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Spouse being hospitalized, how will this affect my foid


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#1 Jeremy

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:21 PM

My spouse was recently hospitalized for mental health reasons.  The staff at the hospital asked me about guns in the house and asked if my wife and I have foid cards.  We do both have foid cards.  I know they can't revoke my foid, but if they do end up revoking my wife's, will they still allow me to store firearms in my house?  I feel like I've heard stories about the state police showing up to seize firearms.  I don't want that to happen.

 

I've already taken action to make sure the firearms are not accessible by my wife.  Is that enough or do I still risk losing my firearms?

 

I would appreciate any advice.  Also, if there's any law written on this, that would be helpful to know.  I'm just not sure where to look.

 

Thanks in advance.



#2 Craigcelia

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:29 PM

Sorry to hear about your wife.  I know how it feels to have family members affected with mental illness.

 

I know this has come up here a few times.  I don't think they can trample on your rights because of the situation with your wife.  I think the main thing is she shouldn't have access to firearms until she is stablized, but here lies the problem....she will lose her FOID.  With regards to your wife's FOID, they (hospital) will report her to ISP and she will end up losing her FOID - it's unfortunate.  People who seek treatment get penalized like this, yet at the same time you know her safety and well being is more important.

 

I would think as long as you have taken those steps of securing the firearms from her, your fine. 

 

She should receive a letter from ISP saying she must turn in her FOID to her local law enforcement agency and not have access to firearms, etc.  Your local PD will issue her a special type of receipt, and forward the FOID to the ISP.

 

I know others will chime in here....., again, I am sorry this is happening to your family.  This too shall pass my friend.

 

Here is the law about her receiving notification:
  (430 ILCS 65/3.1)E3:

The Department of State Police shall provide notice of the disqualification of a person under subsection (B) of this Section or the revocation of a person's Firearm Owner's Identification Card under Section 8 or Section 8.2 of this Act, and the reason for the disqualification or revocation, to all law enforcement agencies with jurisdiction to assist with the seizure of the person's Firearm Owner's Identification Card and;

 

(430 ILCS 65/3.3) 

    Sec. 3.3. Report to the local law enforcement agency. The Department of State Police must report the name and address of a person to the local law enforcement agency where the person resides if the person attempting to purchase a firearm is disqualified from purchasing a firearm because of information obtained under subsection (a-10) of Section 3 or Section 3.1 that would disqualify the person from obtaining a Firearm Owner's Identification Card under any of subsections © through (n) of Section 8 of this Act.   

 

(Basically, they will copy your local law enforcement agency on this letter - I highly doubt any agency will go to your house)

 

Here is the link about FOID and the law:  http://www.ilga.gov/...57&ChapterID=39


Edited by Craigcelia, 09 August 2018 - 01:56 PM.


#3 Glock23

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:56 PM

I feel like I've heard stories about the state police showing up to seize firearms.  I don't want that to happen.


If it does happen:

1. Don't let them in without a warrant.
2. Show them your FOID card and assure them that the guns are locked up and not accessible to your wife.
3. If they ask to verify this, see #1.

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#4 TRJ

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 02:19 PM

I'm pretty sure if you ask there's one of us here who could handle no BS safekeeping of your stuff if you need a quick way to get it out of your house where she can't have any access. My safe is stuffed to the gills, or I'd offer you some space here. Best of luck with this. Hope they can rectify her problems.



#5 Mr. Fife

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 05:35 PM

Praying for you and your wife.
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#6 WitchDoctor

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:46 PM

Yes sir, deepest sympathie's to you and your wife. I know nothing about the law, but the heart...

I hope this gets passed all of you swiftly with desired results.

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#7 Xwing

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:46 AM

As mentioned before, no-one can search your home without a warrant (unless you willingly let them in.)  And if you restrict access from your wife (e.g. by putting in a locked drawer or with a gun lock), you've met the requirements of the law.  Don't let an overzealous state agency hold you to a higher arbitrary standard!


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#8 Illini2A312

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 08:21 AM

As others have said here, condolences for what you and your spouse are going through. I thought it'd be useful to post the link to the appeals instruction thread for when things are (hopefully!) better/resolved - http://illinoiscarry...showtopic=47227

#9 BigJim

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:41 AM

Sadly the big issue will be your wife getting her FOID back once she's fully recovered.


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#10 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:54 AM

I'm pretty sure if you ask there's one of us here who could handle no BS safekeeping of your stuff if you need a quick way to get it out of your house where she can't have any access. My safe is stuffed to the gills, or I'd offer you some space here. Best of luck with this. Hope they can rectify her problems.

I have 5 large safes, with the antique collection gone, one is free (just don't tell the wife) I had to give away a HUGE Cabela's away because my wife wouldn't let me bring it home (for free!!!)  

Anyhow. 

 

If anything I suspect they local PD will come/call looking for her FOID, they will ask if she has any firearms, I did say yes but they are all secured in my safe and she can't get in. 

That's what happened to me.  

 

She has no longer has a foid and I'm not ambitious enough to do anything about it. 


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#11 soylentgreen

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 07:57 PM

Mental illness is not an easy thing to deal with. I'm hoping for the best.

Honestly...at no time would I admit that there are any guns in my house. Let them get a warrant if they think a crime has occurred. Having a FOID is not proof of gun ownership. Personally, I'd have a conversation with a lawyer about the situation...someone well-versed in gun law and who is pro-gun. The USCCA and other organizations have lists of pro-gun lawyers on their websites.



#12 WitchDoctor

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 09:13 PM

Mental illness is not an easy thing to deal with. I'm hoping for the best.

Honestly...at no time would I admit that there are any guns in my house. Let them get a warrant if they think a crime has occurred. Having a FOID is not proof of gun ownership. Personally, I'd have a conversation with a lawyer about the situation...someone well-versed in gun law and who is pro-gun. The USCCA and other organizations have lists of pro-gun lawyers on their websites.

This sounds like solid advice. Know what might happen before it might happen and be prepared in case.

Best wishes....


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#13 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 10:22 AM

Mental illness is not an easy thing to deal with. I'm hoping for the best.

Honestly...at no time would I admit that there are any guns in my house. Let them get a warrant if they think a crime has occurred. Having a FOID is not proof of gun ownership. Personally, I'd have a conversation with a lawyer about the situation...someone well-versed in gun law and who is pro-gun. The USCCA and other organizations have lists of pro-gun lawyers on their websites.

 

I guess that's true if they ask you, but if they ask her there's legal requirements of having a form and not lying about ownership is on there.

This would also be questionable if they were under 21 as well. 

 

When they asked me it was a rhetorical question anyhow, I've shot with a few of them. 


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#14 UpperAtmosphere

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 08:46 PM

I’ve been through this with a family member who had a FOID revoked for similar reasons.

Expect the letter, it’ll definitely be coming.

The local police didn’t show up in my case, but I did take pains to get it done quickly. Sheriff’s office was surprised, they said it usually takes months before someone turns in the card. Was a very difficult thing to do, I’m not gonna lie. They didn’t give me any hassle about it and I haven’t heard from them since.

#15 Illini2A312

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:03 PM

I’ve been through this with a family member who had a FOID revoked for similar reasons.
Expect the letter, it’ll definitely be coming.
The local police didn’t show up in my case, but I did take pains to get it done quickly. Sheriff’s office was surprised, they said it usually takes months before someone turns in the card. Was a very difficult thing to do, I’m not gonna lie. They didn’t give me any hassle about it and I haven’t heard from them since.


Another thing just occurred to me - if the OP has access to login info the current status of the FOID can be checked on the ISP website.

#16 Smallbore

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 07:39 AM

It is sad that in our suppose to be free country that this is a concern.
Mental health issues have been long used as a back door attack on a basic right. The antis have successfully gotten the pros to support this attack.
The individual with mental health needs go back home not forbidden possessions of many dangerous items located through out the house from the kitchen to the garage. Forbidding possession of a gun is not about protecting that individual nor others but stricking about attacking the 2A.
It is terrible that we stigmatize and deny a basic right to whole class of people based on what an very small percent in that bureaucratically declared class may or may not do.

#17 soylentgreen

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 10:50 AM

 

 

I guess that's true if they ask you, but if they ask her there's legal requirements of having a form and not lying about ownership is on there.

This would also be questionable if they were under 21 as well. 

 

When they asked me it was a rhetorical question anyhow, I've shot with a few of them. 

 

 

No one, as far as I know, is required to answer any questions or incriminate themselves. Be that question on a form or oral. I'm not suggesting anyone lie about anything. I'm advocating the right to refuse to answer questions you don't want to answer. That I know of, you're under no legal obligation to tell the truth to police.



#18 jkdkaliman101

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 01:27 AM

Hmmm, with the red flag law,
If a judge grants an order that someone's FOID should be suspended it is my understanding that their firearms can be relinquished to someone else's care that does NOT reside in the same home. If that's true, wouldn't it be the same for someone that lost their FOID due to mental health treatment? What would stop someone with suicidal thoughts/ anger issues OR someone that is truly mentally unstable or unpredictable from forcing their significant other to open that safe, forcing them under duress that is. I have a family member who lost his FOID two years ago due to voluntary commitment and his guns were siezed. I eventually was able to get them all transferred to me legally through the ISP. This family member wants his spouse to obtain her own FOID, then buy a safe and then have me transfer all his guns over to HER legally to be locked up in the safe and under her care and FOID but I am hesitant to do so until and only when/if he gets his own FOID. So this is a topic I'm interested in. If she gets a valid FOID and buys a safe to store them, can I transfer ownership to her and be absolved of any and all responsibility?

Edited by jkdkaliman101, 14 August 2018 - 01:29 AM.

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#19 borgranta

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Posted 14 August 2018 - 02:00 AM

Hmmm, with the red flag law,
If a judge grants an order that someone's FOID should be suspended it is my understanding that their firearms can be relinquished to someone else's care that does NOT reside in the same home. If that's true, wouldn't it be the same for someone that lost their FOID due to mental health treatment? What would stop someone with suicidal thoughts/ anger issues OR someone that is truly mentally unstable or unpredictable from forcing their significant other to open that safe, forcing them under duress that is. I have a family member who lost his FOID two years ago due to voluntary commitment and his guns were siezed. I eventually was able to get them all transferred to me legally through the ISP. This family member wants his spouse to obtain her own FOID, then buy a safe and then have me transfer all his guns over to HER legally to be locked up in the safe and under her care and FOID but I am hesitant to do so until and only when/if he gets his own FOID. So this is a topic I'm interested in. If she gets a valid FOID and buys a safe to store them, can I transfer ownership to her and be absolved of any and all responsibility?

Once the wife has a FOID and safe the best way to transfer may be through an FFL.  The firearms may legally belong to both the husband and wife as marital property.  Failure to transfer to the wife may therefore be illegal if she meets safe storage laws.  I could use your reasoning to claim that parents with kids have no right to firearms because their kids could gain access to guns by coercing the parent to open the gun safe.  How would you feel if a home invader harmed the family members in question subsequent to you refusing to return any of the guns to their household?


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#20 jkdkaliman101

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 09:03 AM

@borgranta I don't want to deny them their firearms. I was only making a comparison. You didn't really answer my question or address my understanding of the red flag law. My concern is IF the firearms are required to be removed from the home because the owner of said firearm was tagged a threat
Under the red flag law regardless if his/her spouse can legally own the firearms and store them under their supervision under lock and key then what makes it ok for me to transfer to a spouse of someone that has had their FOID revoked for mental health issues? I'm ok with transferring these firearms legally to the spouse when and if she obtains a FOID as well as a means of securing them under her control. I just want to make sure it's 100% legal and legit before doing so. I don't want any legal repercussions coming back on me down the road. I should point out the family member that had their FOID revoked threatened to kill himself, the spouse called 911 and they took him in for a mental evaluation (voluntarily).. Can you understand my hesitation? I do NOT want to transfer these firearms to HER after she gets her FOID and a safe, have something happen and then Johnny law comes after me because he was forbidden to be around them and her bringing them back into the home was a no-no because of his restrictions. Personally I only feel confident giving them back when and if HE becomes a legal FOID holder again but if she IS allowed to legally own them and they are able to keep them in home under her care and I'm 100% ok legally with that... than fine... unless SHE decides she doesn't want that responsibility. The husband has shown VERY violent tendencies in the past. My concern of him. Forcing her to open the safe under duress is understandable is it not? Granted he is now on meds and getting treatment and we haven't seen any violent tendencies in about 6 months but I'm not so quick to just say "ok, here ya go..take em all back" especially if he falls into a category (like a red flag recipient) that can not be around them.
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#21 borgranta

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 12:02 PM

@borgranta I don't want to deny them their firearms. I was only making a comparison. You didn't really answer my question or address my understanding of the red flag law. My concern is IF the firearms are required to be removed from the home because the owner of said firearm was tagged a threat
Under the red flag law regardless if his/her spouse can legally own the firearms and store them under their supervision under lock and key then what makes it ok for me to transfer to a spouse of someone that has had their FOID revoked for mental health issues? I'm ok with transferring these firearms legally to the spouse when and if she obtains a FOID as well as a means of securing them under her control. I just want to make sure it's 100% legal and legit before doing so. I don't want any legal repercussions coming back on me down the road. I should point out the family member that had their FOID revoked threatened to kill himself, the spouse called 911 and they took him in for a mental evaluation (voluntarily).. Can you understand my hesitation? I do NOT want to transfer these firearms to HER after she gets her FOID and a safe, have something happen and then Johnny law comes after me because he was forbidden to be around them and her bringing them back into the home was a no-no because of his restrictions. Personally I only feel confident giving them back when and if HE becomes a legal FOID holder again but if she IS allowed to legally own them and they are able to keep them in home under her care and I'm 100% ok legally with that... than fine... unless SHE decides she doesn't want that responsibility. The husband has shown VERY violent tendencies in the past. My concern of him. Forcing her to open the safe under duress is understandable is it not? Granted he is now on meds and getting treatment and we haven't seen any violent tendencies in about 6 months but I'm not so quick to just say "ok, here ya go..take em all back" especially if he falls into a category (like a red flag recipient) that can not be around them.

Tranferring it through an FFL would be best since an FFL would not knowingly break the law by transferring illegally.
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