ISP on FOIDs and cannabis

[mab22]

I posted this in one of the other weed threads. 430 ILCS 65/8 Grounds for revocation or denial.

 

 

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=043000650K8

 

Of particular importance, section (n) lists one of the conditions that are grounds for revocation or denial:

 

(n) A person who is prohibited from acquiring or possessing firearms or firearm ammunition by any Illinois State statute or by federal law;

 

 

So, under the FOID law, the usage or possession of cannabis remains a disqualifier for FOID, and by extension CCL, as cannabis usage and possession remains a disqualifier for firearm and ammunition possession under federal law. There are no exceptions listed for this, and there are certainly no statutes challenging the supremacy of federal law.

^ I think you found it....

[Flynn]

This receipt was posted today on a local Facebook page in regards to people complaining about the taxes, something to NOTE I'm the one that did the line edits, the original receipt and image had the persons full name, customer ID as well as transaction ID, I would hate for these non-existant records to fall into the po-pos hands somehow.

 

[Nanook]

I heard much the same about the taxes. I don't have any use for the stuff, but man they're really dinging those who wish to partake.

 

It was $15 per gram of the smoking type, and then a lot for gummies and the oil for vape pens.

 

Like I say, it's not for me, coffee is all I need and just in the morning.

 

I'm sure the state will be very frugal in handling the windfall.

[tkroenlein]

I heard much the same about the taxes. I don't have any use for the stuff, but man they're really dinging those who wish to partake.

 

It was $15 per gram of the smoking type, and then a lot for gummies and the oil for vape pens.

 

Like I say, it's not for me, coffee is all I need and just in the morning.

 

I'm sure the state will be very frugal in handling the windfall.

They'll probably pay back firearm services.

[Tip]

Nope, they’ll rake it into the general fund and then put a “fee” on it because they don’t have enough resources & staff to maintain the process.....

[Yas]

The potential for issues in retrospect seem very dangerious for those that are willing to risk their FOID's and CCL's.

 

I look back on the on again and off again that the ISP intrepretations of law and policy's that change at the drop of a hat or a meer whim at headquarters in Springfield.

 

An example would be Waiting periods on transfers for firearms. Recently asked here at Illinois carry just this week. When does the 3 day waiting period start?

Even though we've had this from as far back as 2010

 

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22946&pid=227088&st=0&&do=findComment&comment=227088

 

 

Illinois prohibits any person from delivering a firearm prior to the expiration of the statutory waiting periods, which are 24 hours for long guns and 72 hours for handguns. 720 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/24-3(A)(g). The Department of State Police must approve the transfer or inform the dealer of the applicant's ineligibility within these time periods. 430 Ill. Comp. Stat. 65/3.1; 720 Ill. Comp. Stat. 5/24-3(A)(g). The waiting periods begin to run at the time an application to purchase the firearm is made. Id. "Application" is defined to mean "when a buyer and seller reach an agreement to purchase a firearm." Id. Non-residents of Illinois who purchase long guns at gun shows are not subject to these waiting periods. Id.

Ive still had conflict with this. I bought a firearm last spring at Cabelas in Highland Indiana Had the paid credit card receipt in my possession and had it transferred to a FFL in South Holland Illinois Confirmed with FFL 24 hours later they had it and went in 3 days later to pick it up only to discover "Somebody from the ISP told them that the (clock) waiting time only begins when the 4473 is filled out despite that statement on the ISP's own website". Even when I had a copy of the ISP's policy in my hands to show them. Due to scheduling I eventually got the firearm 10 days later. Whats going to stop the ISP from changing an "Interpretation" any time they want to?

[Matt B]

Capital fax just posted a story on this. Aside from questions on the federal side, it appears the state is forbidden by the legislation from creating/sharing a database of marijuana purchasers. So theoretically the ISP won’t have ready access to purchaser records. Still... buyer beware.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SiliconSorcerer]

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

 

Just because you have a medical card does not mean you've actually purchased or used any.

Answering no maybe completely truthful, the state's "guilt by assumption" would not pass in any judges courtroom.

The state has once again chosen which federal laws to enforce and which not to and in this case, I'd bet my money on unconstitutionally.

Just because a women has a "naughty bits' doesn't mean she's a prostitute....

[defaultdotxbe]

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

 

Just because you have a medical card does not mean you've actually purchased or used any.

Answering no maybe completely truthful, the state's "guilt by assumption" would not pass in any judges courtroom.

The state has once again chosen which federal laws to enforce and which not to and in this case, I'd bet my money on unconstitutionally.

Just because a women has a "naughty bits' doesn't mean she's a prostitute....

ATF disagrees: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-sept2011-open-letter-marijuana-medicinal-purposes/download

[InterestedBystander]

Capital fax just posted a story on this. Aside from questions on the federal side, it appears the state is forbidden by the legislation from creating/sharing a database of marijuana purchasers. So theoretically the ISP wont have ready access to purchaser records. Still... buyer beware.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JCAR lets them make rule changes without changing the law so yea, Id be a bit skeptical.

 

Is there not also a law forbidding creation of a gun purchase database? Yet they look up FTIPs by FOID, Match those to an FTIP inquiry by FFL and get the 4473s with data.

 

Checking IDs of MJ purchasers with the state surely leaves some record at that level.

[Odinson]

Capital fax just posted a story on this. Aside from questions on the federal side, it appears the state is forbidden by the legislation from creating/sharing a database of marijuana purchasers. So theoretically the ISP won’t have ready access to purchaser records. Still... buyer beware. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Buyer beware indeed. I just called a dispensary with a fewquestions. I spoke to a young man for 30 seconds or so until he hung up or we got disconnected. I could barely hear him, it sounded like he was on the floor of the old mercantile exchange. He did say that they are keeping a record of your ID at the door for State records. So he may have been 'tired' or maybe the commerce department of IL will double pinky swear not to share records with the ISP, your guess is good too.

 

I did not get to ask him whether they again check your ID at the point of sale and tie the sale to your ID (I'm pretty sure they do). I also did not get to ask whether out of State medical cards are accepted here (I doubt they are based on the CCL anto-reciprocity stance).

 

Who knows how this will turn out. I do know people that are in pain that are helped by the weed - seems to me a bit better than getting constipated on opiates. Again, up to you (until its not).

[tbrooks]

I can see all of that collected purchaser information kicked over to the feds and labeling people prohibited. The state still gets their sweet tax dollars and it knocks out a chunk of the citizenry from possessing/using firearms. It's a win-win for the big govt goons in Springfield and they get to claim they aren't the bad guys because it was the feds that labeled people prohibited and not Illinois.

Did you read the ISRA post?

[tbrooks]

I went to a gun show in Crown Point last weekend and there was a CBD stand in there.

[defaultdotxbe]

I went to a gun show in Crown Point last weekend and there was a CBD stand in there.

CBD is different, its been deregulated federally and is available in all 50 states. They sell it at most gas stations now too

[THE KING]

Here's a thought that nobody has touched on.

 

Your Gov't ID is scanned when you make a purchase. The question is, who supplies the scanners and is your information automatically transmitted to the state?

 

I wonder how these scanners work. Let me share with you why.

 

2 years ago I was pulled over in South Dakota by a state trooper. He used a hand held scanner and scanned the barcode on the back of my license. All of my information came up on his in car computer. I was sitting in the front seat of his squad when this took place and I saw the screen with my own two eyes.

 

Again, who supplies the scanners and does anyone know where the information goes? The state may have this information immediately and the stores or anyone else may not even know.

 

Just think on that for a while.

[Talonap]

 

e. Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance?

Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

 

Given the conflicting information, what is the correct answer to question e. on the 4473.

 

...

The language of the question does not prohibit POSSESSION, only USE.

 

If I were to purchase MM for a family member, and not for personal USE, then I could answer question e. on the 4473 NO truthfully.

 

The Feds SHOULD have to prove USE separately from purchase in order to lawfully deny the purchase of a firearm.

 

IANAL

 

Looks like it says, "...use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful ...".

[defaultdotxbe]

Here's a thought that nobody has touched on.

 

Your Gov't ID is scanned when you make a purchase. The question is, who supplies the scanners and is your information automatically transmitted to the state?

 

I wonder how these scanners work. Let me share with you why.

 

2 years ago I was pulled over in South Dakota by a state trooper. He used a hand held scanner and scanned the barcode on the back of my license. All of my information came up on his in car computer. I was sitting in the front seat of his squad when this took place and I saw the screen with my own two eyes.

 

Again, who supplies the scanners and does anyone know where the information goes? The state may have this information immediately and the stores or anyone else may not even know.

 

Just think on that for a while.

The information doesn't go anywhere or come from anywhere, its all encoded in a text format in that barcode. Any 2D barcode reader can read it and display it on a screen, its just the same info that's on the front of your license printed ina different format

[Mr. Fife]

Is CBD oil better than Froglube for lubrication, or about the same?

[tkroenlein]

Is CBD oil better than Froglube for lubrication, or about the same?

Just about the same.

[Flynn]

 

Here's a thought that nobody has touched on.

 

Your Gov't ID is scanned when you make a purchase. The question is, who supplies the scanners and is your information automatically transmitted to the state?

 

I wonder how these scanners work. Let me share with you why.

 

2 years ago I was pulled over in South Dakota by a state trooper. He used a hand held scanner and scanned the barcode on the back of my license. All of my information came up on his in car computer. I was sitting in the front seat of his squad when this took place and I saw the screen with my own two eyes.

 

Again, who supplies the scanners and does anyone know where the information goes? The state may have this information immediately and the stores or anyone else may not even know.

 

Just think on that for a while.

The information doesn't go anywhere or come from anywhere, its all encoded in a text format in that barcode. Any 2D barcode reader can read it and display it on a screen, its just the same info that's on the front of your license printed ina different format

 

 

That really depends on the software/hardware used. I just downloaded a few DL scanner apps on my phone and read the disclaimers a few of them had disclaimers that said the data was collected and retained by them for marketing purposes. So unless you know exactly what hardware/software is being used you have no idea where that data might end up. Why the state is mandating the IDs be scanned is beyond me, almost all modern fakes are scanable as almost all popular night clubs have been scanning IDs for years and in those cases I know for a fact many of the nightclubs retain the info (I personally saw a nightclub allow police to browse the scanned ID database after a fight broke out and the police wanted to identify those involved) with their software some even snap a photo of the ID for liability reasons, so read the front or scan it makes little difference, but one more easily opens up the possibility of data compromises.

[InterestedBystander]

Why the state is mandating the IDs be scanned is beyond me

What I have read indicated scanned data is sent to the state to verify age and valid ID card...but the data is supposedly not kept.

[tkroenlein]

Are we still debating how much we trust the state?

[Nanook]

Is CBD oil better than Froglube for lubrication, or about the same?

 

After it dries, your gun gets the munchies.

[Mr. Fife]

Is CBD oil better than Froglube for lubrication, or about the same?

 

Just about the same.

Ok because they are both plant based but Froglube doesn't get me high. Makes me smell minty too.

[Mr. Fife]

 

After it dries, your gun gets the munchies.

Wait, gun?

[THE KING]

Are we still debating how much we trust the state?

Nope not me.

[Lou]

Are we still debating how much we trust the state?

 

Not me. I know better.

[Flynn]

Are we still debating how much we trust the state?

 

[InterestedBystander]

 

Is CBD oil better than Froglube for lubrication, or about the same?

 

Just about the same.

Ok because they are both plant based but Froglube doesn't get me high. Makes me smell minty too.

CBD oil will not get you high either, but you can selelct different flavors

[defaultdotxbe]

 

 

Here's a thought that nobody has touched on.

Your Gov't ID is scanned when you make a purchase. The question is, who supplies the scanners and is your information automatically transmitted to the state?

I wonder how these scanners work. Let me share with you why.

2 years ago I was pulled over in South Dakota by a state trooper. He used a hand held scanner and scanned the barcode on the back of my license. All of my information came up on his in car computer. I was sitting in the front seat of his squad when this took place and I saw the screen with my own two eyes.

Again, who supplies the scanners and does anyone know where the information goes? The state may have this information immediately and the stores or anyone else may not even know.

Just think on that for a while.

 

The information doesn't go anywhere or come from anywhere, its all encoded in a text format in that barcode. Any 2D barcode reader can read it and display it on a screen, its just the same info that's on the front of your license printed ina different format

That really depends on the software/hardware used. I just downloaded a few DL scanner apps on my phone and read the disclaimers a few of them had disclaimers that said the data was collected and retained by them for marketing purposes. So unless you know exactly what hardware/software is being used you have no idea where that data might end up. Why the state is mandating the IDs be scanned is beyond me, almost all modern fakes are scanable as almost all popular night clubs have been scanning IDs for years and in those cases I know for a fact many of the nightclubs retain the info (I personally saw a nightclub allow police to browse the scanned ID database after a fight broke out and the police wanted to identify those involved) with their software some even snap a photo of the ID for liability reasons, so read the front or scan it makes little difference, but one more easily opens up the possibility of data compromises.

Even before licenses had machine-readable formats on the back places would still scan the data off the front for the same purposes. Same thing with grocery store savings clubs. Heck they don't even need you to sign up for anything, most stores will track your purchases just based on the credit card you use

 

My high school used to scan visitors' IDs, OCR and store all the data, photo included, and print a temporary visitor badge with the photo, and this was 20 years ago.

 

I