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Wilson v. Cook County (Semi-Auto Gun Ban)


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#241 Sigma

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 09:53 PM

I got a weird feeling about this one for some reason
Exodus 22:2-3
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.-Abolt

Guns kill people just like beds get girls pregnant.

#242 Federal Farmer

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 10:55 AM

I got a weird feeling about this one for some reason


Weird-good or weird-bad?

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

--George Orwell

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#243 stm

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:40 PM

I got a weird feeling about this one for some reason


Weird-good or weird-bad?

Or weird-Gary-Busey?

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Edited by stm, 23 December 2011 - 12:41 PM.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#244 Druid

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 01:14 PM

I've talked with many well educated (lawyers/professors) gun-enthusiasts about this case, and there is definitely no consensus among them on how good or bad this case will end.

#245 bob

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:08 AM

I've talked with many well educated (lawyers/professors) gun-enthusiasts about this case, and there is definitely no consensus among them on how good or bad this case will end.



These kind of cases are a crap shoot. There is just no way to tell what SCOTUS is going to come up with. There is a lot of politics in judicial decisions, both internal and external, that make trailblazing cases hard to tell what might happen.

One would think the "arms in common use" wording in Heller would make this a no brainer.

But few thought that Roe V. Wade was a winner either. I had hoped that the tortured logic in Roe would eventually result in more respect from government for the basic privacy rights of citizens in other areas, but it has gone dramatically in the other way. Basically, it appears that the courts are saying the only privacy rights you have are WRT abortion. And that is pretty much the way governments at all levels have headed, with occassional exceptions from state legislatures. But even then, it is small exceptions here and there and no recognition of the basic right of citizens to be left alone from government instrusion into their lives.
bob

Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, cop, soldier, gunsmith, politician, plumber, electrician, or a professional practitioner of many of the other things I comment on in this forum.

The opinions expressed by this poster do not reflect the official stance of Illinois Carry. Apparently there was some confusion on the part of at least one person that it does, and I want to make things clear that my opinion is my own and that whatever the official stance of IC is or is not at present, it may or may not reflect my own opinion.

http://ilbob.blogspot.com/

#246 Bud

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:00 AM

These kind of cases are a crap shoot. There is just no way to tell what SCOTUS is going to come up with. There is a lot of politics in judicial decisions, both internal and external, that make trailblazing cases hard to tell what might happen.


This isn't a SCOTUS case (It's the IL supreme Court) and Roe v Wade was an entirely different set of Justices. I doubt seriously if Roe v. Wade would pass this SCOTUS.

and an abortion conversation will totally derail this thread.
Bud
 
 
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#247 Sigma

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:26 AM

IF Wilson wins can you imagine the next crap the county will come up with to prevent us from owning these human killing machines
Exodus 22:2-3
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.-Abolt

Guns kill people just like beds get girls pregnant.

#248 mauserme

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:40 AM

Hey bob, back in June you were really pushing the coming elections as the best way to reach our goal. You even stated in this thread that you would be happy to help.

Well my friend, here's your chance. If you take a look at my election survey thread you'll see how helpful you can be.

So I say jump right in - the water's fine.

#249 mikew

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 06:13 PM

Everyone should know that we have a forum member who is one of the plaintiffs in Wilson v Cook County.
Most of us know that already, and we have two plaintiffs from McDonald V Chicago on the forum.

#250 Danielm60660

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:08 AM

So if Wilson wins, what does this mean? Are semi autos going to be legal until and unless the SCOTUS reverses it? Could a guy move an AR into Chicago right after?
DM

#251 NakPPI

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:25 AM

My understanding is that they are appealing an order that dismissed the case. So if that is true, and plaintiffs win on appeal, the case would simply be sent to the trial court for further proceedings. The case would basically start from the beginning.

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Stung by the result of McDonald v. City of Chicago, 130 S. Ct. 3020 (2010), the City quickly enacted an ordinance that was too clever by half. Recognizing that a complete gun ban would no longer survive Supreme Court review, the City required all gun owners to obtain training that included one hour of live‐range instruction, and then banned all live ranges within City limits. This was not so much a nod to the importance of live‐range training as it was a thumbing of the municipal nose at the Supreme Court.

#252 Bud

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 10:29 AM

So if Wilson wins, what does this mean? Are semi autos going to be legal until and unless the SCOTUS reverses it? Could a guy move an AR into Chicago right after?
DM


If the Illinois Supreme Court throws out the Cook County ban, there is a very good likelihood that it is "game over" and the law would be gone. . The Cook County Board could have to wring their hands and rip great gobs of hair from their heads but there would be very little they could do about it. They could try and pass a new ordinance depending on how the decision is written.
Bud
 
 
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and the White Walkers are already attacking the cities



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#253 Sigma

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 02:49 PM

ha, budman said they could try to pass a new ordinance.
Its guaranteed, and will be our newest challenge
Exodus 22:2-3
If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.

Gun control is not about guns, it's about control. Once they have all the guns, they'll also have complete control.-Abolt

Guns kill people just like beds get girls pregnant.

#254 Danielm60660

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:13 AM

NakPPI and Budman, you have distinctly different answers. Can either clarify? I'm hoping for a Wilson win either way, but I hate to see this drag out for another 1.5 years.
Thanks,
DM

#255 Danielm60660

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 07:55 AM

Ok, I re-read some of the original posts. I think I'm squared away on it.
DM

#256 Druid

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:06 PM

Ready?
Tomorrow is a big day for this case. Oral arguments should begin tomorrow Wed. the 18th at approx. 9:30AM. We expect it to be over around 2:30pm. I'm told that afterwards, a video recording of the arguments will be posted online at the Supreme Court of Illinois website. A lot of great people have been working very hard on this case, and tomorrow we shall see how well it goes!

#257 abolt243

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:10 PM

Ready?
Tomorrow is a big day for this case. Oral arguments should begin tomorrow Wed. the 18th at approx. 9:30AM. We expect it to be over around 2:30pm. I'm told that afterwards, a video recording of the arguments will be posted online at the Supreme Court of Illinois website. A lot of great people have been working very hard on this case, and tomorrow we shall see how well it goes!


Good luck. Keep us posted.

Tim
Are you a member of the ISRA?? If not, why not?? Join over 18,000 other Illinois gun owners in the fight for your rights!!!

The Roman Empire fell due to a large, corrupt government, overspending, an overextended military, insecure borders, and the illegal immigration of Goths, barbarians (anyone who was not educated), and religious fanatics. Sound familiar?


"..it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.."
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#258 Molly B.

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:29 PM

Best of luck to you all!!! Thank you for taking on Cook County!!
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams

#259 Federal Farmer

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:01 PM

Ready?
Tomorrow is a big day for this case. Oral arguments should begin tomorrow Wed. the 18th at approx. 9:30AM. We expect it to be over around 2:30pm. I'm told that afterwards, a video recording of the arguments will be posted online at the Supreme Court of Illinois website. A lot of great people have been working very hard on this case, and tomorrow we shall see how well it goes!


We're with you!

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

--George Orwell

-- Certified something-or-other by various organizations and governmental entities.

#260 Howard Roark

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:01 PM

Ready?
Tomorrow is a big day for this case. Oral arguments should begin tomorrow Wed. the 18th at approx. 9:30AM. We expect it to be over around 2:30pm. I'm told that afterwards, a video recording of the arguments will be posted online at the Supreme Court of Illinois website. A lot of great people have been working very hard on this case, and tomorrow we shall see how well it goes!


Thank you for being a plaintiff (the lead plaintiff) on this. You're the man! I think we're going to win this one too.
Howard Roark
Yay guns!!! boooo anti-gunners!

#261 Mr. Fife

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 11:21 PM

Good luck! I hope to hear some good news next time I log in. Posted Image

Edited by Mr. Fife, 18 January 2012 - 01:55 PM.

Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
 
 

#262 JackTripper

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:03 AM

Stupid question-
This is in Springfield, right?
Come and knock on my door. I'll be waiting for you.

#263 Hatchet

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:59 AM

Best of luck my friend.
"Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." (Winston Churchill).

#264 stm

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 09:40 AM

Best of luck my friend.

Good luck!

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#265 Druid

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:13 AM

Stupid question-
This is in Springfield, right?


Yes.

#266 Druid

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:24 AM

A couple days ago the legal team held Moot Court (practice), and former Illinois Governor Jim Thompson played Judge.

#267 Tvandermyde

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:27 PM

My sources from the court room said:

that cook did a poor job of making arguements
That the 3 cook county judges were looking for a way not to rule on the 2A issue and remand it back for further hearings
That on a question from the chief judge, someone admitted thatthe gun inHeller would be illegal under the ordinance
That thomas could be the swing vote
Most likely outcome maybe ruling that the ordinance is preempted under the wildlife code or remand
While a 9 mm or .40 caliber bullet may or may not expand, it is an undeniable fact that a .45 caliber bullet will never shrink.
 
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#268 Federal Farmer

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:42 PM

My sources from the court room said:

that cook did a poor job of making arguements
That the 3 cook county judges were looking for a way not to rule on the 2A issue and remand it back for further hearings
That on a question from the chief judge, someone admitted thatthe gun inHeller would be illegal under the ordinance
That thomas could be the swing vote
Most likely outcome maybe ruling that the ordinance is preempted under the wildlife code or remand


Odd, as I recall the gun in Heller as being a 9-shot .22 revolver...

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men [and women] stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

--George Orwell

-- Certified something-or-other by various organizations and governmental entities.

#269 JackTripper

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:42 PM

My sources from the court room said:

that cook did a poor job of making arguements
That the 3 cook county judges were looking for a way not to rule on the 2A issue and remand it back for further hearings
That on a question from the chief judge, someone admitted thatthe gun inHeller would be illegal under the ordinance
That thomas could be the swing vote
Most likely outcome maybe ruling that the ordinance is preempted under the wildlife code or remand

Say hello to another year of waiting :thinking:
Come and knock on my door. I'll be waiting for you.

#270 NakPPI

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:47 PM

My reading of the appellate brief made me think that the trial judge erred on some basic procedural issues that should have resulted in a remand. If this goes back to the trial court based on messing up the code of civil procedure I will cry inside.

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Stung by the result of McDonald v. City of Chicago, 130 S. Ct. 3020 (2010), the City quickly enacted an ordinance that was too clever by half. Recognizing that a complete gun ban would no longer survive Supreme Court review, the City required all gun owners to obtain training that included one hour of live‐range instruction, and then banned all live ranges within City limits. This was not so much a nod to the importance of live‐range training as it was a thumbing of the municipal nose at the Supreme Court.




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