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[steveTA84]

 

Theyre not our allies. They work with the antis to preserve their sport, not protect the 2nd as intended. They wouldnt shed a tear if semi-auto rifles were banned (in fact, many I know have stated that we wouldve better without them because theyre too dangerous to own. Not making that up).They will only act as allies for sporting purposes (like the lead shot bill), but will do jack for things like SB107

The term I used was potential allies.Criticizing people who may not understand the issue is a lazy approach to this. It maintians the status quo rather than advancing the cause.

Many (not all) just don’t care as long as they can keep (for now) their over-under and their deer rifle. They will never jump on board the “we are all in the together” bandwagon. Changing the status quo involves calling out an opponent for what they are and not playing their game. Think about it: Pritzker and friends up on stage with a bunch of “Fudds” saying “hey look everyone, we aren’t against guns or gun owners, we just want common sense gun safety. Shoot clays and hunt deer all you want!”

[mauserme]

Many (not all) just dont care as long as they can keep (for now) their over-under and their deer rifle. They will never jump on board the we are all in the together bandwagon. Changing the status quo involves calling out an opponent for what they are and not playing their game. Think about it: Pritzker and friends up on stage with a bunch of Fudds saying hey look everyone, we arent against guns or gun owners, we just want common sense gun safety. Shoot clays and hunt deer all you want!

You're seeing this in a binary sense. Us vs them. Pro vs anti.

 

Look for the shades of grey - the population of gun owners who can be brought into our fold with the right approach.

[steveTA84]

 

Many (not all) just dont care as long as they can keep (for now) their over-under and their deer rifle. They will never jump on board the we are all in the together bandwagon. Changing the status quo involves calling out an opponent for what they are and not playing their game. Think about it: Pritzker and friends up on stage with a bunch of Fudds saying hey look everyone, we arent against guns or gun owners, we just want common sense gun safety. Shoot clays and hunt deer all you want!

You're seeing this in a binary sense. Us vs them. Pro vs anti.Look for the shades of grey - the population of gun owners who can be brought into our fold with the right approach.

Totally agree, but there are a good portion who would gladly join Giffords group or one like it (listed on other page) and work against us for their own self interest. Thats the key in all of this: people and places like Sparta World tossing out the big picture to carve a portion out to make them exempt. That does nothing to advance our fight and in the end, ends up hurting it (allows antis to say they are not anti-gun becuasr they allowed a place like that to be exempt)

 

 

To the average person who doesnt know much about guns or the 2A, does it not come across that maybe the antis arent anti, and we are the nuts?

 

Optics.....

[domin8]

From where I stand all of you are in the shades of grey, whereas I'm so far at the end that I would be considered "binary". You guys have known my situation for 7 years, and made 0 effort to fix the problems. Now more people are seeing what I've been seeing. Piss off enough people and you start to become irrelevant.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

 

[steveTA84]

 

 

Many (not all) just dont care as long as they can keep (for now) their over-under and their deer rifle. They will never jump on board the we are all in the together bandwagon. Changing the status quo involves calling out an opponent for what they are and not playing their game. Think about it: Pritzker and friends up on stage with a bunch of Fudds saying hey look everyone, we arent against guns or gun owners, we just want common sense gun safety. Shoot clays and hunt deer all you want!

You're seeing this in a binary sense. Us vs them. Pro vs anti.Look for the shades of grey - the population of gun owners who can be brought into our fold with the right approach.

Totally agree, but there are a good portion who would gladly join Giffords group or one like it (listed on other page) and work against us for their own self interest. Thats the key in all of this: people and places like Sparta World tossing out the big picture to carve a portion out to make them exempt. That does nothing to advance our fight and in the end, ends up hurting it (allows antis to say they are not anti-gun becuasr they allowed a place like that to be exempt)

To the average person who doesnt know much about guns or the 2A, does it not come across that maybe the antis arent anti, and we are the nuts?

Optics.....

 

Perfect example of what I’m talking about and how the other side is adapting

 

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72381&hl=marion

 

So what would have happened if some of us didn’t intervene and spread some truth?

[mrmagloo]

Carve Out = Divide and Conquer. It dilutes our cause, and does ZERO to bring potential allies to our side. Period.

[Molly B.]

From where I stand all of you are in the shades of grey, whereas I'm so far at the end that I would be considered "binary". You guys have known my situation for 7 years, and made 0 effort to fix the problems. Now more people are seeing what I've been seeing. Piss off enough people and you start to become irrelevant. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

 

We have tried many times to 'fix' your problem. You just won't accept the fact that Madigan will not allow a bill to move that will fix your problem. Our hands are tied until the courts fix this or there is a new speaker elected in the House.

[steveTA84]

 

From where I stand all of you are in the shades of grey, whereas I'm so far at the end that I would be considered "binary". You guys have known my situation for 7 years, and made 0 effort to fix the problems. Now more people are seeing what I've been seeing. Piss off enough people and you start to become irrelevant. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

 

We have tried many times to 'fix' your problem. You just won't accept the fact that Madigan will not allow a bill to move that will fix your problem. Our hands are tied until the courts fix this or there is a new speaker elected in the House.

I agree. Theres only so much that can be done with the Führer at the helm (hopefully the feds take care of that). We were lucky in some cases to get some stuff done. One reason Im so against these carveouts, because obviously there are backroom deals being made and who knows what those are. Nothing is ever accomplished without cutting a deal with the devil in Illinois

 

Domin8, hopefully one day (if this cesspool of a State ever cleans up) it can get accomplished. Never thought Id be able to carry, so anything is possible

[soundguy]

 

Many (not all) just dont care as long as they can keep (for now) their over-under and their deer rifle. They will never jump on board the we are all in the together bandwagon. Changing the status quo involves calling out an opponent for what they are and not playing their game. Think about it: Pritzker and friends up on stage with a bunch of Fudds saying hey look everyone, we arent against guns or gun owners, we just want common sense gun safety. Shoot clays and hunt deer all you want!

You're seeing this in a binary sense. Us vs them. Pro vs anti.

Look for the shades of grey - the population of gun owners who can be brought into our fold with the right approach.

 

Hmmmm... are you suggesting we should be non-binary?

[steveTA84]

^^^^

 

I identify as a velociraptor, so since Im extinct no laws apply to me. But since Im dead, I can still vote in IL

[mauserme]

Hmmmm... are you suggesting we should be non-binary?

Ummmm

 

Pass.

[domin8]

 

From where I stand all of you are in the shades of grey, whereas I'm so far at the end that I would be considered "binary". You guys have known my situation for 7 years, and made 0 effort to fix the problems. Now more people are seeing what I've been seeing. Piss off enough people and you start to become irrelevant. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

We have tried many times to 'fix' your problem. You just won't accept the fact that Madigan will not allow a bill to move that will fix your problem. Our hands are tied until the courts fix this or there is a new speaker elected in the House.

You think there's only 1 problem? This isn't just a FCCL problem. It just took somebody else not affiliated with IC to convince a court FOID is unconstitutional. I still can't go to Walmart and buy ammo. I can't go to a gun range and rent a gun. At what point was a lawsuit going to be initiated? Gee, I wonder why I stopped financially supporting IC and ISRA.

 

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[Mr. Fife]

The purple is deep on that one.

[Molly B.]

 

From where I stand all of you are in the shades of grey, whereas I'm so far at the end that I would be considered "binary". You guys have known my situation for 7 years, and made 0 effort to fix the problems. Now more people are seeing what I've been seeing. Piss off enough people and you start to become irrelevant. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

 

 

We have tried many times to 'fix' your problem. You just won't accept the fact that Madigan will not allow a bill to move that will fix your problem. Our hands are tied until the courts fix this or there is a new speaker elected in the House.

You think there's only 1 problem? This isn't just a FCCL problem. It just took somebody else not affiliated with IC to convince a court FOID is unconstitutional. I still can't go to Walmart and buy ammo. I can't go to a gun range and rent a gun. At what point was a lawsuit going to be initiated? Gee, I wonder why I stopped financially supporting IC and ISRA.

 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

I was addressing this as a FOID PROBLEM. Your lack of understanding of the issues and situation does not changes any of that.

[domin8]

My lack of understanding? It appears I'm more of an inconvenient reminder to you. You said you tried to fix the matter legislatively. My understanding is that you never wanted to bring a lawsuit forth. There's a lot I could say, but I'm holding back so the antis don't get their jollies off the reality of how divided the group really is.

 

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[Molly B.]

My lack of understanding? It appears I'm more of an inconvenient reminder to you. You said you tried to fix the matter legislatively. My understanding is that you never wanted to bring a lawsuit forth. There's a lot I could say, but I'm holding back so the antis don't get their jollies off the reality of how divided the group really is.

 

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Not an inconvenient reminder at all, but a reminder all the well of you and your take on things. Not much has changed even though much has tried to be explained to you.

[steveTA84]

Back on subject

 

http://senategop.state.il.us/News/7995/Exemption-for-Sparta-World-Shooting-Complex-signed-into-law/news-detail/

 

Without the exemptions, the Gun Dealer Licensing Act would have increased costs and administrative burdens for many of the vendors that typically set up during events at the World Shooting Complex in Sparta. These new regulations could have led to national shooting events choosing a different venue. Senator Schimpf voted against the Gun Dealer Licensing Act.

 

In addition, the legislation also updates concealed carry regulations and allows current and retired police officers to carry while hunting.

 

I would like to thank Governor Pritzker for recognizing the importance of the WSRC to the area and signing this legislation into law, said Schimpf.

Translation: Im upset that you Beat me within an inch of my life, but sincerely appreciate the bandaid you put on my nose and the promise that youll only beat up my friends from now on.

 

A bone was thrown, and its one that will do no good in the long run. Big deal, one facility gets a pass. Praise for JB does nothing but look like hes not that bad when we all SHOULD know thats far from reality.

[mauserme]

From where I stand all of you are in the shades of grey, whereas I'm so far at the end that I would be considered "binary". You guys have known my situation for 7 years, and made 0 effort to fix the problems. Now more people are seeing what I've been seeing. Piss off enough people and you start to become irrelevant. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

It isn't true that there has been no effort, but help me understand your 7 year situation better.

 

As I understand it you lived in Illinois from 7/2012 to 7/2015. It was during those 3 years that there would have been any hope of making you eligible for a FOID card. What 7 years are you referring too? I understand that 2019 - 2012 = 7, but to call it your 7 year situation implies something it isn't.

[BigJim]

I live a few miles north of Elgin. What does Sparta do for me? I would rather Sparta close and the local mom & pop FFL's in my corner of the state stay open.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

 

[steveTA84]

I live a few miles north of Elgin. What does Sparta do for me? I would rather Sparta close and the local mom & pop FFL's in my corner of the state stay open.

 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Exactly. The whole thing is a slap in the face. Deals were made and the only ones who win are Sparta World and whoever cut the deals (and J.B. wins, cuz now he looks moderate to the misinformed)

[blom]

I had to surrender my FFL after 26 plus years of business, primarily helping out locals here in Stephenson Co. 3 miles from the Wisconsin border with very little monetary reward. Really glad Sparta got a carve out. PURPLE. Oh and how about veterans get to CC while hunting as long as we're making special classes of rights

[steveTA84]

I had to surrender my FFL after 26 plus years of business, primarily helping out locals here in Stephenson Co. 3 miles from the Wisconsin border with very little monetary reward. Really glad Sparta got a carve out. PURPLE

Having met you and done business with you, this is a shame. Youre the type of person who gets screwed (an honest guy just trying to make a legitimate living).

 

(Purple)

But lets celebrate the Wonderful achievement in passing the the bill for one location so clay shooters/vendors can have a good time and not abide by the rules that you have (well, had) to. Youre a liability to the great state of IL after all (purple)

[mrmagloo]

I had to surrender my FFL after 26 plus years of business, primarily helping out locals here in Stephenson Co. 3 miles from the Wisconsin border with very little monetary reward. Really glad Sparta got a carve out. PURPLE

 

I feel for you brother. You are EXACTLY the rank and file 2A supporters that get burned when we allow our so called 2A advocates break ranks, and allow the enemy to manipulate and divide us. There should never be exceptions or carve outs allowed to make one person - Typically the smaller guy, be harmed while another gets a pass. This is totally unacceptable.

 

Imho, all of these FFL's that got burned here needs a real advocate who can now add malicious discrimination to the lawsuit.

[steveTA84]

Thanks Sparta World (and anyone who worked on this mess). You and your trap guns sold by the vendors are exempt and better than the rest of us.

 

[mauserme]

 

 

 

Steve, did you miss the part about not driving potential allies away?

[steveTA84]

Is an ally someone who attempts to better the fight as a whole or looks out for their own self interest like the case here (and in turn makes the sitting governor look like hes reasonable due to the praise given)?

 

Perhaps the right thing to do would for vendors to grow a spine and not sell any firearms during the event

[mauserme]

Is an ally someone who attempts to better the fight as a whole or looks out for their own self interest like the case here?

A potential ally, as I keep referring to them, are those who need information, need a welcoming place in which to channel their energies, need direction.

 

A true ally is unlikely to purposely cause division among the groups, among members, and potential members. A true ally doesn't poison the waters of possible success with rumor and divisive language.

[steveTA84]

Well then I guess Im not a true ally (if thats what youre getting at). Forget everything Ive done and my group has accomplished. Forget all of the putting our butts on the line to get and spread information to the masses. Were poison.

 

 

 

This is NOT against the entire ISRA. They are awesome. This is AGAINST backroom deals

[Molly B.]

Gun groups won't always agree but we have a policy of not denigrating them in our forums.

 

 

Disagree with their stand on a bill but this is going beyond that. If they lose members or support over their position, let that be on their heads not because of our doing.

[mauserme]

Well then I guess I’m not a true ally (if that’s what you’re getting at). Forget everything I’ve done and my group has accomplished. Forget all of the putting our butts on the line to get and spread information to the masses. We’re poison.

You're causing a great deal more harm than good.