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White Mich. couple charged after gun pulled on Black family


mikew

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I find this one disturbing on a couple of levels.

I only watched the video once, maybe I should watch it again.

 

Watch, discuss.

 

White Mich. couple charged after gun pulled on Black family

 

https://apnews.com/56ad34a86dec4c7e670b9577d916a0d5

 

After the video surfaced, Eric Wuestenberg was fired from his job at Oakland University near Detroit, a spokesman said. He worked as a veterans support services coordinator, according to a university website.

“We have seen the video and we deem his behavior unacceptable,” the university said in an emailed statement.

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Looks like the white woman bumped into the black womans fifteen year old who was taking the video. May have been intentional or not. Not clear. My opinion avoid any confrontation unless attacked bodily. The woman should not have pulled the gun even if they kicked their car. Call the cops and report it. These are turbulent times and people are sometimes looking for a reason to start a fight. Because of the social media BS you can potentially lose your job like that poor guy did.
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The white couple wasn't racist. The black mom and daughter tried many times to provoke them to get a video. The white couple was non-confrontational, until finally they weren't.

 

Nobody's life or safety was in danger. The white woman should have kept her gun holstered. Under IL law, that was misdemeanor assault with a deadly weapon. I don't know about MI law. Having drawn the gun, the couple should not have left the scene.

 

Lots of stupidity to go around. The guy shouldn't have lost his job, so the university got in on the stupidity, too.

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As soon as someone starts yelling at you and calling you names,and THEY start recording,it's time to just smile and leave.That's what aggravates them the most.

If you can leave. That was when the gun was pulled. They were stopped from leaving by the woman jumping in back of the car and that's when thing escalated.

 

No she shouldn't have pulled that gun. It was one woman and her kids. If it was a group of people, or even more than one adult, then the threat would have be more likely to warrant unholstering of the gun.

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From Michigan Use of Force Laws:

 

(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.

source

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Hi,

 

Having achieved temporary safe sanctuary in a vehicle, button up your car and dial 911. If you can, start filming/recording what is going on until LE arrives.

 

The law may allow more -- if, for instance the other party starts breaking in. But common sense argues for the least aggressive, safe and available response.

 

FWIW.

 

Rich Phillips

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The video shows the results of the multi-lateral racial paranoia exacerbated by the professional and social media.

I did not watch the whole thing, and turned off the volume for most of it. I see no benefit in hearing people exchange insults.

 

Both parties were guilty of escalating the incident.

Be an adult. If someone you will never see again insults you, move on. You can spend the rest of the day talking about what #$%#@ idiots they were.

The woman blocking the car was a nuisance, not an obvious immediate threat. If she does not move after a few minutes, call the police.

If she had produced a weapon, or was joined by a violent mob, then the gun may have been appropriate.

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From Michigan Use of Force Laws:

 

(2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual.

source

The doctrine of the reasonable/prudent individual would apply. The final determination would be done in a court of law.

 

https://definitions.uslegal.com/r/reasonable-prudent-man/#:~:text=Reasonable%20or%20Prudent%20man%20is%20a%20hypothetical%20person,protection%20of%20their%20own%20and%20of%20others%27%20interests.

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While I agree the gun should never have come out there is more to this than a white woman pointing a gun at a black woman. I took the time to watch and listen to the long version of the "available" video.

 

The encounter was triggered by a 15 year old girl that claimed she moved aside as the white lady was exiting the store and the white lady bumped into her without apologizing. The teen confronted the white lady for her lack of manners. The white lady made some sort of comment in return and mom was conveniently on the scene with camera running. The mom followed the white lady to her vehicle screaming foul language the whole way, the white lady kept saying that she was not a racist. The husband intervened and put the white lady in the van. At this point the mom starts in on the husband and threatens to beat his a** and his wife's a**. The husband gets back into the van. The white lady rolls down her window and tells mom in a calm voice that she is sorry. Mom keeps yelling and the van starts to leave, mom jumped behind the van to keep it from leaving....

 

and the rest is what made the headlines.

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This example has nothing to skin tone but arrogance and hatred. It is wise to limit your damages when under attack especially because you can not trust the law to do the right thing.

That being said this is also an example of giving into terrorists. They can not be placated. With each capitulation the haters get bolder until someone has to make a stand.

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Hi,

 

From today's Sun Times.

 

"A white couple face criminal charges after one of them was captured on video pulling a handgun on a Black woman and her daughters in a restaurant parking lot in Michigan.

 

Jillian Wuestenberg, 32, and Eric Wuestenberg, 42, were arrested after Wednesday night’s confrontation and charged Thursday with felonious assault, Oakland County Prosecutor Jessica Cooper said in a release. They were later arraigned and are free on a $50,000 personal bond, according to the Oakland County sheriff’s office. As a condition of the bond they must turn over all firearms, not engage in “assaultive behavior” and not leave Michigan, Sheriff Michael Bouchard said in a statement."

 

Yeah, the law may eventually sort itself out on their side. Or not.

 

But this is why I commented above about a conservative, more protective response. If you can safely keep yourself and your loved ones whole without resorting to deployment of a firearm, you avoid the stress, expense, and potential sanctioning that these folks will be going through.

 

FWIW.

 

Rich Phillips

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Hi,

 

From today's Sun Times.

 

"A white couple face criminal charges after one of them was captured on video pulling a handgun on a Black woman and her daughters in a restaurant parking lot in Michigan.

 

Jillian Wuestenberg, 32, and Eric Wuestenberg, 42, were arrested after Wednesday night’s confrontation and charged Thursday with felonious assault, Oakland County Prosecutor Jessica Cooper said in a release. They were later arraigned and are free on a $50,000 personal bond, according to the Oakland County sheriff’s office. As a condition of the bond they must turn over all firearms, not engage in “assaultive behavior” and not leave Michigan, Sheriff Michael Bouchard said in a statement."

 

Yeah, the law may eventually sort itself out on their side. Or not.

 

But this is why I commented above about a conservative, more protective response. If you can safely keep yourself and your loved ones whole without resorting to deployment of a firearm, you avoid the stress, expense, and potential sanctioning that these folks will be going through.

 

FWIW.

 

Rich Phillips

Yep,

 

In my cc lecture about Use of Force, Reasonable Man, ect. I STRESS the grey area especially in Defense of Property. If it is a clear cut case of protecting your's or another's life, chances are you will walk free. In a grey area even if you are found innocent you will probably lose the cost of your home defending yourself.

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Someone could jump on the back of my car and I might not even notice it and just drive away. If the person fell off the back and my car rolled over them, I might not even have noticed that, and have just wanted to leave the area to avoid further confrontation. But in any event, if the law says you cannot draw a gun when threatened, but must wait until you are actually being beaten to death, then something is wrong with the law and maybe it would be worthwhile putting your future in the hands of a jury. None of us want to be the next Reginald Denny of Rodney King fame.

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Unlike Illinois, Michigan has tested the "brandishing" of a firearm and found it to be legal. The argument is that the mere showing of a firearm is sufficient to deter, defuse a confrontation. I don't know much about this situation other than what I have read. What I have read indicates to me that the party that had the gun pointed at them may have been pushing for a "confrontation". That's why when I go out among them, I am the most polite SO and B that I can be. I have never had to draw on anyone yet, and hopefully never will.

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If you want to watch a video chocked full of morons, proceed to the video. Get in the car and just drive away. It could have been that simple. So the mom was blocking the car from pulling out? Slowly back up and watch her feet will move. The mom and kid were instigating the heck out of the gun lady and it worked and they got the exact response they were hoping for. Whitey gets arrested.

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If you want to watch a video chocked full of morons, proceed to the video. Get in the car and just drive away. It could have been that simple. So the mom was blocking the car from pulling out? Slowly back up and watch her feet will move. The mom and kid were instigating the heck out of the gun lady and it worked and they got the exact response they were hoping for. Whitey gets arrested.

Congratulations, you now get arrested for assault and the national news media brands you a racist. You get fired from your job and will never get another one. If you're self-employed your customers will desert you. That's the reality we live in today.

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If you want to watch a video chocked full of morons, proceed to the video. Get in the car and just drive away. It could have been that simple. So the mom was blocking the car from pulling out? Slowly back up and watch her feet will move. The mom and kid were instigating the heck out of the gun lady and it worked and they got the exact response they were hoping for. Whitey gets arrested.

 

And when the mom and kid that were instigating don’t move you get arrested for vehicular assault...... they are instigating- they aren’t gonna move until you hit them.....

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Hi Tip,

 

When they don't move, you call 911 and get the cops come to sort it out. Tell the 911 operator you are being forcibly detained and in fear of bodily harm. And every other moment, record events if you can, to establish your role as an innocent participant.

 

Frankly, it looks to me like the other party here was looking for a chance to force an incident. When there is no imminent and clear danger to you, why play into their hands at the cost of your own future welfare?

 

FWIW.

 

Rich Phillips

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Hi Tip,

When they don't move, you call 911 and get the cops come to sort it out. Tell the 911 operator you are being forcibly detained and in fear of bodily harm. And every other moment, record events if you can, to establish your role as an innocent participant.

Frankly, it looks to me like the other party here was looking for a chance to force an incident. When there is no imminent and clear danger to you, why play into their hands at the cost of your own future welfare?

FWIW.

Rich Phillips

 

Rich,

I agree completely.

I was responding to the “Slowly back up and watch her feet will move.” Poster chastises lady for her actions then basically advocates running mom over....

 

Once it became clear they were intent on instigating an incident the only course of action is to clam up, hole up, and reach out to authorities for assistance. Anything else is going to blow up —- as it did.

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