CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 23, 2020 at 03:19 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 03:19 PM On a previous post the person claimed he was denied the ability to purchase a gun from a dealer due to having a medical cannabis card. Is this really happening? What about recreational cannabis? We need to know about all these traps so we can avoid them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted January 23, 2020 at 03:23 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 03:23 PM This is true and has been since the medical marijuana law was passed. It is the same for recreational marijuana, you can't legally purchase from a federally licensed dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custodian7138 Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:46 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 04:46 PM Is this really happening? Yes... I was denied... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchenryill Posted January 23, 2020 at 05:31 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 05:31 PM Still illegal per federal law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custodian7138 Posted January 23, 2020 at 05:34 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 05:34 PM Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted January 23, 2020 at 06:24 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 06:24 PM Why oh why can't people just be satisfied being recreational drunks instead of recreational dopers? Life is then so much simpler - lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitchDoctor Posted January 23, 2020 at 06:53 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 06:53 PM Why oh why can't people just be satisfied being recreational drunks instead of recreational dopers? Life is then so much simpler - lolAnd look a lot cheaper too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 23, 2020 at 08:15 PM Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 08:15 PM From what I understand purchasing recreational cannabis is not in a data base so there would be no way to verify that you use it. I find this policy ironic since if you talk to violent felons in prison a large percentage of them committed murders, rapes, robberies, etc. when they were drunk on alcohol. Alcohol causes far more mayhem than cannabis yet it is legally ok as far as not disqualifying you to purchase a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted January 23, 2020 at 08:32 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 08:32 PM From what I understand purchasing recreational cannabis is not in a data base so there would be no way to verify that you use it. From people I know Dispensaries will initially check your state ID in an app that validates its authentic. Its not connected to any online service and doesnt store information. Then your data is stored in a second system the dispensary uses for compliance of the limit sold. This system is owned by the dispensary and not a central database. But the state can audit this system whenever they want. So recreational users are free from active prosecution or denial by linked databases but if targeted for active prosecution all theyd need to know is where you went to a dispensary and where you bought your guns, request both records, and find you in violation of the 4473. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeetbreak Posted January 23, 2020 at 08:40 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 08:40 PM The ISRA had an artical on this subject. https://www.isra.org/News/TabId/1068/ArtMID/4612/ArticleID/43066/Cannabis-and-Your-Second-Amendment-Rights.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyk101 Posted January 23, 2020 at 09:22 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 09:22 PM The ISRA had an artical on this subject. https://www.isra.org/News/TabId/1068/ArtMID/4612/ArticleID/43066/Cannabis-and-Your-Second-Amendment-Rights.aspxThis is an opinion piece and also wrong. Form 4473 is a Federal form and follows Federal law. Question 11e is very clear in that even if marijuana is legalized in your state, it is still a Federal crime. If you answer no on that Federal form and however it becomes evident that you are a user of marijuana, you have committed perjury and that is a Federal violation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo69 Posted January 23, 2020 at 10:38 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 10:38 PM Just another form of gun control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 23, 2020 at 10:40 PM Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 10:40 PM After reading the link it says that you are not an unlawful user if you use cannabis in Illinois according to the law so i don't think you would be committing perjury on the form if you say no to using illegal narcotics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyk101 Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:01 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:01 PM After reading the link it says that you are not an unlawful user if you use cannabis in Illinois according to the law so i don't think you would be committing perjury on the form if you say no to using illegal narcotics. It's a Federal form following Federal rules and the instructions in question 11e are very clear that it is Federally unlawful even if your state legalizes marijuana. I just don't understand why that is so hard to comprehend. If it was an Illinois form than you might have a strong argument. But if you wish to go through an FFL who is Federally licensed and required to follow Federal rules and laws, then you have to follow Federal procedures and laws. This requires that Federal Form 4473 be completed and answered truthfully and when you sign it, you affirm that you answered all the Federally asked questions correctly and honestly. And lying according to the instructions on that Federal 4473 form could cause you grief in the future. The only way around "officially" not having to violate Federal laws is to purchase a firearm in the state via a private person to person transaction which doesnt require a Federal Form 4473 to be filled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:04 PM Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:04 PM Its illegal under Federal law but they don't have jurisdiction in Illinois where it is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrlivin2 Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:20 PM Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:20 PM I can assure you that the ATF has the authority to investigate violations of Title 18 in Illinois. Do not confuse Federal law with State law. Doing so could end very poorly for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:45 PM Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 at 11:45 PM As a analogy ICE has authority to arrest illegal immigrants but Illinois Police don't cooperate with them because illegal immigrants are legal in Illinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:03 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:03 AM Reports I read indicated presented state DL or ID is checked with state to verify ID is valid. How can they do this without connecting to a state database online? You dont think they are using any kind of transactional backup? Dispensaries will initially check your state ID in an app that validates its authentic. Its not connected to any online service and doesnt store information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:22 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:22 AM Don’t we have this exact discussion in two other threads?And yes it’s a shame, but it’s not changing.Unless someone takes their lottery winnings and files a lawsuit. Same person, same style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:26 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:26 AM If you recreationally smoke dope IMHO you ARE a dope - a dope who would in FACT be committing perjury on the FEDERAL 4473 form if they denied using said Federally illegal substance. CRIKEY! What is so difficult to understand folks? Wuzzup? Smokin' too much wacky weed to focus? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:30 AM No actually I'm a civil libertarian and I believe it is a civil rights violation to deny someone their gun rights for partaking in a legal activity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:31 AM Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:31 AM In my opinion if you drink alcohol you are far more dangerous to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHICAGO HANDGUN OWNER Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:33 AM Author Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:33 AM Also if you ask 6 different lawyers about this you will get 12 different opinions so what we need is a law suit to establish a court decision precedent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishjames Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:44 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:44 AM Trollin', trollin', trollin'Keep this subject goin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted January 24, 2020 at 02:32 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 02:32 AM If anyone, not me, but anyone here had a dime for very post about a lawsuit and that person doesnt start one, that person would be able to retire!Every thing in do dirty needs a lawsuit, thats what society does.But very few ever do it, they wait, yes just like me, for someone else to start one........ Ah spanishjames remembers yes?Thought maybe I was the only one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted January 24, 2020 at 04:54 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 04:54 AM Reports I read indicated presented state DL or ID is checked with state to verify ID is valid. How can they do this without connecting to a state database online? You dont think they are using any kind of transactional backup?Dispensaries will initially check your state ID in an app that validates its authentic. Its not connected to any online service and doesnt store information.Its the same application that bars and casinos use. Basically a glorified bar book for the digital age. Compatible with all state IDs because out of staters can purchase, but their max purchase cap is less than an in state resident. You dont need to be connected to any state database to get the data from the barcode on the back. But after theyve checked it with the app the other database they do put your info in, while not a state database, is state auditable at any given time. It has to be a 2 part process because you must be 21 to be in the dispensary, but just because youre in one doesnt mean youre purchasing anything. The data in the auditable database is entered at time of sale with quantity of sale. So if audited this leaves a pretty incriminating paper trail. Id imagine FFL holders are going to have the biggest target on their backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyk101 Posted January 24, 2020 at 04:55 AM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 04:55 AM Also if you ask 6 different lawyers about this you will get 12 different opinions so what we need is a law suit to establish a court decision precedent So explain to me exactly why you started this topic and why you find the need to argue about the legitimate answers you have received? You were given the proper answers yet you refuse to believe what you were told. And on the topic of illegal immigrants, you got that one wrong too. Illegal immigrants are not legal in Illinois, they are still in violation of Federal law and still illegal no matter where they live in this country. The Federal agency ICE is totally justified in arresting them as it is again a Federal violation anywhere in the US. And after stating that Illinois Police don't cooperate shows that your legal knowledge is very lacking. You really need to brush on the differences between Federal and State law and the differences between them. Being a Libertarian as you say, you are allowed to have your views and beliefs but unless you are in a position to influence and/or change the laws, you still need to abide by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:53 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:53 PM If you recreationally smoke dope IMHO you ARE a dope - a dope who would in FACT be committing perjury on the FEDERAL 4473 form if they denied using said Federally illegal substance. CRIKEY! What is so difficult to understand folks? Wuzzup? Smokin' too much wacky weed to focus? lol Gee I haven’t used pot in over 25 years, will I still perjure myself on 4473? How about 10?, 5?, 1? Or 3 weeks? Once a user always a user? So many questions. Btw the above is hypothetical. ^ this *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:57 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 12:57 PM The feds do not as a rule get involved unless linked to international, interstate transportation and distribution or jointly with state or local authorities. ^ this *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:40 PM Share Posted January 24, 2020 at 01:40 PM The feds do not as a rule get involved unless linked to international, interstate transportation and distribution or jointly with state or local authorities. ^ this ***Following along on the theory that something is only a crime if I get caught? "Once a user always a user?" ? No, and since the applicant is the ONLY one the Feds are going to accuse of perjury I defer to said signer of the 4473 to determine IF they meet the criteria set forth on that Federal form. Illinois law says wacky weed is now 'legal', the Feds say it isn't. Life is a series of choices and consequences. I make mine, you make yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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