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What gun can be used for CCL class


tdiller

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Was talking to a CCL instructor the other night at the VFW near me. He offers a ccl course to us veterans. I asked him about his classes and what weapon would be best to use for the class.

I know several folks in other states will use a smaller caliber to qualify for the license and then carry something larger. Other states you have to qualify with what you intend to carry.

 

Hi reply was anything can be used in the course except a 22.

 

Hmm I'm thinking I don't recall seeing anything in the laws defining what caliber weapon was needed for CC. I looked again and do not see anything saying that a CC weapon must be other than a 22.

 

I'm not saying it is a necessarily a good choice but I am just wondering if there is a rule about what caliber has to be used to qualify.

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© An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of certification by a certified instructor that the applicant passed a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm consisting of:
(1) a minimum of 30 rounds; and
(2) 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Department.
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The law doesn't require you to use any particular handgun. The instructor may have a reason for this decision, but there is no law saying you can't use a 22.

It would seem to me that regardless of his reason that he could not put such a restriction on his classes since this is a state approved type of thing. Then again he is one of those who like to bluster about stuff. He definitely ha sopinions on what caliber weapon should be used. The bigger the better in his mind even if the shooter can;t handle the weapon.

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Any safe gun can be used for the shooting portion of your class. Unless your instructor won't let you.

 

Obviously, you should use something you are comfortable with and can shoot well and accurately.

 

You do not need to use a gun you might carry... I would not use, for instance, a KelTec P-11 to qualify. The long heavy trigger pull makes me flinch. I would also not use a snubbie revolver with minimal sights, or a Beretta 22A.

 

You should become proficient with whatever gun you do choose to carry, before you carry it.

 

Have fun!

 

Then again he is one of those who like to bluster about stuff. He definitely has opinions on what caliber weapon should be used. The bigger the better in his mind even if the shooter can't handle the weapon.

 

I disagree with your instructor.

You should carry a gun you can shoot well and are comfortable with.

A gun that you can't shoot does you no good at all.

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I don't think there is a restriction on caliber? However in the class I took, the instructors politely asked that if at all possible to refrain from testing with magnum revolvers, so not to scare the heck out of the folks that have NEVER been subjected to hearing live gun fire.

 

I couldn't imagine anyone failing the live fire test... the target was so big and at 5, 7 and 10 yards, I've could've thrown my bullets and hit the target 30 times.

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Different instructors have different rules on how they run a class. Some don't allow head shots. Some ask you to space your shots so they can be counted instead of making one jagged hole in the middle.

 

is anyone still doing this?

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I would caution that until the instructor has a chance to explain his/her reasoning, that making any statements about the instructor is wrong. We are only hearing one side of the story. The OP did not give an explanation why the instructor said no 22. There might be a reason they are not allowed in his/her class (can I think of a reason, no). Yet, I discourage us from jumping to conclusions about the instructor until he/she is able to present his/her side.

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The only limitations I put on handguns used in ILCCL classes are that they be safe, something the shooter can handle safely, and meets the safety limits of the range we use. For example, a 5.56/.223 pistol might legally be a handgun but it cannot be fired on this range. I did have one joker ask if he could qualify with a Taurus Judge. I told him that was fine, as long as he didn't use .410 shotshell, as I would not be able to reliably score it.

 

 

-- Frank

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The instructor I had was the same way as yours. He didn't want any .22s or mouse guns being use for qualifications. He actually wanted to see how people handled a real gun to gauge competence.

But there's no IL specific law mandating that as has been noted by others.

After my test I saw the target from another instructors student who had used a .22.....I then understood exactly why that policy was in place. I remember thinking good luck to anyone standing behind his intended target. If you can barley keep them on the page with a .22 what's gonna happen when you pick up a 9mm.

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Different instructors have different rules on how they run a class. Some don't allow head shots. Some ask you to space your shots so they can be counted instead of making one jagged hole in the middle.
The ones that don't allow head shots are confused or frustrated about the multiple versions of the rules published by the state. The ones who ask their students to spread their shots around the target so they can count 30 individual holes don't grasp the concept of how to score a target.

 

As for the original question, there is nothing in the law that states what calibers can or can't be used, but there is also nothing in the law that prohibits an instructor from making such restrictions for his or her own reasons. Some instructors want students to only use a caliber appropriate for self defense. Some see this also as a liability issue. I can't fault them for that view, they are the ones that would be on the hook if they're right.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

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To the point asking "can someone fail the shooting qualification?" Yes. I saw it more than once.

Should snubnose .38 revolvers be used? I believe they should. As an example, we had an older woman who'd been steered into a lightweight J frame five-shooter. (One of the things that sets us to grinding.) She struggled but kept going, with our instruction, and then fired the qual at the end. All 30 rounds hit the target, and only three hit the 7 or 8 ring; the rest were 9-10-X. So it can, and should be, done- if that's your gun, shooting it under pressure is the right thing to do.

Shooting a large service pistol in a CCL class or qual seems, to be polite, counterproductive.

Meanwhile, I still consider Js and the like to be expert's guns. When we are in a store preparing for a class, despite our reluctance, we sometimes do do an "intervention" when a brand-new shooter is about to purchase a gun that they will not like, develop bad habits with instantly that will be hard to eliminate later if and when training is ever sought, and just plain won't get shot because it's so unpleasant to do so.

I can say when students bring light five-shooters to a class, it invariably results in the worst shooting results we will see. Even a Shield is vastly easier to hit with. (This opinion comes from a guy with quite a few snubs- not a snub-hater.)

On another note: we do a women's CCW shooting clinic and actually get requests from women who've gotten their CCL but have never shot outside of the IL CCL class. This is baffling and more than a little concerning.

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At least one instructor team that I know that posts here from time to time REQUIRE .22 and supply the guns and ammo because of range limitations. Nothing in the law requires "qualification" with the gun that you carry. Some states do have that stipulation. Not Illinois.

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I used my SR-22 because it had 3 10 round magazines which save me messing around with loading mags. I used CCI Mini-Mags so ammo quality wasn't an issue.

 

It's also easier on my arthritic hands. There was no problem at the class. And just for grins, an older woman came with an old single action revolver. She qualified but it took a little longer.

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I would caution that until the instructor has a chance to explain his/her reasoning, that making any statements about the instructor is wrong. We are only hearing one side of the story. The OP did not give an explanation why the instructor said no 22. There might be a reason they are not allowed in his/her class (can I think of a reason, no). Yet, I discourage us from jumping to conclusions about the instructor until he/she is able to present his/her side.

I didn't ask him why no 22 simply because like I said he likes to share his opinions loudly and this was at our monthly meeting so not the place or time to go into detail about his rules. I had no intention of using his services for the CCL class.

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He's 100% wrong. There isn't a caliber requirement that I know of. My buddy qualified with a .22.
It doesn't sound like he said the law doesn't allow 22lr, but that he doesn't allow it in his class. There is nothing in the law that says he can't have such a stipulation in his classes, as long as he is meeting all of the state's requirements.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

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That instructor is wrong find someone else, I used a snub nosed Smith and Wesson 38 special because at the time it was all I had, a few others used a 22.
The instructor is NOT wrong if he was saying he does not allow 22lr in his class. The law does not prohibit 22lr for qualification, but it likewise does NOT prohibit an instructor from setting such rules for his classes. His class, his rules. As long as he meets the required curriculum for the class.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

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Different instructors have different rules on how they run a class. Some don't allow head shots. Some ask you to space your shots so they can be counted instead of making one jagged hole in the middle.

The ones that don't allow head shots are confused or frustrated about the multiple versions of the rules published by the state. The ones who ask their students to spread their shots around the target so they can count 30 individual holes don't grasp the concept of how to score a target.

 

As for the original question, there is nothing in the law that states what calibers can or can't be used, but there is also nothing in the law that prohibits an instructor from making such restrictions for his or her own reasons. Some instructors want students to only use a caliber appropriate for self defense. Some see this also as a liability issue. I can't fault them for that view, they are the ones that would be on the hook if they're right.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

On some ranges, head shots risk shooting into the overhead baffles, hence the restriction on head shots.

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That instructor is wrong find someone else, I used a snub nosed Smith and Wesson 38 special because at the time it was all I had, a few others used a 22.

The instructor is NOT wrong if he was saying he does not allow 22lr in his class. The law does not prohibit 22lr for qualification, but it likewise does NOT prohibit an instructor from setting such rules for his classes. His class, his rules. As long as he meets the required curriculum for the class.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

The law also doesn't prohibit the instructor from making his students shoot while standing on one foot with a chicken on their head.

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The instructor in question certainly has the right and I might say the responsibility to limit his students to using a weapon that he feels is appropriate for the task at hand. Many new students are intimated by the qualifying portion and think they can’t do it with anything bigger than a 22. A responsible instructor will show them that a properly sized handgun of an appropriate caliber is very easily controlled during the qualifying. He will start that student out on a responsible gun carrying, more responsible life.
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