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Do you just not go to posted locations, or do you speak up?


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#1 vito

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 08:50 AM

I wonder how many here refuse to go to posted locations (which certainly is the preferred action as compared to giving them your business despite their infringing on your rights) but never take the moment to tell the proprietor the reason that you are not giving them your business? I recently was ready to go into a retail location and saw that it was posted. I entered the store and asked for the manager or owner, and when he was present told him that I was planning on shopping there but now would not because of his posting. While we ended up having a bit of a discussion about how those he feared would ignore his sign and that law abiding and licensed gun owners were no threat to him, his staff or his customers, I was surprised when he said I was the very first person to ever make this complaint. He said he posted the sign shortly after concealed carry became legal, and that he believed his customers preferred "knowing" that no one in the store was carrying a gun, and that he could live without my business. 

 

To a great degree we lose the power we have when we fail to express our displeasure at the posting of a business. Our numbers are small enough that without our bringing the issue directly to the attention of the business owner or manager, they might never become aware of the business that they are losing. There was a recent post on this forum about someone not shopping at a car dealership because they saw it was posted, but no mention was made of their complaining to management and expressing how they lost the sale of a car because of their anti-gun position.


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#2 Retiredguns

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 09:09 AM

I like to hit antique shops and was really bummed when my 2 favorites posted. Since they are local businesses, I decided to talk to the owners. Both of them agreed the sign was of no use and took them down.  My Wife shops at Joann Fabrics and I asked why a fabric store was posted, All I got was "corporate policy". Big chains are likely unmovable. I sit in the car as I don't care to look at buttons, zippers and fleece anyway. :no:


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#3 Kingcreek

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 09:10 AM

I still use my Edward jones broker even though company policy sent signs out to each brokers office. I have voiced my displeasure to the broker but it wasn't his choice.
Now I drop off a check every month to be deposited in my account. It's 1/2 block from my office. I usually walk and knock on the glass until the receptionist comes to the door. I hand her my check and wait outside for her to come back with my receipt. They know why and it inconveniences them more than me.
Sometimes it just isn't practical to exclude every poster zone but I have some and have at least complained to others.

#4 Woodrift

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 09:14 AM

I've only spoken up once for a play place to bring my 2 year old. My email got no response.

My wife and I stopped going to The Cheesecake Factory to celebrate our anniversary due to it being posted. As Retiredguns mentioned, a big chain probably won't budge, but I do plan on sending an email to see what response I get.

#5 Coiled

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 09:23 AM

I've emailed places of businesses leave semi bad review on Google what not. There's one place I go to that's posted I carry in said place I have a noterized letter from owner stating I'm allowed to carry on premises.

#6 Woodrift

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 09:28 AM

I've emailed places of businesses leave semi bad review on Google what not. There's one place I go to that's posted I carry in said place I have a noterized letter from owner stating I'm allowed to carry on premises.


I like the idea of leaving negative reviews. That usually gets their attention quickly.

#7 BigJim

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 09:53 AM

 

I've emailed places of businesses leave semi bad review on Google what not. There's one place I go to that's posted I carry in said place I have a noterized letter from owner stating I'm allowed to carry on premises.


I like the idea of leaving negative reviews. That usually gets their attention quickly.

 

Some ratings services such as yelp and google will remove your review if it's negative and the reason is the place is a GFZ.


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#8 TRJ

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:01 AM

I argued with my Acura dealer when they posted because I couldn't get warranty service there without jumping through hoops to abide the law. They didn't give a hoot.
I just bought two new cars. I promptly sent the old dealer invoices for both and reminded them of their earlier brush off. I didn't hear back yet and probably won't, but it made me feel pretty good anyway.

Edited by TRJ, 13 April 2018 - 10:01 AM.


#9 InterestedBystander

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:12 AM

I argued with my Acura dealer when they posted because I couldn't get warranty service there without jumping through hoops to abide the law. They didn't give a hoot.
I just bought two new cars. I promptly sent the old dealer invoices for both and reminded them of their earlier brush off. I didn't hear back yet and probably won't, but it made me feel pretty good anyway.

Haven't been there in a while and sold the Acura but if it is Elmhurst I think they unposted a while ago unless they have since reposted which is possible depending on current management.

At one point all entrances were posted and another time only certain ones were. I talked about it to one of the service writers and he agreed it made no sense and he thought they were put up by someone no longer there. Next time I returned the signs were gone. The next time I came back after that so was that service writer.

The other brand they sell in the building across the lot was still posted last time I looked.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 13 April 2018 - 11:44 AM.

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#10 JDW

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:24 AM

In general,I don't spend my money where I can't carry. No I don't ask why they're posted. I've found that there are plenty of other businesses out here that aren't posted, and that's where I spend my dollars. I also never carry where I'm not supposed to, so I pay very close attention to signage. 


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#11 Hatchet

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:35 AM

I was in a car lot looking at new and used trucks. Sales guy came up we talked, i wanted to get pricing, walked to the door and i stopped. He asked why. I told him because of that sign. Was told to ignore it and just come in. Told him "Nope, i am not going to break the law for your sale, and thats the only people that sign will keep out, is people who follow the law. I will go to another dealership." Got in the car and left.


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#12 armadroid

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:37 AM

I can't even remember the last posted location I have seen. 



#13 soylentgreen

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 11:13 AM

I've avoided places or looked for alternatives. On a few occassions I have sent email or FB messenger to some mom-and-pop shops. You're not likely to convince big corporate conglomerates. 

Mike's Bike Shop in Palatine is one place I messaged. I purchased an $900 bike there three or four years ago. When I went back for an inner tube, I saw they had posted. I walked back to my car and drove away. I went to Village Cycle Sport. No sign.

 

I messaged Mike's on FB. I can see they read the message. They didn't reply. I was polite. I said I had bought a bike there and that their staff is very helpful and knowledgeable. I also told them that I came there but decided not to shop due to the sign. I got no reply.

I drive by every so often and I check. I kept seeing the sign. HOWEVER!!! I was recently in the area and was driving by and I noticed they have finally removed the sign!!!!
 

Either they heard from enough customers or the owner finally saw the light. I don't know.



#14 Hap

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 11:36 AM

Always mention it to the owner, manager, or even just a regular employee. Sometimes the signs come down right away, sometimes it takes a few days, sometimes it takes a few months. The ones where the sign never comes down? No such thing, they just haven't come down yet. Just keep asking, and never stop.

 

Polite is good. More polite is better. It's a good contrast to the way the other side does things.


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#15 Hipshot Percussion

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:21 PM

I don't usually go to places that have a sign - unless that sign is mandated by law for the 50% alcohol rule, as I don't feel it's their fault.  Beyond that, sometimes there isn't a whole lot of choice, or it will be a once or twice a year thing.  I've only talked to one business and that was at the very beginning - they ended up not posting.  I'm a fairly pragmatic person and I do the best I can, but if I can't?  Ahh well, there is always tomorrow.  If we (the wife and I) are invited out to a restaurant with a group of friends and its posted - and probably not for alcohol, I go in and enjoy myself - I'm not going to make a scene or walk out and ruin everyone's evening.  I realize I can't have everything I want in life.  JMHO


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#16 Euler

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 01:43 PM

I can't even remember the last posted location I have seen.


Mandatory posted places, like libraries and schools, are the only places I see in my regular, daily travels. There are some national chains that are reputed to have anti-gun policies, but their local franchises/offices near me aren't posted. I don't bother to ask them why they're not posted. It's not the sort of thing I want to encourage.

I bought my current car before it was possible to carry, so I don't know if the dealership is posted.

#17 tdiller

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 01:48 PM

Twice I have spoken up . Once at my local Road Ranger gas station. They had it posted on the door. I filled up and was going in to get  a cup of coffee. I noticed the sign and mentioned it to the cashier. I also went online and  emailed corporate. I was moderately surprised that I got a phone call from the regional manager who explained that it was put up in error because someone at the store had taken some Alcohol training course and they handed them out there. The regional manager said it had been removed. I stopped in later that week for gas again and it was gone.

 

Second time I was in a c-store looking for something special ( a kind of adult beverage for a friend)  and noticed that it was posted at the register. This was right about the time that CC became legal and the manager did not know how it was supposed  to be posted. I set my purchase on the counter and walked out. Don't think the guy gave a damn even after I explained why  I was not giving him my business.


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#18 TRJ

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 04:26 PM

 

I argued with my Acura dealer when they posted because I couldn't get warranty service there without jumping through hoops to abide the law. They didn't give a hoot.
I just bought two new cars. I promptly sent the old dealer invoices for both and reminded them of their earlier brush off. I didn't hear back yet and probably won't, but it made me feel pretty good anyway.

Haven't been there in a while and sold the Acura but if it is Elmhurst I think they unposted a while ago unless they have since reposted which is possible depending on current management.

At one point all entrances were posted and another time only certain ones were. I talked about it to one of the service writers and he agreed it made no sense and he thought they were put up by someone no longer there. Next time I returned the signs were gone. The next time I came back after that so was that service writer.

The other brand they sell in the building across the lot was still posted last time I looked.

 

Nope, Hoffman dealer. Napleton was my fallback location for service. Napleton was the only one locally where you could go, every other one in the area posted.

 

This was one of the driving factors in dumping the Acura early. 



#19 Weed

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 04:31 PM

I still use my Edward jones broker even though company policy sent signs out to each brokers office. I have voiced my displeasure to the broker but it wasn't his choice.
Now I drop off a check every month to be deposited in my account. It's 1/2 block from my office. I usually walk and knock on the glass until the receptionist comes to the door. I hand her my check and wait outside for her to come back with my receipt. They know why and it inconveniences them more than me.
Sometimes it just isn't practical to exclude every poster zone but I have some and have at least complained to others.

I had been with Edward Jones over 30 years and dropped them when they posted.

#20 rmart

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:00 PM

Giordano's posted in both Oakbrook Terrace and Glen Ellyn and told me the 'corporate policy' line but I noticed the Giordano's in Indianapolis wasn't posted.

I suspect that often when you hear 'corporate policy' what they're really saying is 'I don't want to deal with your drama'.


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#21 Wild Bill

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:18 PM

I won't go if they're a "fringe" place I shop. If it's a place I like, I'll leave a card (I've got 500 cards made by Vista Print with my complaints on it), call the owner, or email corporate. I've gotten a local liquor store to take down the sign - they apologized for putting it up after the fact.



#22 Rilo

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 06:45 PM

Nope I won’t give them a penny! My life is valued at more than the purchase I need to make. I will mention it, to avoid issues I normally email/yelp them, saves confrontation when I would be clearly carrying or I wouldn’t have mentioned it.

#23 djmarkla

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:07 PM

There is a Taco Burrito King near my place of employment that was posted for a while when I first saw the sign I called and sent emails to the manager. I never received a response. I and a few others I work with stopped going there. A few months went by and the signs came down. There was never a response or mention of a reason the signs were removed. Like it never happened. ?

#24 FarmHand357

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:09 PM

If I think it will do any good, I write a nice and polite letter.  At my banks, this has not worked.  At a local car dealership (Tri-Ford in Highland, Illinois), after several letters back and forth, the no-guns sign came down!


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#25 45b

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:46 AM

   I have also been to a local Farm & Home Store, that appeared posted one day, So I asked the manager what was up with a store that sells handguns and long guns why they posted? He replied what are you talking about, and proceeded to tell me they would never post such a sign.

 

   We walked to the front of the store and there was the sign in the front entry door. He went to the office and came back out a little while later, and told me they had video of a customer leaving the store putting the sign up on the door. He promptly removed the sign and said the next time that customer came to the store, she would be told not to come back.

 

   So check with the management or owner, maybe someone else posted the sign and the don't even know about it.

 

   We have also had a Knights of Columbus Hall that posted the doors because they didn't know the rules and their distributor told them they had to post. They removed the sign when the law was shown and explained to them.

 

   Some of our members got signs removed from a local bike and walk trail by the local Park District when the laws were pointed out to them.

 

   Speak up and let them know, you don't agree with being left defenseless.

 

 


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#26 Skolnick

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:12 AM

Big chains are likely unmovable.

 

You can't fix stupid. Stupid business practices, along with massive doses of insincerity, have given Dilbert continuous material for the past 29 years.

 

When the circle-slash-gun sign went up at the Buffalo Grove Bank & Trust (a WinTrust bank), I closed my personal and business accounts. The reason I gave for closing the accounts was the GFZ sign.

 

A day later, I got a call from some WinTrust official who seemed totally bewildered that a businessman would actually close an account for that reason. I told him that the matter was not up for discussion, that he has the choice of that sign or my business. He assured me that the posting of that sign was nothing personal. I responded that he just confirmed that he values that sign more than my business -- and that if he thinks that little of my business, that is enough for me to switch banks.

 

He disputed the validity of my business decision. I told him that I take crap from my customers, not my vendors.

 

Both of us are doing fine since the divorce.

 

 

Retiredguns is correct, there is a critical mass were it goes from "how do we better serve our valued customers?" to "how do we better fleece the rubes?".



#27 Liberty4IL

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 09:49 AM

Use it as a chance to educate people. This was an exchange that I had in March when signs went up at my local Great Clips probably in response to the recent anti-gun hysteria. I first sent an e-mail through the corporate web site and recieved these responses from the local owner:

I am the owner of the Great Clips at our Carillon Great Clips salon (476 North Weber). Thanks for your feedback about our no gun. I appreciate your feedback and think you make some good points. We are doing some reassessing about these signs. Its going to take us a bit so please be patient as we review this. I plan to get back to you once we come to a decision.

4 weeks later:

I wanted to again thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback regarding the no gun sign. We have reassessed this issue and have now taken down the no gun signs.

Thanks again for your feedback!

#28 djmarkla

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 10:22 AM

Use it as a chance to educate people. This was an exchange that I had in March when signs went up at my local Great Clips probably in response to the recent anti-gun hysteria. I first sent an e-mail through the corporate web site and recieved these responses from the local owner:
I am the owner of the Great Clips at our Carillon Great Clips salon (476 North Weber). Thanks for your feedback about our no gun. I appreciate your feedback and think you make some good points. We are doing some reassessing about these signs. Its going to take us a bit so please be patient as we review this. I plan to get back to you once we come to a decision.
4 weeks later:
I wanted to again thank you for taking the time to provide your feedback regarding the no gun sign. We have reassessed this issue and have now taken down the no gun signs.
Thanks again for your feedback!


What did your email say? Your communication was effective ,I think that is what is important. What did you say to make a conversation VS an argument.

#29 FarmHand357

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 06:32 PM

I think real letters get more attention, especially if you take the time to look up the owner(s) and address accordingly.  I include my address info at the top and my email address after my name at the bottom.

 

I'm not saying that what follows is the best letter in the world, but it's what I used that eventually led to the taking down of a no-guns sign at a local auto dealership.  I used a similar letter at a local bowling alley and it too resulted in the sign coming down.  That being said, these letters have failed at two local banks.  Nonetheless, this is what I used and others have letters on these forums that are at least as good, if not better, and you can delete the first sentence if it doesn't apply:

 

"Dear [owner's names that I look up]:

 

I previously purchased a Ford vehicle as well as maintenance services from Tri Ford.  I was recently informed that you have since posted your business as a “gun-free zone.”  As a past customer and strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment and all of our constitutional rights, I wish to make several points.

 

Lawbreakers, who are carrying illegally, will not obey these signs.  The only thing your signs do is let criminals know that your locations are unsafe and that your patrons are vulnerable.  By electing to post your business, you have chosen to prevent lawful concealed carry license (CCL) holders who have completed 16 hours of training; been fingerprinted and passed federal, state, and local criminal background checks; and qualified to carry a concealed firearm from entering your building.  You automatically know that CCL holders are not felons; have no history of drug/alcohol problems, domestic violence, or mental illness; completed stringent firearms, legal, and safety training requirements; and have the approval of both the FBI and Illinois State Police.

 

We are not and should not be a concern.  Numerous objective studies have conclusively shown that CCL license holders are among the most law-abiding citizens in our society and are the segment of our population that we should fear the least. How much do you know about your other customers?

 

If you were to reply that your insurance requires that you prohibit law-abiding carry, my response would be, “Show me the actuarial data indicating that allowing concealed carry license holders in businesses results in increased claims.”  I don’t believe any such data exist.

 

In addition, Tri Ford is now listed on the Posted! app (a free download for both Android and iPhone/iPad devices) as a business that bans legal concealed carry.  Thousands of law-abiding citizens use this and other social networks to notify others of businesses in which they are left defenseless and at the mercy of potential criminals. I and I’m sure others will certainly avoid or minimize the patronage of your business until you change this policy.  Even if only a small fraction of potential customers feels the same way, why would you turn them away?

 

I appreciate your time as well as your consideration. Please feel free to share this letter and its sincere concerns.  Thank you.

 

Respectfully yours

 

FarmHand 357

XXXX, Illinois"

 


Edited by FarmHand357, 15 April 2018 - 06:42 PM.

Punish the crime, not the freedom

#30 Tango7

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 06:43 PM

Big chains are likely unmovable.


I saw a local Dunkin Donuts had posted. I offered a lengthy commentary when I completed the receipt survey:

Besides the fact that my coffee was much weaker than normal, when I entered the establishment I noticed a sign hung on the inside window prohibiting law abiding citizens from carrying firearms. This disturbed me. As a law enforcement officer and firearms instructor I can say that I have never encountered a criminal using a gun to commit a crime suddenly stop because a "no guns" sign was posted. That sign does not mean "no guns" to everyone, under the law it only applies to those who underwent 16 hours of training, 5 background checks and paid $150 to obtain a license to defend themselves. The criminals will gladly walk right past it, and I cannot in good conscience continue to patronize such a location, not can I suggest it to my co-workers or friends, especially when there are 2 other locations within a 5 minute drive, none of which have engaged in such behavior."

I went by a few weeks later and the sign was down.

I have to wonder how may places post the ISP signage thinking it prohibits all guns, or unlicensed firearms instead of only applying to FCCL holders?

Edited by Tango7, 15 April 2018 - 06:43 PM.

You will not 'rise to the occasion', you will default to your level of training - plan accordingly.

Despite their rallying around us at election time, honoring only 8 hours of Illinois' 40+ hour law enforcement class towards a 16 hour requirement shows the contempt that our elected officials hold us in.




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