be fine.I could teach PPOTH, someone else could teach their specifically designed class.

 

What I don't want to see is an Illinois specific 8 hour course that is mandated to be taught to students by the ISP. I think there would be folly in thinking that what they develop would be superior to what exists in the market place already. I think that would make a Utah like class where there is no objective based learning...

 

I'm thinking based on comments made by those in the know before passage of the bill, NRA courses are going to be certified by the ISP. So, the question remains what else will work. I have no problem with them saying as long as your course meets the requirements of the law, you are good to go...with no lawyers or police. I just want to still be able to teach the NRA courses and have them count because I believe they are the best curriculum.

 

I guess what I am looking for is something like what was in 997...a list of qualified classes that starts with NRA PPITH, NRA PPOTH, and ends with "or any other course which includes: yada, yada, yada."

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E-mail I got from an instructor friend who had talked to the ISP...

 

"The State Police will not issue approval for Firearm training classes and training certificates to Conceal Carry instructors until September 7 th."

 

That's what I inferred from their FAQ page also.

 

How does a citizen apply for an Illinois Concealed Carry License?

The ISP will make applications available to the public by January 5, 2014.

 

Where can citizens obtain firearms training?

On September 7, 2013, the ISP will begin approval of certified firearms instructors and firearm training courses.

 

Different language for these two questions, which I assume to have meaning. Emphasis added.

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No reason, however, a Lawyer is not required to complete NRA Basic Pistol, so you might as well do the NRA class and issue the NRA Cert...

 

I agree but keep in mind If you do the NRA Pistol under the NRA guidelines, I believe you would also need the 8:1 Student to Instructor ratio correct? In a class of say 16, you need two NRA Instructors. 24 people, 3 instructors and so on. If you make it your own, your not tied down to that. We still intend on keeping those rough ratios but you aren't mandated. Food for thought.

For range time, it just takes longer with more folks. I don't remember a classroom limit.

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No reason, however, a Lawyer is not required to complete NRA Basic Pistol, so you might as well do the NRA class and issue the NRA Cert...

 

I agree but keep in mind If you do the NRA Pistol under the NRA guidelines, I believe you would also need the 8:1 Student to Instructor ratio correct? In a class of say 16, you need two NRA Instructors. 24 people, 3 instructors and so on. If you make it your own, your not tied down to that. We still intend on keeping those rough ratios but you aren't mandated. Food for thought.

For range time, it just takes longer with more folks. I don't remember a classroom limit.

There is none that I saw but in the last bill I thought it was 40. I might have missed it however. Anything beyond that your just asking for chaos
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E-mail I got from an instructor friend who had talked to the ISP...

 

"The State Police will not issue approval for Firearm training classes and training certificates to Conceal Carry instructors until September 7 th."

 

That is all well and fine; how does one apply for one of these certificates they are going to issuing on Sept 7th?

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E-mail I got from an instructor friend who had talked to the ISP...

 

"The State Police will not issue approval for Firearm training classes and training certificates to Conceal Carry instructors until September 7 th."

 

That is all well and fine; how does one apply for one of these certificates they are going to issuing on Sept 7th?

 

Like everything in the process we wait until the King's Men are darn good and ready ...

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E-mail I got from an instructor friend who had talked to the ISP...

 

"The State Police will not issue approval for Firearm training classes and training certificates to Conceal Carry instructors until September 7 th."

 

That is all well and fine; how does one apply for one of these certificates they are going to issuing on Sept 7th?

 

Like everything in the process we wait until the King's Men are darn good and ready ...

Right. We have to wait until ISP releases that information. Hopefully it will not be on September 6th. :ermm:
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