OldMarineVet Posted December 20, 2016 at 04:38 PM Share Posted December 20, 2016 at 04:38 PM This quote from the article says it all: "As Alan Gottlieb of the Second Amendment Foundation notes, “Only the government can take 26 pages to justify a right” that the Founders spelled out in a single line." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriumphRider Posted January 25, 2017 at 06:05 PM Share Posted January 25, 2017 at 06:05 PM Just got this e-maIL from the higher ups at Scott AFB!!!!!! "Col xxxxxx Scott AFB Installation Commander, has authorized the transport of Privately Owned Firearms (POFs) on/off Scott AFB IAW Illinois state laws and in compliance with the additional restrictions specified below. This policy applies to all base employees and inhabitants assigned to Scott AFB and any visitors to the installation. Personnel may transit on/off Scott AFB with a POF as long as the weapon is configured to the following guidelines prior to entering, and at all times while within the installation’s boundaries. Under no circumstances will personnel have a loaded weapon on the installation or remove weapons from their vehicles while on the installation. Additionally, all personnel must declare their firearms to Security Forces (SF) personnel during a traffic stop, vehicle inspection, Random Antiterrorism Measure, or Random Installation Entry Vehicle Check. IAW AFI 31-101, Integrated Defense, paragraph 8.4.2.1.2., “Transported privately owned weapons/firearms will be completely unloaded (no magazine or ammunition in the weapon), and POF must be in a locked container. For purposes of this subsection, ‘locked container’ includes a lockable glove box or center console, the trunk of a car, a firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container. The proper storing of the POF must be done before entering the installation. Additionally, POF must be secured in a completely enclosed vehicle (no motorcycles or convertibles with top down).” This new policy allows for personnel to transport/store their weapon(s) in their vehicles while on base and provides an opportunity for lawful carry of POFs while off of the installation. Let me emphasize again that under no circumstances will personnel have a loaded weapon or remove weapons from their vehicle while on the installation. If you have any specific questions or concerns, please contact me or anyone in the Security Office." IMO - They are going to have to clarify the motorcycles statement, as I (and a LOT of folks) have lockable saddle bags that DO meet the 'Lockable Container' requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa Posted January 25, 2017 at 06:52 PM Share Posted January 25, 2017 at 06:52 PM A fine way to allow service members to protect themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriumphRider Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:02 PM Share Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:02 PM I was EXTREMELY surprised to get that message. It is a step in the right direction, which is pretty rare for Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:02 PM Share Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:02 PM The announcement comes on a day when I'm away from the office (and my Scott AFB email). Thanks for posting this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:06 PM Share Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:06 PM A fine way to allow service members to protect themselves. It is a step in the right direction! Not a big one, but a step nevertheless. For those that commute long distance or make stops after work, this will at least help them during their time off-base. Of course, it will do nothing to mitigate risks of attack on the base. I hope POTUS delivers on his campaign pledge to remove GFZ status from military installations. It was a "day one" promise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:09 PM Share Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:09 PM I was EXTREMELY surprised to get that message. It is a step in the right direction, which is pretty rare for Illinois. Same here. Can't help but wonder if some late-breaking preliminary guidance (perhaps a preview of what is to come?) flowed from SECDEF Mattis to the services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriumphRider Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:23 PM Share Posted January 25, 2017 at 07:23 PM · Hidden by mauserme, January 25, 2017 at 07:24 PM - No reason given Hidden by mauserme, January 25, 2017 at 07:24 PM - No reason given Double post - My bad. Link to comment
papa Posted January 25, 2017 at 09:11 PM Share Posted January 25, 2017 at 09:11 PM A fine way to allow service members to protect themselves. It is a step in the right direction! Not a big one, but a step nevertheless. For those that commute long distance or make stops after work, this will at least help them during their time off-base. Of course, it will do nothing to mitigate risks of attack on the base. I hope POTUS delivers on his campaign pledge to remove GFZ status from military installations. It was a "day one" promise... I agree it helps them when traveling away from or to base but I am very disappointed , as I am sure service members are , that they still can't protect themselves while on base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 26, 2017 at 04:04 AM Share Posted January 26, 2017 at 04:04 AM I was EXTREMELY surprised to get that message. It is a step in the right direction, which is pretty rare for Illinois. TriumphRider, I just checked my base email and this message isn't there yet. It may be routing through my organization's staff offices first. I'll PM you my work email... can you forward the original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriumphRider Posted January 26, 2017 at 01:02 PM Share Posted January 26, 2017 at 01:02 PM I was EXTREMELY surprised to get that message. It is a step in the right direction, which is pretty rare for Illinois.TriumphRider, I just checked my base email and this message isn't there yet. It may be routing through my organization's staff offices first. I'll PM you my work email... can you forward the original? It should have hit your inbox 3 minutes ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 26, 2017 at 01:36 PM Share Posted January 26, 2017 at 01:36 PM Thank you! Let's not overlook the fact that this offers relief to retirees, reservists, guard personnel, and those driving to Scott Air Force Base for a TDY. Many drive for several hours to get here, and this allows them to be protected while traveling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 26, 2017 at 05:59 PM Share Posted January 26, 2017 at 05:59 PM All--I checked and learned that this policy hasn't been officially released yet. Sometimes draft policies get released "into the wild" before being signed, which I believe is what happened here. Recommend waiting to see the official signed policy, released through Public Affairs, before transporting an unloaded firearm in a locked case on the installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriumphRider Posted January 26, 2017 at 06:13 PM Share Posted January 26, 2017 at 06:13 PM KWC - Excellent advice. I know that I do NOT want to be the first one to get a base exit vehicle search with a firearm in my truck before it becomes official base policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 26, 2017 at 08:05 PM Share Posted January 26, 2017 at 08:05 PM Public Affairs just posted that the policy is NOT yet in effect: The installation commander is in the final stages of approval to allow the transport of privately owned firearms (POF) on/off Scott AFB IAW Illinois state law and federal guidelines. Once the policy has completed coordination with base agencies and is approved by the installation commander, it will be distributed to base personnel. Until then, Scott AFB remains under the current policy that states personnel may only transport firearms directly from their base residence, Security Forces Armory, or the BX gun sales counter directly to off-base. Storage of POFs in vehicles is not authorized at this time. Please direct questions to Security Forces at xxx-xxxx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevepk Posted January 27, 2017 at 01:33 PM Share Posted January 27, 2017 at 01:33 PM I didn't know you could not. I had a rifle on Scott last October. I think this is just a re-stating policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted January 27, 2017 at 02:31 PM Share Posted January 27, 2017 at 02:31 PM I didn't know you could not. I had a rifle on Scott last October. I think this is just a re-stating policy. Oops. If you had been stopped entering or leaving for a random vehicle inspection, things would have been rough for you. This has been the policy for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted February 2, 2017 at 06:12 PM Share Posted February 2, 2017 at 06:12 PM At a press conference yesterday, The Daily Caller asked about President Trump's campaign promise to eliminate GFZs in schools and military installations. Press Secretary Sean Spicer didn't answer the question directly, but did say in response that “We’re going to continue to move forward with this process and I think we’ll have further updates on where we are with respect to the EO process.” IMHO schools will be hard to do via executive order, but military installations should be far easier. Stay tuned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted February 11, 2017 at 02:27 PM Share Posted February 11, 2017 at 02:27 PM I'm hearing from multiple sources that DoDD 5210.56 was not well accepted by all the service chiefs and that it will be revised. Provisions for carrying personally-owned firearms are the sticking point. Additionally, the Air Force hasn't yet updated AFI 31-117, the guidance that implements DoDD 5210.56. In my opinion the new administration is going to have to take a firm position on this to make on-installation carry happen, perhaps via executive order directed at the Pentagon. During his campaign, President Trump promised he would rescind military installation GFZ status on day 1. Mr. President, we're waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarineVet Posted February 11, 2017 at 03:02 PM Share Posted February 11, 2017 at 03:02 PM Agreed. All this BS is like watching grass grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriumphRider Posted March 1, 2017 at 01:19 PM Share Posted March 1, 2017 at 01:19 PM Noticed brand new 'compliant' "no guns" signs on the doors of my building on base this morning. Maybe this is in preparation for the policy becoming active soon. If I run into the building manager today I will query him about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted March 2, 2017 at 02:44 PM Share Posted March 2, 2017 at 02:44 PM Noticed brand new 'compliant' "no guns" signs on the doors of my building on base this morning. Maybe this is in preparation for the policy becoming active soon. If I run into the building manager today I will query him about it. New signs are posted at the Shiloh and Belleville gates announcing that "Concealed Carry on Scott Air Force Base is Prohibited," and stating that firearms must be kept unloaded and locked in a case. I haven't seen an official announcement yet, but based on this signage, it looks like the new policy (as described in Post #152 above) is either now in effect or will go "live" shortly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted March 2, 2017 at 08:49 PM Share Posted March 2, 2017 at 08:49 PM And... the policy is published! On Scott AFB, LEOSA-credentialed personnel can now carry in their facilities with the exception of facilities owned by several tenant organizations. "No Firearms" stickers are posted on those facilities. All other personnel, including employees, inhabitants, and visitors, may bring a firearm onto the installation and keep it stored in a vehicle, unloaded and in a locked container. The installation commander signed the 16 Jan 2017 policy, released officially today, entitled "Privately Owned Firearm (POF) Vehicle Carriage/Storage Authorization, Policies, and Procedures on Scott AFB." Primary content follows. 1. I hereby authorize portal-to-portal transport of Privately Owned Firearms (POFs) on/off Scott AFB IAW Illinois state laws and in compliance with the additional restrictions specified below. This policy applies to all base employees and inhabitants (active duty, reserve, guard, and civil service) assigned to Scott AFB and any visitors to the installation. 2. Personnel may transit on/off Scott AFB with a POF as long as the weapon is configured to the following guidelines prior to entering, and at all times while within, the installation’s boundaries. Under no circumstances will personnel have a loaded weapon on the installation or remove weapons from their vehicles while on the installation. Additionally, all personnel must declare their firearms to Security Forces (SF) personnel during a traffic stop, vehicle inspection, Random Antiterrorism Measure, or Random Installation Entry Vehicle Check. a. IAW AFI 31-101, Integrated Defense, paragraph 8.4.2.1.2., “Transported privately owned weapons/firearms will be completely unloaded (no magazine or ammunition in the weapon), and POF must be in a locked container. For purposes of this subsection, ‘locked container’ includes a lockable glove box or center console, the trunk of a car, a firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container. The proper storing of the POF must be done before entering the installation. Additionally, POF must be secured in a completely enclosed vehicle (no motorcycles or convertibles with top down).” 3. This new policy allows for personnel to transport/store their weapon(s) in their vehicles while on base and provide an opportunity for lawful carry of POFs while off of the installation. This guidance will be incorporated into the Integrated Defense Plan 31-1. It doesn't come close to concealed carry, but at least those who commute to the base, attend off-base activities immediately after work, or drive long distances (e.g. retirees who visit the Commissary or the Clinic) now don't have to remain unarmed when visiting or leaving the base. Of course, nonresidents (like most active duty members) must still follow Illinois guidelines outside the fence line and cannot carry concealed firearms outside of their cars or homes. ("FOID transport," unloaded and in a case, is still an option, however.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted March 4, 2017 at 02:51 PM Share Posted March 4, 2017 at 02:51 PM For those looking for a link, the press release will likely appear on www.scott.af.mil before long. It is now posted in the base Facebook page: https://m.facebook.com/notes/scott-air-force-base/leosa-and-personally-owned-firearms-update/1597628770252978 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted May 3, 2017 at 12:06 PM Share Posted May 3, 2017 at 12:06 PM We're over 100 days into the new presidency and his promised "day 1" action to repeal the GFZ status of military installations remains vaporware. When will POTUS deliver on this promise? Inquiring minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldMarineVet Posted May 3, 2017 at 01:32 PM Share Posted May 3, 2017 at 01:32 PM We're over 100 days into the new presidency and his promised "day 1" action to repeal the GFZ status of military installations remains vaporware. When will POTUS deliver on this promise? Inquiring minds want to know.me too, KWC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 1, 2017 at 08:00 PM Share Posted August 1, 2017 at 08:00 PM 193 days into this presidency. No action. None. During the campaign I suspected this "promise" was made purely to get votes. Now I'm convinced that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plinkermostly Posted August 2, 2017 at 12:50 PM Share Posted August 2, 2017 at 12:50 PM Definition of a Politian: '"promise" was made purely to get votes.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted February 25, 2018 at 07:40 PM Share Posted February 25, 2018 at 07:40 PM POTUS is talking about military carry on base again, this time at CPAC: https://americanmilitarynews.com/2018/02/trump-floats-letting-troops-carry-personal-weapons-on-bases/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted March 1, 2018 at 02:46 PM Share Posted March 1, 2018 at 02:46 PM In the midst of all the bad news on gun control initiatives comes this statement from President Trump, made during his televised conversation with Rep Rutherford (R-FL): Rutherford: "But … we don’t want to do away with gun-free zones." Trump: "As far as I’m concerned, I would, and I would do it with the military. In fact, I’m looking to get rid of gun-free zones in the military. We have military bases with gun-free zones and we had five incredible soldiers, three of whom were championship shooters, that were nowhere near their gun and this whack job walked in and killed all of them, and they were defenseless. And if they had their guns, he would have been gone in a second." More here: https://www.news4jax.com/news/president-trump-rep-rutherford-discuss-gun-free-zones It could just be talk, but now he’s mentioned it twice in the past week. Perhaps he is getting serious about this now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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