45Badger Posted June 1, 2020 at 09:21 AM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 09:21 AM Anyone have a source for non-lethal 12 gauge shotgun shells? Experience with options? Bags, rubbber slugs, other? Seems like having an available box of “dissuasion” that falls short of DRT would be a nice option. Semi-related topic.... The number of individuals engaging crowds getting their a** kicked is a bit disturbing, especially the ones doing it with ineffective weapons (bows, swords, machetes). If you’re in deep poop, a handgun or social work shotgun would seem to be a much more effective SD and crowd engagement tool. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted June 1, 2020 at 10:19 AM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 10:19 AM Ammo Depot (and other places) sells S&B rubber slugs. S&B also makes rubber buckshot and rubber ball rounds that they advertise as lethal at short range and non-lethal at longer range. Bass Pro (and other places) sells Fiocchi rubber slugs. Fiocchi also makes rubber buckshot. TFB has a review of Fiocchi rubber buckshot and rubber slugs. The buckshot doesn't pattern so much as scatter. I'm not impressed. LG Outdoors (and others) sells Lightfield rubber slugs. I have never tried any of them. I hear rubber rounds won't cycle a semi-auto. FWIW, I think bean bag rounds are 40mm, not 12 gauge, but ... Outdoor Limited sells a round from Paraklese Technologies that they call Mean Bean, which is #8 birdshot in a sock, but they say it's for animal control only. I've never tried that, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyP Posted June 1, 2020 at 12:08 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 12:08 PM I 'guess' if the round in the chamber/1st available round in the magazine of a 12ga were "non-lethal", if/when the threat quickly turns lethal it would be easy enough to continue firing the remaining full-boat 00 buck rounds for one's 2nd and subsequent shots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odinson Posted June 1, 2020 at 02:58 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 02:58 PM Birdshot would deter me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted June 1, 2020 at 04:23 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 04:23 PM Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted June 1, 2020 at 04:34 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 04:34 PM Why?+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted June 1, 2020 at 04:38 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 04:38 PM Why? +1Its a common misconception that less lethal=non lethal. This is a perilous legal trap a private citizen does not want to delve into. The legal standard for you to use less lethal force is the same as lethal force. So use what effectively stops the threat, but only when deadly force is warranted. Less lethal just means it kills at a lower rate than lethal force, it doesnt mean its non lethal. Even something like pepper balls that are based on the same paintballs people shoot each other with for fun on weekends can be deadly against someone without a safety mask. Look into the death of Victoria Snelgrovehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Victoria_Snelgrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted June 1, 2020 at 05:08 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 05:08 PM When engaged by a crowd, when the “ASK” was given from X feet away, there is no warning/non-lethal shot!Load a firearm as you would under any normal circumstances, just as you carry (hopefully not with a dummy round in the chamber).Rules of thumb would seem to be if you have to take it out then you should be ready to fully use it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted June 1, 2020 at 05:15 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 05:15 PM I have no training in the use of non-lethal rounds, so I will avoid until I receive some training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted June 1, 2020 at 05:50 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 05:50 PM Anyone have a source for non-lethal 12 gauge shotgun shells? Experience with options? Bags, rubbber slugs, other? Seems like having an available box of “dissuasion” that falls short of DRT would be a nice option. Semi-related topic.... The number of individuals engaging crowds getting their a** kicked is a bit disturbing, especially the ones doing it with ineffective weapons (bows, swords, machetes). If you’re in deep poop, a handgun or social work shotgun would seem to be a much more effective SD and crowd engagement tool. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Here's the best of both worlds.The railroad cops used to shoot these at us from trains.https://gumgullyprovision.com/product/12-gauge-rock-salt-ammunition/Here's the results at different distances.https://www.guns.com/news/2012/08/27/rock-salt-shotgunThere's a comment by a different Karen in the comment section.Kieran Taylor: Good for nazis and fascists. The flies that make their way into my house would agree that salt works. I love my a-salt-gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted June 1, 2020 at 05:55 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 05:55 PM Can’t edit my post above so here a new one!I went to the links and did some reading, went further and did a little google surfing.Seem the school of thought is that you don’t fear for your life and use the non-lethal shot some ore talking about having in the chamber.But then for some reason you fear for your life and begins utilizing the real Mcoys. What would be the defense when arrested possibly and then go to court?I keep it there so I don’t kill people!Yes I guess I could have had a second round for a bit more safety!Yes Sir, having the entire mag loaded with non lethal would have saved his life maybe and mine!But you see, I was already shooting him BEFORE I feared for my life....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted June 1, 2020 at 06:56 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 06:56 PM So do we prefer .22 or nonlethal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS1 Posted June 1, 2020 at 07:18 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 07:18 PM Less lethal rounds are for crowd control and individual compliance. They are not tools for self defense. Typically they are used in teams, or at least pairs, where support officer's have "lethal" means at the ready. They aren't used by civilians for self defense. They are sometimes used by civilians against pests (rocknsalt, pepper balls). It puts your life in danger because it is less likely to stop a genuine threat. And also the lives of others since you will be more likely to use it yet it is still lethal (just less lethal). Leave the "crowd engagement" to those whose job it is to engage with crowds. They have the training and legal protection to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLOCK22 Posted June 1, 2020 at 11:03 PM Share Posted June 1, 2020 at 11:03 PM I have rubber buckshot for animal deterrent. If I'm in a situation where I feel I need to use a gun against a human being, it's going to be the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultra magnus Posted June 5, 2020 at 10:06 PM Share Posted June 5, 2020 at 10:06 PM If you want less lethal options I feel your better served by pepper spray, or a taser(a real taser, not a stun gun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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