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Who is standing in the way

kurt555gs

By kurt555gs
in National Politics

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kurt555gs Member

kurt555gs

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I was just reading the Open Carry Texas Facebook page and saw this posting:

 

"A quick update on open carry legislation in Texas. As many of you know, the Texas legislature only meets every two years. Open Carry Texas was founded after the close of the 2013 legislature and our members have been putting the past 15 months to good use raising support and an army of volunteers and voters. While our legislature doesn't meet again until January 2015, we have been working feverishly at the local level in the primaries and run up to the elections ensuring we have pro-carry support after November. We have so much support for open carry of handgun legislature next year, the question isn't whether or not we'll have open carry. The question now is what open carry will look like: licensed or unlicensed. Our position has always been and will always be that we won't accept the licensing away of our rights. We have been told by some so-called pro-gun candidates that "we're not going to be able get unlicensed carry right off the bat." Let us be clear: we will not compromise! We will not accept anything less than uninfringed respect for our rights. There is absolutely NO REASON that we can't be the 31st state to allow unlicensed open carry. NONE. But, a main reason we may only get licensed open carry is because those "protectors of the 2nd Amendment" we know as the NRA and TSRA refuse to fight for unlicensed carry. The two groups that claim to be the powerhouses in Texas won't throw their weight behind unlicensed carry. So, we have partnered with Gun Owners of America and National Association for Gun Rights who won't compromise on our rights. We are a grassroots organization of Texans in EVERY SINGLE DISTRICT...and we vote. We were already key in swinging four primaries towards pro-unlicensed carry candidates."

 

I think they have correctly identified the groups that have been and are now standing in the way to get unlicensed open carry passed in Texas. I think the same issues are present in Illinois. I don't know how successful they will be in achieving 100% of their goal. But I hope they can. Unlicensed open carry is the foundation of the 2nd amendment.

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spec5 Member

spec5

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And, if you have a concealed carry license you can go right past the metal detectors and sit in the gallery watching the Texas legislature while carrying.

 

Why can't we here? Don't they trust us?

Kurt we can't even carry in a restroom at a rest stop or in an outhouse in a park. So no they don't trust us.
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TimGiblin Member

TimGiblin

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I agree with them.

 

The only OC concession I'd make is condition 1 handguns need to be in an active tension holster. Thumb breaks safarilands even serpas. Other than that go ahead and carry.

 

Safety is a momentary choice. Prior performance and certification are completely irrelevant.

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KarlJ Member

KarlJ

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Pretty sure our founders didn't have retension holsters when they drafted and ratified the constitution.

I'm also positive they meant exactly what they said in "the RIGHT of the PEOPLE to KEEP and BEAR ARMS shall NOT be INFRINGED.

I don't understand all the confusion, seems pretty straight forward to me

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C0untZer0 Member

C0untZer0

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When I think about who is standing in the way of open carry in illinois the first person I think of is:

 

Illinois Speaker of the House Mike Madigan.

 

The second person I think of is:

 

Illinois Senate President John J. Cullerton.

 

Then probably in no particular order:

 

Lou Lang, Michael J. Zalewski, Eddie Acevedo, Kwame Raoul, Kelly Cassidy, Barbara Flynn Currie, Monique Davis, Scott Drury, Ken Dunkin, Sara Feigenholtz, Mary Flowers, Naomi Jakobsson (although she won't run again), Dan Kotowski, and Antonio Munoz.

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KarlJ Member

KarlJ

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Maybe our reps and senators and other politicians should have to complete a constitutional bootcamp before they swear to uphold it.

They should be able to show loyalty to our constitution and competency in practicing our bill of rights.

 

Now let's take that "maybe" and replace it with "mandatory"

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TimGiblin Member

TimGiblin

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Pretty sure our founders didn't have retension holsters when they drafted and ratified the constitution.

I'm also positive they meant exactly what they said in "the RIGHT of the PEOPLE to KEEP and BEAR ARMS shall NOT be INFRINGED.

I don't understand all the confusion, seems pretty straight forward to me

indeed not. And I would refuse your entry for Mexican carrying a handgun into my store for my customers safety. Your arguments crap they didn't have guns that a 4 year olds finger would set it off. With flashpans they weren't exactly condition 1 walking around.

 

If you think walking around with an IPSC rig isn't beyond retarded and store owners should have to let them in your ridiculous. Pre revolutionary war you'd have to set the hammer down before walking in somewhere and often clear the flash pan.

 

I think no one should be able to ban oc with a retention holster barring metal detectors and armed guards and with those lockers should be provided. Retention holster carrying should be a protected class.

 

Safety is a momentary choice. Prior performance and certification are completely irrelevant.

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KarlJ Member

KarlJ

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The reason we are now fighting to recapture and retain our rights as outlined in the bill of rights is because at some point we allowed opinion to turn a right into a privelage.

Bureaucrats decided that the commoners were to irresponsible to practice some rights, so they've been regulated away from us.

I'm am a responsible citizen, and just like a million other gun owners, I don't need some bureocrat questioning my integrity. We can keep our right and be trusted to practice them responsibly. You can keep your regulations, they only promote a privelaged class.

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lockman Member

lockman

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I agree with them.

 

The only OC concession I'd make is condition 1 handguns need to be in an active tension holster. Thumb breaks safarilands even serpas. Other than that go ahead and carry.

 

Safety is a momentary choice. Prior performance and certification are completely irrelevant.

 

That would eliminate all western style rigs. What may be politically desirable in Cook County may not be an issue or concern in rural Illinois or while about in the field. Leave it a personal choice. If your worried about a snatch, the snatch or attempt to do so is the criminal offense not the mode of carry or lack of retrieval retarding mechanisms on the part of a carrier.

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kurt555gs Member

kurt555gs

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TimGiblin, would you personally open carry? I see you are concerned about someone taking your gun if you did. I would suggest that if it's a concern of yours, by all means wear a retention holster. It's not a concern of mine in the slightest. Someone taking my gun isn't even on the radar and I open carry wherever it's legal. Also I generally open carry a big bore revolver in a Simply Rugged Cattleman's holster. Not something tactical. If that is as concern of yours then it's should be your choice to address it. But I have no wish to see any regulation on how to open carry.
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tkroenlein Member

tkroenlein

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Even better than an active retention holster, we could oufit each firearm with a user worn proximity activator or why not a 5 point contact biometric lock with a 3 second time delay to make sure the weapon is correctly held and aimed before it will fire? See the path that we've ventured down by making a small concession in the name of safety?

 

Where firearms are concerned, we should never offer concessions. We will get the restrictions from our adversaries anyway; we need not offer any footholds for them to work against us.

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Tango7 Member

Tango7

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Maybe our reps and senators and other politicians should have to complete a constitutional bootcamp before they swear to uphold it.

They should be able to show loyalty to our constitution and competency in practicing our bill of rights.

Now let's take that "maybe" and replace it with "mandatory"

How about modifying the definition of treason (720 ILCS 5/30 in the statutes) to include enacting, proposing or voting for any law that infringe on enumerated individual rights in any fashion?

 

And for those that have forgotten what crimes constitute forcible felonies, treason is the very first on the list, even before burglary, arson and murder.

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BIGDEESUL Member

BIGDEESUL

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TimGiblin, would you personally open carry? I see you are concerned about someone taking your gun if you did. I would suggest that if it's a concern of yours, by all means wear a retention holster. It's not a concern of mine in the slightest. Someone taking my gun isn't even on the radar and I open carry wherever it's legal. Also I generally open carry a big bore revolver in a Simply Rugged Cattleman's holster. Not something tactical. If that is as concern of yours then it's should be your choice to address it. But I have no wish to see any regulation on how to open carry.

Not even being on the radar is a failure of situational awareness. Not that you have to be paranoid, but you need to be ready.

 

Not everybody is concerned about the same things, but someone grabbing your gun should definitely be a concern.

 

Do you believe it couldn't happen Kurt?

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C0untZer0 Member

C0untZer0

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Here is what you do, you OC a big ol honking revolver on your weak side, and you put empty cases in the chambers, so it looks like it is loaded. Make sure you have a lanyard on the revolver and if you can conceal the lanyard, even better.

 

You position your loaded EDC - concealed, on your strong side.

 

Bad guy comes along and takes your very conspicuous OC revolver and tries to shoot you with it... well you can see how this works.

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lockman Member

lockman

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TimGiblin, would you personally open carry? I see you are concerned about someone taking your gun if you did. I would suggest that if it's a concern of yours, by all means wear a retention holster. It's not a concern of mine in the slightest. Someone taking my gun isn't even on the radar and I open carry wherever it's legal. Also I generally open carry a big bore revolver in a Simply Rugged Cattleman's holster. Not something tactical. If that is as concern of yours then it's should be your choice to address it. But I have no wish to see any regulation on how to open carry.

Not even being on the radar is a failure of situational awareness. Not that you have to be paranoid, but you need to be ready.

 

Not everybody is concerned about the same things, but someone grabbing your gun should definitely be a concern.

 

Do you believe it couldn't happen Kurt?

It can happen and it has happened but the probability must be put in perspective and treated accordingly. I place the probability around winning the Powerball and getting struck by lightning on the same day. I use a retention holster when I OC, but I would not advocate that requirement.

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Tango7 Member

Tango7

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It can happen and it has happened but the probability must be put in perspective and treated accordingly. I place the probability around winning the Powerball and getting struck by lightning on the same day. I use a retention holster when I OC, but I would not advocate that requirement.

The anti-OC crowd often use the threat of a grabbed weapon in support of their position.

 

Not that I'm a huge fan of it, but are there statistics or news stories that support this belief, or is it like the anti-2A believers who feel that more legislatively required training hours somehow means better qualified carriers?

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domin8 Member

domin8

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Maybe our reps and senators and other politicians should have to complete a constitutional bootcamp before they swear to uphold it.

They should be able to show loyalty to our constitution and competency in practicing our bill of rights.

Now let's take that "maybe" and replace it with "mandatory"

How about modifying the definition of treason (720 ILCS 5/30 in the statutes) to include enacting, proposing or voting for any law that infringe on enumerated individual rights in any fashion?

And for those that have forgotten what crimes constitute forcible felonies, treason is the very first on the list, even before burglary, arson and murder.

Idiots. I owe no allegiance to the State of Illinois, therefore I couldn't possibly be convicted of treason. Seems to me that only Illinois residents could be charged and convicted of treason.

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kurt555gs Member

kurt555gs

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Just mention open carry and the anti-OC's jump out with the same stuff every time. I'm guessing they all have the same words in a document on their desktop so they can copy / paste them.

 

  • You will be first to be shot at the 7-11
  • You lose tactical advantage
  • You cause unnecessary 911 calls
  • You cause businesses to ban concealed carriers that bought and paid of the privilege
  • Your gun will be stolen by someone sneaking up and should be required to have retention holsters like the Constitution says

 

None of which has any merit in the real world whatsoever, and none of these things are in fact experienced by those that actually open carry.

 

It's just code word stuff.

 

I think they need to come up with some new excuses.

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