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#1 jokerone

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 10:56 AM

I work in an office at an Illinois state university.  Reading the Illinois weapons laws, it appears I cannot keep a culinary knife in my desk draw to cut grapefruit for breakfast.
Clearly there has to be an exception to this law or otherwise every campus kitchen and dining facility would be in violation of this law.  Including anyone in possession of a McDonalds/Jack in the Box salad with plastic knife and fork.
Any opinions?
 
Thanks.



#2 kwc

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 11:02 AM

Which statute are you referencing?
"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." - Galations 6:9 (NIV)

"If you can't explain it to a six-year old, you don't understand it yourself." - Albert Einstein (paraphrased)

#3 jokerone

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:06 PM

Which statute are you referencing?

 

720 ILCS 5/24-1 (2013) Unlawful Use of Weapons

© Violations in specific places.

(1.5) A person who violates subsection 24-1(a)(9)  in any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, in residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, in a public park, in a courthouse, on the real property comprising any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, on residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, on the real property comprising any public park, on the real property comprising any courthouse, in any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a school to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, in any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a public transportation agency, or on any public way within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising any school, public park, courthouse, public transportation facility, or residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development commits a Class 3 felony.

(2) A person who violates subsection 24-1(a)(1), 24-1(a)(2), or 24-1(a)(3) in any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, in residential property owned, operated or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, in a public park, in a courthouse, on the real property comprising any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, on residential property owned, operated or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, on the real property comprising any public park, on the real property comprising any courthouse, in any conveyance owned, leased or contracted by a school to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, in any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a public transportation agency, or on any public way within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising any school, public park, courthouse, public transportation facility, or residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development commits a Class 4 felony. “Courthouse” means any building that is used by the Circuit, Appellate, or Supreme Court of this State for the conduct of official business.

(4) For the purposes of this subsection ©, “school” means any public or private elementary or secondary school, community college, college, or university.

(5) For the purposes of this subsection ©, “public transportation agency” means a public or private agency that provides for the transportation or conveyance of persons by means available to the general public, except for transportation by automobiles not used for conveyance of the general public as passengers; and “public transportation facility” means a terminal or other place where one may obtain public transportation.

(e) Exemptions. Crossbows, Common or Compound bows and Underwater Spearguns are exempted from the definition of ballistic knife as defined in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of this Section.



#4 kwc

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:32 PM

Thank you. I thought that may have been the section you were referencing.

 

The section of the statute you quoted simply applies a penalty enhancement to 720 ILCS/5/24-1 ( a ) ( 2 ), which addresses "dangerous" knives. However, to violate ( a ) ( 2 ), a person must be carrying or possessing "with intent to use the same unlawfully against another...".

 

As I understand it, keeping a culinary knife in your drawer for cutting food wouldn't meet this definition.


Edited by kwc, 20 November 2017 - 12:37 PM.

"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." - Galations 6:9 (NIV)

"If you can't explain it to a six-year old, you don't understand it yourself." - Albert Einstein (paraphrased)

#5 jokerone

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:39 PM

Thank you. I thought that may have been the section you were referencing.

 

The section of the statute you quoted refers to 720 ILCS/5/24-1 ( a ) ( 2 ), which addresses "dangerous" knives. However, to violate ( a ) ( 2 ), a person must be carrying or possessing "with intent to use the same unlawfully against another...".

 

As I understand it, keeping a culinary knife in your drawer for cutting food wouldn't meet this definition.

I would hope not. After re-reading it means anyone driving by on the street, and including employees and patrons at local restaurants within 1000 feet of a school are committing a class 4 felony.

 

thanks.


Edited by jokerone, 20 November 2017 - 12:39 PM.


#6 kwc

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:42 PM

 

Thank you. I thought that may have been the section you were referencing.

 

The section of the statute you quoted refers to 720 ILCS/5/24-1 ( a ) ( 2 ), which addresses "dangerous" knives. However, to violate ( a ) ( 2 ), a person must be carrying or possessing "with intent to use the same unlawfully against another...".

 

As I understand it, keeping a culinary knife in your drawer for cutting food wouldn't meet this definition.

I would hope not. After re-reading it means anyone driving by on the street, and including employees and patrons at local restaurants within 1000 feet of a school are committing a class 4 felony.

 

thanks.

 

 

Only if they are carrying or possessing the knife with the intent to use it unlawfully.


"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." - Galations 6:9 (NIV)

"If you can't explain it to a six-year old, you don't understand it yourself." - Albert Einstein (paraphrased)

#7 jokerone

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 12:45 PM

 

 

Thank you. I thought that may have been the section you were referencing.

 

The section of the statute you quoted refers to 720 ILCS/5/24-1 ( a ) ( 2 ), which addresses "dangerous" knives. However, to violate ( a ) ( 2 ), a person must be carrying or possessing "with intent to use the same unlawfully against another...".

 

As I understand it, keeping a culinary knife in your drawer for cutting food wouldn't meet this definition.

I would hope not. After re-reading it means anyone driving by on the street, and including employees and patrons at local restaurants within 1000 feet of a school are committing a class 4 felony.

 

thanks.

 

 

Only if they are carrying or possessing the knife with the intent to use it unlawfully.

 

thanks.  Nice to know the state of Illinois hasn't totally lost its mind.



#8 stm

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 02:57 PM

I think you may be thinking of 720 ILCS 5/21-6

Sec. 21-6. Unauthorized Possession or Storage of Weapons.     

(a) Whoever possesses or stores any weapon enumerated in Section 33A-1 in any building or on land supported in whole or in part with public funds or in any building on such land without prior written permission from the chief security officer for such land or building commits a Class A misdemeanor.     

(B) The chief security officer must grant any reasonable request for permission under paragraph (a).


Dangerous weapons are Category I, Category II or Category III as listed in 720 ILCS 5/33A-1

© Definitions.         

(1) "Armed with a dangerous weapon". A person is considered armed with a dangerous weapon for purposes of this Article, when he or she carries on or about his or her person or is otherwise armed with a Category I, Category II, or Category III weapon.        

(2) A Category I weapon is a handgun, sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, any other firearm small enough to be concealed upon the person, semiautomatic firearm, or machine gun. A Category II weapon is any other rifle, shotgun, spring gun, other firearm, stun gun or taser as defined in paragraph (a) of Section 24-1 of this Code, knife with a blade of at least 3 inches in length, dagger, dirk, switchblade knife, stiletto, axe, hatchet, or other deadly or dangerous weapon or instrument of like character. As used in this subsection (B) "semiautomatic firearm" means a repeating firearm that utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round and that requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.        

(3) A Category III weapon is a bludgeon, black-jack, slungshot, sand-bag, sand-club, metal knuckles, billy, or other dangerous weapon of like character.


Clear as mud, right?

Edited by stm, 20 November 2017 - 03:00 PM.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#9 jokerone

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:08 PM

 

Clear as mud, right?

 

Yes, I was thinking if I had a paring knife with a blade that was 3" or bigger.



#10 stm

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 03:19 PM


 
Clear as mud, right?
 


Yes, I was thinking if I had a paring knife with a blade that was 3" or bigger.

Technically, it is illegal to possess or store a knife with a blade longer than three inches long on property supported by public funds without prior authorization. It's not a well-known law, but there are convictions on the record, upheld on appeal.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#11 jokerone

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:14 PM

 

 
Clear as mud, right?
 


Yes, I was thinking if I had a paring knife with a blade that was 3" or bigger.

Technically, it is illegal to possess or store a knife with a blade longer than three inches long on property supported by public funds without prior authorization. It's not a well-known law, but there are convictions on the record, upheld on appeal.

 

Which is what I was thinking.  thanks.



#12 lockman

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Posted 20 November 2017 - 05:39 PM

 

 
Clear as mud, right?
 


Yes, I was thinking if I had a paring knife with a blade that was 3" or bigger.

Technically, it is illegal to possess or store a knife with a blade longer than three inches long on property supported by public funds without prior authorization. It's not a well-known law, but there are convictions on the record, upheld on appeal.

 

 

Gee, that includes public housing, private enterprises that received government funding. But yet it cant be enforced in public housing do to 2a implications and probably all the non-secure locations if challenged.


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#13 firepiper

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 02:21 AM

Wonder how the ruling in Winbigler v Warren County regarding 2A would come into play in regards to a knife charge Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#14 lockman

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 06:21 AM

Wonder how the ruling in Winbigler v Warren County regarding 2A would come into play in regards to a knife charge


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That is the case I was alluding to. In a nutshell, you can’t prohibit otherwise lawful firearms just because the housing is subsidized by the government.


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#15 Plinkermostly

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 06:44 AM

How come they can prohibit otherwise lawful firearms just because the county is Crook?



#16 cybermgk

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 08:21 AM

I think you may be thinking of 720 ILCS 5/21-6



Sec. 21-6. Unauthorized Possession or Storage of Weapons.     

(a) Whoever possesses or stores any weapon enumerated in Section 33A-1 in any building or on land supported in whole or in part with public funds or in any building on such land without prior written permission from the chief security officer for such land or building commits a Class A misdemeanor.     

( :cool: The chief security officer must grant any reasonable request for permission under paragraph (a).


Dangerous weapons are Category I, Category II or Category III as listed in 720 ILCS 5/33A-1

© Definitions.         

(1) "Armed with a dangerous weapon". A person is considered armed with a dangerous weapon for purposes of this Article, when he or she carries on or about his or her person or is otherwise armed with a Category I, Category II, or Category III weapon.        

(2) A Category I weapon is a handgun, sawed-off shotgun, sawed-off rifle, any other firearm small enough to be concealed upon the person, semiautomatic firearm, or machine gun. A Category II weapon is any other rifle, shotgun, spring gun, other firearm, stun gun or taser as defined in paragraph (a) of Section 24-1 of this Code, knife with a blade of at least 3 inches in length, dagger, dirk, switchblade knife, stiletto, axe, hatchet, or other deadly or dangerous weapon or instrument of like character. As used in this subsection ( :cool: "semiautomatic firearm" means a repeating firearm that utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round and that requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.        

(3) A Category III weapon is a bludgeon, black-jack, slungshot, sand-bag, sand-club, metal knuckles, billy, or other dangerous weapon of like character.


Clear as mud, right?

 

It's the "or other" i.e. whatever we deem to be a weapon, clauses that are oh so fun.  I actually think these are made vague, so that 'pile on' charges can be added to a criminal act, or for a LEO detainment.


Edited by cybermgk, 21 November 2017 - 08:22 AM.

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#17 stm

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 09:28 AM

Wonder how the ruling in Winbigler v Warren County regarding 2A would come into play in regards to a knife charge


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I think that in Winbigler v. Warren Co. the county conceded the issue and reached an agreement with Winbigler. Both parties asked the judge to enter a judgment that they both agreed to, AND asked the judge to DECLARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL any policy prohibiting tenants of public housing from keeping firearms in their homes.

The judge did enter the judgement that plaintiff and defendant agreed to, but declined to make any constitutional declaration because she felt it wasn't appropriate. Essentially, you can't force a judge to declare something unconstitutional just because both parties agree to it.

While it was a good win for us, I really don't think it sets any legal precedent we can use here.

Edited by stm, 21 November 2017 - 09:29 AM.

yea everyone makes fun of the redneck till the zombies show up. . .


#18 skinnyb82

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 12:12 PM

Wonder how the ruling in Winbigler v Warren County regarding 2A would come into play in regards to a knife charge


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That is the case I was alluding to. In a nutshell, you can’t prohibit otherwise lawful firearms just because the housing is subsidized by the government.


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Reasoning there was that the government housing is still someone's abode. It's discriminatory to say, "if you live here, you cannot have a gun, but if you live over there, go for it." The policy is facially unconstitutional. Now we just need courts to extend the 2A to knives. That's a logical step. Too bad many courts, especially in IL where the judges are almost all Clinton and Obama appointees, don't apply logic.

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#19 jokerone

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 12:59 PM

 

 

Wonder how the ruling in Winbigler v Warren County regarding 2A would come into play in regards to a knife charge


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That is the case I was alluding to. In a nutshell, you can’t prohibit otherwise lawful firearms just because the housing is subsidized by the government.


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Reasoning there was that the government housing is still someone's abode. It's discriminatory to say, "if you live here, you cannot have a gun, but if you live over there, go for it." The policy is facially unconstitutional. Now we just need courts to extend the 2A to knives. That's a logical step. Too bad many courts, especially in IL where the judges are almost all Clinton and Obama appointees, don't apply logic.

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I threw the knife away. It was a $6 cheapo china  brand, so no big deal.  I understand the basis of the law, and I sort of agree with it. It was probably written with the intent of some high school kid stabbing his history classmate.  But its the same argument with guns, bad guys are going to get guns/knives, and rocks (thinking border patrol).  Good guys have nothing to cut their grapefruits with now except a spork.  

 

Off topic a bit, FYI,  on international flights, First class has real silverware including knives that a terrorist can hone a heck of an edge on during a 12 hour flight.  Just sayin.. Makes no sense, except to say how airline corporations view their customer classes. 



#20 RANDY

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 12:58 PM

Didn't they also determine in an southern IL case back in 2013 that there was no exemption for law enforcement under 21-6.  so how about those 6 or 7 class 1 or class 2 weapons that are in the squad car.  Do they have security officer permits for every state, county and township road, or government building they enter.  


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#21 jim schad

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 05:13 PM

So the one that I've been carrying for around forty years and has been sharpened a few times would be considered as one of those "dangerous weapons?" 

 

New one on top for comparison.  Wish they still made this one as I'm old school.
 
 
 
 
knives.jpg






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