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Would the Florida incident where the man shot and killed a man who pushed him down be legal in Illinois?


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One reason for McGlockton not to run away when Drejka pulled a gun is that his girlfriend is still there.

 

If it's just you unarmed and a guy pulls a gun, would you run away?

 

If you're with your girlfriend/wife and your kids and a guy pulls a gun, would you run away and leave her and your kids behind?

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The chance of us ever being shot by another human or needing to use lethal force to defend ourselves is about the same as winning the lottery or getting struck by lightening....
[/purple]Unless you are a certain user here who has had the "need" to draw down defensively 5 or 6 times since CCW passed... [/purple]Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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The chance of us ever being shot by another human or needing to use lethal force to defend ourselves is about the same as winning the lottery or getting struck by lightening....
[/purple]Unless you are a certain user here who has had the "need" to draw down defensively 5 or 6 times since CCW passed... [/purple] Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

Are you taking my name in vain?

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The chance of us ever being shot by another human or needing to use lethal force to defend ourselves is about the same as winning the lottery or getting struck by lightening....

[/purple]Unless you are a certain user here who has had the "need" to draw down defensively 5 or 6 times since CCW passed... [/purple] Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Are you taking my name in vain?

Why? Does the shoe fit?

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

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I believe we all will agree and want the right to be able to use what may be deadly force to stop an attack that could reasonable result in our great bodily harm or deadth, but do we really want the legal right to respond after being shoved to the ground which did not result in great bodily harm but only hurt pride. Should we be able to respond with deadly force to punish our attacker for being so mean?

If the pusher had then double his fists quickly aproaching the downed man then i would support the shooting.

The video shows the pusher stopping his attack. He dropped his arms just standing there between his woman and her attacker.

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Watching the video at my desk, I agree the shoot does not look like the defensive situation most of us would support. However, there is only 5 seconds between the push to the ground and the shot. Given the disparity of physical size etc. and the adrenaline flowing I cannot pass judgment on the decision to draw and fire given that five seconds.

 

Nonetheless, Mass Ayob has frequently opined that if you choose to carry a firearm for defensive purposes you cannot create the situation where you may need it. You must avoid conflict and not instigate it. You cannot start a confrontation even if it is warranted. Simple answer, if someone is parked illegally, call a cop.

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Since none of us know what was being said between any parties, it should be difficult for any of us to make a conclusion. For all we know the dead guy could have told him he was going to get a beat down. He could have said stay away from his chick and nothing more. He could have been inviting him over for dinner to hash out the issue. We can all take a guess at it.

 

Had the driver not parked in the handicapped spot illegally to begin with, dude would likely still be alive today. I'd guess the shooter will get off any charges based solely on the fact that the was physically assaulted and at that point was in fear for his life. There was nothing illegal or dangerous about him walking up to the car and telling them they were parked illegally. What would the drivers response been if it were a cop telling them about their illiterate parking?

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I agree to pulling the gun. I do not agree with pulling the trigger.

If he (the pusher) had merely charged at him (the shooter) in a threatening manner, would you agree with drawing the firearm - but not firing - if he (the pusher) stopped advancing?

 

if the pusher stops advancing the immediate threat ends.

The difference between a good guy and bad guy is the good guy does not. look for an excuse to do harm. This may place him at a disadvantage but he stays a good guy even though harmed.

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I'll just say one thing about his. If you see someone in a handicapped parking space and it bothers you enough that you have to take action, let your fingers do the walking and call 911. The police will come. It's their job. They will issue a citation or they won't. Let them deal with it.

I carry a gun. I'm not a law enforcement officer. I carry the gun to defend myself, my family, my friends, compatriots, and companions. I may or may not choose to use my gun to defend the lives of strangers. We all know the risks involved with not knowing who is really the victim and who is the attacker. If I see a crime occurring that does not immediately require an armed response to save a life, I don't get involved 100% of the time. The police get paid to deal with parking issues, traffic violations, property crimes, etc.

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I'll just say one thing about his. If you see someone in a handicapped parking space and it bothers you enough that you have to take action, let your fingers do the walking and call 911. The police will come. It's their job. They will issue a citation or they won't. Let them deal with it.

 

I carry a gun. I'm not a law enforcement officer. I carry the gun to defend myself, my family, my friends, compatriots, and companions. I may or may not choose to use my gun to defend the lives of strangers. We all know the risks involved with not knowing who is really the victim and who is the attacker. If I see a crime occurring that does not immediately require an armed response to save a life, I don't get involved 100% of the time. The police get paid to deal with parking issues, traffic violations, property crimes, etc.

 

Exactly. If this guy hadn't appointed himself the parking lot police, everyone would've gone home to their families that evening.

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The chance of us ever being shot by another human or needing to use lethal force to defend ourselves is about the same as winning the lottery or getting struck by lightening....

[/purple]Unless you are a certain user here who has had the "need" to draw down defensively 5 or 6 times since CCW passed... [/purple] Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Are you taking my name in vain?

Why? Does the shoe fit?

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

I could tell you where I could fit the shoe, but you wouldn't like it.

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I have handicapped license plates on one of my cars. Some days I am doing better than others and it might appear to a casual observer that I am not handicapped. I have had occasional comments or dirty looks when walking from my parked car into a store, but no one yet has shoved me to the ground or created any sort of physical altercation. But I think that at my age and condition, were I pushed to the ground I would likely feel seriously threatened and might well feel the need and justification to draw my gun. What happens after that might well be just as much influenced by fear and adrenaline as it is by the real action or non action of the person who shoved me.

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I'll just say one thing about his. If you see someone in a handicapped parking space and it bothers you enough that you have to take action, let your fingers do the walking and call 911. The police will come. It's their job. They will issue a citation or they won't. Let them deal with it.

Bull excrement! I have called the cops several times in various jurisdictions to report cars without handicap plates or placards parked in handicap parking spaces and have never scene a cop respond to the call and I've waited as long as 45 minutes. Most people that park in handicap spaces without the proper plate or placard know that they will be long gone before a cop shows up to write them a ticket.

 

I was at one place and some guy (no handicap plate or placard) parked his late model 'Vette in the handicapped parking space. A guy in a wheelchair got out of his van and pasted one of these in the center of his driver side window. I wanted to stick around to see the look on the jerk's face when he got back to his car but my wife insisted we leave.

ignorance_is_not_a_disability_sticker-rc

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I'll just say one thing about his. If you see someone in a handicapped parking space and it bothers you enough that you have to take action, let your fingers do the walking and call 911. The police will come. It's their job. They will issue a citation or they won't. Let them deal with it.

Bull excrement! I have called the cops several times in various jurisdictions to report cars without handicap plates or placards parked in handicap parking spaces and have never scene a cop respond to the call and I've waited as long as 45 minutes. Most people that park in handicap spaces without the proper plate or placard know that they will be long gone before a cop shows up to write them a ticket.

 

I was at one place and some guy (no handicap plate or placard) parked his late model 'Vette in the handicapped parking space. A guy in a wheelchair got out of his van and pasted one of these in the center of his driver side window. I wanted to stick around to see the look on the jerk's face when he got back to his car but my wife insisted we leave.

ignorance_is_not_a_disability_sticker-rc

 

 

I hope it was the good stickum that's really hard to remove.

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There was one story about this that I read where the manager of the store commented that the shooter had hassled other customers in the past.

It sounds like the shooter was a self-righteous, officious busy-body with a history of confronting others.

It also boils down to one thing - if he hadn't been hassling the woman in the handicapped spot, nothing would have happened.

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I think this shooting was justified, but avoidable.

This incident is a reminder of the fundamental principles of armed self defense. You do not start arguments, You do not settle scores. You retreat if possible. You are not a cop!

 

The shooter should not have accosted anyone about parking in an handicapped space. A couple of incidents in my ignorant past showed that people who park illegally have little tolerance for criticism. Things can get out of hand very quickly. Let it go! Cops can handle parking tickets.

 

I have thoroughly read the Florida statutes at least twice (on my second renewal), and it is clear that nobody crying about "Stand Your Ground" has ever cracked that book. It's hard to retreat when "Stand Your Ground" becomes "On the Ground." It doesn't matter who started the event, or who annoyed whom once someone escalates the encounter. You can meet insults with insults, but pushing someone to the ground is battery. It does not appear that the pusher was retreating. He stood facing the shooter with his arms spread like a wrestler. He did not turn and retreat until shot. Furthermore there was a second adult male facing the shooter in the same stance. Two on one is a major escalating factor. The second man turned and ran on sight of the gun.

 

I think I would be justified if assaulted or battered for wearing a red "MAGA" cap, but I'm not going to test that theory either. There is no limit to what can provoke some people, you don't need to help.

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I'll just say one thing about his. If you see someone in a handicapped parking space and it bothers you enough that you have to take action, let your fingers do the walking and call 911. The police will come. It's their job. They will issue a citation or they won't. Let them deal with it.

Bull excrement! I have called the cops several times in various jurisdictions to report cars without handicap plates or placards parked in handicap parking spaces and have never scene a cop respond to the call and I've waited as long as 45 minutes. Most people that park in handicap spaces without the proper plate or placard know that they will be long gone before a cop shows up to write them a ticket.

 

I was at one place and some guy (no handicap plate or placard) parked his late model 'Vette in the handicapped parking space. A guy in a wheelchair got out of his van and pasted one of these in the center of his driver side window. I wanted to stick around to see the look on the jerk's face when he got back to his car but my wife insisted we leave.

ignorance_is_not_a_disability_sticker-rc

 

It is my understanding that since most parking lots are private property, the police cannot enforce handicap parking unless the store owner request it.

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All the people involved have zero common sense and this incident was so easily avoidable if people had better communication skills but if you batter a person on the street that person should have the right to use deadly force. Whether you are pushed to the ground or are punched in the face by idiots playing the knockout game.

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I'll just say one thing about his. If you see someone in a handicapped parking space and it bothers you enough that you have to take action, let your fingers do the walking and call 911. The police will come. It's their job. They will issue a citation or they won't. Let them deal with it.

 

Bull excrement! I have called the cops several times in various jurisdictions to report cars without handicap plates or placards parked in handicap parking spaces and have never scene a cop respond to the call and I've waited as long as 45 minutes. Most people that park in handicap spaces without the proper plate or placard know that they will be long gone before a cop shows up to write them a ticket.

 

I was at one place and some guy (no handicap plate or placard) parked his late model 'Vette in the handicapped parking space. A guy in a wheelchair got out of his van and pasted one of these in the center of his driver side window. I wanted to stick around to see the look on the jerk's face when he got back to his car but my wife insisted we leave.

ignorance_is_not_a_disability_sticker-rc

It is my understanding that since most parking lots are private property, the police cannot enforce handicap parking unless the store owner request it.

Police do it as a matter of course. Most commerical areas want police patrols/watch/protection/whatever and give permission in advance for police to enforce the law in their parking lots. That's why you frequently see squad cars driving around in them.

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if you batter a person on the street that person should have the right to use deadly force.

 

 

Justification of deadly force is based more on what is transpiring and what is likely to transpire and less on what has transpired.

 

If someone stabs you, then drops the knife, puts their hands up and backs away - you're going to have a rough time mounting an affirmative defense justifying a shoot

 

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?ActID=1876&SeqStart=8200000&SeqEnd=9700000

 

A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.

 

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The pause may be due to reassessing the situation.

From an Illinois stand point, if I were a judge or juror there`s a lot about this shooting that bothers me. I would like the answer to a few questions, the pause before shooting is one of them. The first question I would want answered is: The male took his 5 year old son into the store with him, when he exited he left the child behind, WHY? Did the female summon him because she felt threatened by the self appointed parking guard? With what the male knew at the time did he believe the parking guard was acting in the role of aggressor and about to attack the female?

 

Back to the pause, one of my instructors commented that pause was time for the shooter to take careful aim and execute the male. It was not a panic shot. His point of view was the male was shot for something he did, not something he was about to do.

 

I would hate to be on that jury knowing what I know now. Too many unanswered questions.

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