glockready Posted March 17, 2013 at 07:34 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 07:34 PM ALL MUST READ! THIS IS COMING OUR WAY IN ILLINOIS. DO NOT LET THE POLICE SEARCH YOUR HOME WITHOUT A WARRANT. KEEP YOUR SAFES LOCKED AND CALL YOUR ATTORNEY. STAND UP AGAINST THE POLICE STATES! http://deloc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8175 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted March 17, 2013 at 07:45 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 07:45 PM They are already trying that here in Illinois. Just ask our one and only SIGMA. I believe it was the Chicago PD and they weren't even in Chicago when they showed up on his door step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlJ Posted March 17, 2013 at 07:50 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 07:50 PM This was is Carneys Point New Jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriots & Tyrants Posted March 17, 2013 at 07:55 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 07:55 PM Congrats to the OP in Delaware he won. The sad part is the DCFS can do pretty much anything they want and YOU have to go to court and get your children back, on your dime/time. The one time the cops came to my door asking about a neighbor (turns out her caretaker was a wanted sex offender) I asked to talk with them outside, I used the excuse of I didn't want to let my cats out. The police have no right to enter your home without a warrant unless they believe someone is in imminent danger. If they want to get a warrant, let them, if they force their way in then you just hit the jackpot, get a good lawyer and sue the pants off of them. Only with pushback will law enforcement in this country back away from the "jack boot" tactics that seem to be all to common in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlJ Posted March 17, 2013 at 08:00 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 08:00 PM Our wives/husbands/partners or anyone else living in our homes should all know not to let law enforcement or other agency's in our homes without a warrant. They will use all sorts of tactics or threats to gain entry. Don't answer questions, don't go outside to talk and don't let them in without warrant, even and especially if you have done nothing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockready Posted March 17, 2013 at 08:33 PM Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 08:33 PM ALL MUST READ! THIS IS COMING OUR WAY IN ILLINOIS. DO NOT LET THE POLICE SEARCH YOUR HOME WITHOUT A WARRANT. KEEP YOUR SAFES LOCKED AND CALL YOUR ATTORNEY. STAND UP AGAINST THE POLICE STATES! http://deloc.org/for...php?f=13&t=8175This occurred in Carneys point NJ just for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS3987 Posted March 17, 2013 at 09:18 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 09:18 PM My wife knows no warrant, no entry. If they force anything and I'm not there, you bet your butt they'll get their pants sued off. Fortunately, the sheriffs in our area are pretty decent as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
es503IL Posted March 17, 2013 at 09:33 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 09:33 PM Congrats to the OP in Delaware he won. The sad part is the DCFS can do pretty much anything they want and YOU have to go to court and get your children back, on your dime/time. The one time the cops came to my door asking about a neighbor (turns out her caretaker was a wanted sex offender) I asked to talk with them outside, I used the excuse of I didn't want to let my cats out. The police have no right to enter your home without a warrant unless they believe someone is in imminent danger. If they want to get a warrant, let them, if they force their way in then you just hit the jackpot, get a good lawyer and sue the pants off of them. Only with pushback will law enforcement in this country back away from the "jack boot" tactics that seem to be all to common in 2013. Just to point out, thats not entirely true. There are several valid reasons LE can make entry without a warrant that fall under Exigent Circumstances. Just to name a few; prevention of destruction of evidence (Ker v. California/Kentucky v. King), hot pursuit (United States v. Santana/Warden v. Hayden i.e. suspect of a serious crime runs into a home while being directly observed by a pursuing LEO), observation of a crime being committed in plain view (United States v. Rhiger, US v. Cephas - however, there are restrictions Welsh v. Wisconsin), search for evidence of arson/cause of a fire after it is put out (Michigan v. Tyler).http://www.caselaw4cops.net/searchandseizure/exigent.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyGuy Posted March 17, 2013 at 10:30 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 10:30 PM Tell the NO, but don't physically resist is my motto. If they make entry when they don't have legal justification then any good lawyer should be able to get that evidence suppressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriots & Tyrants Posted March 17, 2013 at 10:36 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 10:36 PM Congrats to the OP in Delaware he won. The sad part is the DCFS can do pretty much anything they want and YOU have to go to court and get your children back, on your dime/time. The one time the cops came to my door asking about a neighbor (turns out her caretaker was a wanted sex offender) I asked to talk with them outside, I used the excuse of I didn't want to let my cats out. The police have no right to enter your home without a warrant unless they believe someone is in imminent danger. If they want to get a warrant, let them, if they force their way in then you just hit the jackpot, get a good lawyer and sue the pants off of them. Only with pushback will law enforcement in this country back away from the "jack boot" tactics that seem to be all to common in 2013. Just to point out, thats not entirely true. There are several valid reasons LE can make entry without a warrant that fall under Exigent Circumstances. Just to name a few; prevention of destruction of evidence (Ker v. California/Kentucky v. King), hot pursuit (United States v. Santana/Warden v. Hayden i.e. suspect of a serious crime runs into a home while being directly observed by a pursuing LEO), observation of a crime being committed in plain view (United States v. Rhiger, US v. Cephas - however, there are restrictions Welsh v. Wisconsin), search for evidence of arson/cause of a fire after it is put out (Michigan v. Tyler).http://www.caselaw4c...ure/exigent.htm I forgot about the whole destruction of evidence thing. Hot pursuit and observing a crime being committed are pretty common sense. I was working on the assumption we are talking about lawful homeowners here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tms119 Posted March 17, 2013 at 10:50 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 10:50 PM What are we supposed to do if we don't have a lawyer on the phone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyGuy Posted March 17, 2013 at 10:53 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 10:53 PM See my last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdhunter1 Posted March 17, 2013 at 11:02 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 11:02 PM What are we supposed to do if we don't have a lawyer on the phone?Find a 24 hour one in the phone book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyGuy Posted March 17, 2013 at 11:03 PM Share Posted March 17, 2013 at 11:03 PM Or find one this week and put their number in your phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS3987 Posted March 18, 2013 at 12:25 AM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 12:25 AM Or find one this week and put their number in your phone. Is there anything in particular we should have in mind when searching for a lawyer? This is something I have long thought about. We don't know any lawyers, because frankly we have not needed them for anything like this ever. But with the political and legal climate going the way it is, we should probably have one on speed dial. If you have to PM to let me know please do. I'd rather go through a recommendation here than a blind search in the phone book. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPistol Posted March 18, 2013 at 12:47 AM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 12:47 AM This happend ONLY because their state's DCFS saw a picture of a child with an "eeeeeeeeevil assault weapon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCityGuy Posted March 18, 2013 at 03:10 AM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 03:10 AM What are we supposed to do if we don't have a lawyer on the phone?Find a 24 hour one in the phone book. I posted to Todd a few weeks ago asking for a recommendation for a GOOD 2A attorney in Chicago. Would love to have someone who I have met, and who I can reach out to quickly is a similar situation )god forbid). Anyone know a good 2A attorney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmHand357 Posted March 18, 2013 at 03:18 AM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 03:18 AM What are we supposed to do if we don't have a lawyer on the phone?Find a 24 hour one in the phone book. I posted to Todd a few weeks ago asking for a recommendation for a GOOD 2A attorney in Chicago. Would love to have someone who I have met, and who I can reach out to quickly is a similar situation )god forbid). Anyone know a good 2A attorney? And for parts south too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted March 18, 2013 at 02:23 PM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 02:23 PM Whatever happened to that list of 2A friendly attorneys Todd was going to list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted March 18, 2013 at 03:31 PM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 03:31 PM The DCFS setup in Illinois is crazy. I had a friend go through a really bad divorce and his ex has called DCFS 5 times on him. He didn't want DCFS in his house so he went to their office, that generated a visit to the home by another DCFS worker on suspicion that the house was unsuitable for kids or something. I personally went through an unpleasant conversation with a school counselor and a follow-up unpleasant talk with a school nurse about guns because my daughter told a classmate that I had trophies for shooting guns. It's crazy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted March 18, 2013 at 04:45 PM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 04:45 PM That is crazy. I keep on trying to explain this to my wife. Some people beleive that being innocent of wrongdoing will be enough. But it is not enough. Do not let the government trample on your rights, b/c it will always end badly, even if you did nothing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS3987 Posted March 18, 2013 at 05:16 PM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 05:16 PM Whatever happened to that list of 2A friendly attorneys Todd was going to list? I would love to have some of those in my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwing Posted March 18, 2013 at 05:50 PM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 05:50 PM Whatever happened to that list of 2A friendly attorneys Todd was going to list? I would love to have some of those in my phone. Yes. Me too. Last I heard, Todd was still working on it. I think his job got pretty busy this year though. So hopefully he will have a chance to do this eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted March 18, 2013 at 05:51 PM Share Posted March 18, 2013 at 05:51 PM Being innocent is not enough - and sometimes it's not even relevant. Many police and prosecutors make decisions on which is easiest to get a conviction. An innocent person might be relatively easy to get a conviction on, and they'll try it. Illinois has sentenced innocent men to death for crimes they didn't commit - that's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
es503IL Posted March 19, 2013 at 05:17 PM Share Posted March 19, 2013 at 05:17 PM Todd posted his contact info for these type situations about a year ago... I put it into my phone as a CYOA type thing. I also bookmarked it. The thread can be found HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS3987 Posted March 19, 2013 at 05:36 PM Share Posted March 19, 2013 at 05:36 PM Todd posted his contact info for these type situations about a year ago... I put it into my phone as a CYOA type thing. I also bookmarked it. The thread can be found HERE I may be blind but it looks like he is still working on the list? I got his info and plan on printing out his post too. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted March 20, 2013 at 05:14 AM Share Posted March 20, 2013 at 05:14 AM http://www.examiner....-facebook-photo New Jersey officials, including police and the Department of Children and Families, are on the defensive today, after they raided the home of Shawn Moore, a firearms instructor for the National Rifle Association, demanding to see his guns after he posted a photo on Facebook of his son, Josh, 11, holding a rifle his father had given him as a birthday present. "Someone called family services about the photo,” said Evan Nappen, an attorney who represents Moore. “It led to an incredible, heavy-handed raid on his house. They wanted to see his gun safe, his guns and search his house. They even threatened to take his kids." The weapon, resembling a military-style assault rifle is actually a .22-caliber copy, says Moore, but, the family believes, it is the reason behind the visit to the Moore home in Carneys Point last Friday.According to Fox News, a spokesperson for the Department of Children and Families said, due to government regulations, they could not confirm or deny if the raid on the Moore home had actually taken place. "The department has a child abuse hotline for the state of New Jersey and anybody can make a call to that hotline," said spokesperson Kristen Brown. "We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry." Moore and his attorney contend, however, that the raid was a violation of his Second Amendment right, and that, in light of the recent focus on gun control legislation, the raid's focus was not child safety so much as gun ownership. "They said they wanted to see into my safe and see if my guns were registered," Moore said. "I said no; in New Jersey, your guns don't have to be registered with the state; it's voluntary. I knew once I opened that safe, there was no going back." When the police confirmed they did not have a warrant to search his home and after a social worker refused to identify herself, Moore asked the officials to leave.They adhered to his request. "I don't like what happened," Moore said. "You're not even safe in your own house. If they can just show up at any time and make you open safes and go through your house, that's not freedom; it's like tyranny." The police, said Nappen, wanted to inventory Moore's firearms. "We said no way, it’s not happening,” the attorney told FOX. “This is a guy who is completely credentialed and his son is also credentialed.” Nappen believes that what happened to the Moore family should serve as a warning to gun owners across the America. "To make someone go through this because he posted a picture of his son with a .22 rifle on his Facebook page is pretty outrageous," he said. “Does that mean that anyone who posts a picture like that has to consent to a home inspection and a gun inspection? I don’t think so." Nappen confirmed the Moores are considering taking legal action against the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cshipley92 Posted March 20, 2013 at 05:21 AM Share Posted March 20, 2013 at 05:21 AM http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35698&hl= I thought I'd read this somewhere before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzard Posted March 20, 2013 at 05:41 AM Share Posted March 20, 2013 at 05:41 AM Thttp://illinoiscarry...topic=35698&hl= I thought I'd read this somewhere before. That's OK, I hadn't seen it when it first got posted. Wouldn't posting gun pictures be like showing thieves what your house has to offer? I admit though, I would have worried about that before I thought the police and DCFS might show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS3987 Posted March 20, 2013 at 11:04 AM Share Posted March 20, 2013 at 11:04 AM The kid looked like he was handing the weapon properly, and had quite a grin on his face. I don't know how that picture could imply he was in any sort of danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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