LightMyFire Posted March 16, 2014 at 06:16 AM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 06:16 AM From the pictures and videos it looks like they were looking thru and taking pictures of papers. In the last video I posted nutnfancy in the text over the video said that computers with customer names were confiscated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightMyFire Posted March 16, 2014 at 06:25 AM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 06:25 AM They also raided EP Armory for the same thing although it didn't get as much attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharz96 Posted March 16, 2014 at 07:47 AM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 07:47 AM Rule of law is a foreign concept these days. Decades of these agencies making the rules whatever the heck they want have made them think they ARE the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WtJen Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:19 AM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:19 AM If the owners were thinking they encrypted the data showing their customer list. This would lead to the drama of having a judge order them to give him the password to unlock and them refusing. The government and their agents need to be shown as the oppressors that they truly are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKoz Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:36 AM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:36 AM Is the county sheriff an anti-rights person also?? Would be interesting to see a stand-off between the sheriffs department and the ATF. OH, and .... Our Founding Fathers would have been shooting by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerxx Posted March 16, 2014 at 02:22 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 02:22 PM Unbelievably disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted March 16, 2014 at 03:11 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 03:11 PM Anyone know if they've established a legal fund? I'd throw them a few bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IL-Logical Posted March 16, 2014 at 03:25 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 03:25 PM I will have to find the article, but the atf got the restraining order overturned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted March 16, 2014 at 05:00 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 05:00 PM They also raided EP Armory for the same thing although it didn't get as much attention. Ares and EP are tied together over the lowers in question, so it's all part of the same raid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade13 Posted March 16, 2014 at 05:00 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 05:00 PM http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/breaking-atf-raids-ares-armor-in-direct-violation-of-court-issued-restraining-order/ UPDATE 3/16: Apparently the temporary restraining order obtained by Ares Armor was revised to include a clause to “not restrain lawful criminal proceedings”. So, I guess the ATF considers breaking into a business and stealing its computers and records is a “lawful criminal proceeding”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted March 16, 2014 at 05:07 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 05:07 PM http://gunssavelives...training-order/ Pretty sad that a pro-fun sight like Guns Save Lives is propagating the false urban myth that you can't transfer a firearm you built... Although in this case they might be correct since i don't believe the polymer 80% have the required metal plate to stamp a serial into, but that doesn't apply to ones that can be stamped... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Stu Posted March 16, 2014 at 05:15 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 05:15 PM Your tax dollars being pi$$ed away by a federal alphabet agency that thinks it makes the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BShawn Posted March 16, 2014 at 06:09 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 06:09 PM Is the county sheriff an anti-rights person also?? Would be interesting to see a stand-off between the sheriffs department and the ATF. OH, and .... Our Founding Fathers would have been shooting by now.Unbelievably disturbing. ^ this ^ x2 !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
really?_ILivehere Posted March 16, 2014 at 07:22 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 07:22 PM Apparently the order was not overturned for the customer list, that still stands. the reason for the raid was for unapproved 80% lowers. Apparently some of the lowers were never submitted to the ATF for approval. I have this on word from another manufacturer in CA close to the situation, he also says there's another company on the list for a raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:42 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 10:42 PM the reason for the raid was for unapproved 80% lowers. The ATF doesn't approve non-guns, they only evaluate what you send them and decide if they are a gun or not... And this is not a requirement to sell a non-gun, it's only a cautionary step most take, but once dozens of people get ATF letters verifying something is a non-gun many will simply copy what was done... And even if you get the letter saying it's a non-gun then it's just someone's opinion that day they have and likely will continue to flip flop on their opinions when it suits their agenda... Apparently some of the lowers were never submitted to the ATF for approval. The only difference between the EP blanks and all others is the fact the EPs were made from two different colors of plastic, if the color of the plastic is the turning point between a gun and a non-gun when no further finishing was done, IMO they are really reaching as it's physically identical to other 80% except for the color of the plastic... If you read the reports the reported claims of the ATF describe a manufacturing process that is incorrect and invalidates their claims if it is indeed untrue... Basically the ATF is saying they make a 100% lower and then fill in the holes with the different colored plastic, that would mean they manufactured a gun initially and would indeed be illegal if they sold it as a non-gun... But the manufacture says the internal different colored plastic is where the blank starts out and the rest is formed around it, meaning at no time was the blank completed any further then any other 80% lower blank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:14 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:14 PM Elections matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tvandermyde Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:28 PM Share Posted March 16, 2014 at 11:28 PM the reason for the raid was for unapproved 80% lowers. The ATF doesn't approve non-guns, they only evaluate what you send them and decide if they are a gun or not... And this is not a requirement to sell a non-gun, it's only a cautionary step most take, but once dozens of people get ATF letters verifying something is a non-gun many will simply copy what was done... And even if you get the letter saying it's a non-gun then it's just someone's opinion that day they have and likely will continue to flip flop on their opinions when it suits their agenda... Apparently some of the lowers were never submitted to the ATF for approval. The only difference between the EP blanks and all others is the fact the EPs were made from two different colors of plastic, if the color of the plastic is the turning point between a gun and a non-gun when no further finishing was done, IMO they are really reaching as it's physically identical to other 80% except for the color of the plastic... If you read the reports the reported claims of the ATF describe a manufacturing process that is incorrect and invalidates their claims if it is indeed untrue... Basically the ATF is saying they make a 100% lower and then fill in the holes with the different colored plastic, that would mean they manufactured a gun initially and would indeed be illegal if they sold it as a non-gun... But the manufacture says the internal different colored plastic is where the blank starts out and the rest is formed around it, meaning at no time was the blank completed any further then any other 80% lower blank... This is still fluid. Rocker is pretty close on this When it comes to "80%" lowers, thereis no such thing. there is just a point where a hunk of metal passes the point where ATF considers it via the manufacturing process a firearm. Each seller of the so called 80% need to submit them, to see if ATF considers them firearms or NOT. It's not that they are approving them, they are giving the part in question a designation of NOT being a firearm and then you have protections for the parts you want to sell. Also if the proces he dscribes is what I am hearig about, and they didn;t getit checked out, they have a problem. Add in they seem to have been tied to a group of foriegn nationals who were using -- you guessed it -- their lowers to make guns that may have been going either south of the border or to gangs. Before everyone jumps the gun here, there is much more to the story than meets the eye. Hold up until we get more information this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGT Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:01 AM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:01 AM Even w the restraining order they raided the company today or saturday. Saw it posted on facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:42 AM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 12:42 AM I don't think that submitting it is a requirement. If you clearly meet all of the criteria required to not be classified as a firearm you have played by the existing rules. The ATF has in the past changed their own interpetation and then gone after those previously told they were legal. The ATF has obviously been trying to strong arm Ares to get to somebody else and they are not playing ball. Now the ATF not unlike the IRS is using all the tools in the arsenal. Why? We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmcc Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:05 AM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 11:05 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconSorcerer Posted March 17, 2014 at 02:30 PM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 02:30 PM They are opening the safe with a sledgehammer are you kidding, they don't have a locksmith? I took a lock picking class from a military locksmith, I can get into any house in minute, (however don't bother buying good locks unless you remove your windows) I fully believe he could open any safe.I have BIG magdrlll and everything I would need and even knowing my safe types/internals it would take me at least a day to get in and just a sledgehammer forget about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKoz Posted March 17, 2014 at 02:31 PM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 02:31 PM ".... shall not be infringed." as long as an alphabet agency of the government says that what you have is OK. Note: said alphabet agency can change their mind at any time. It seems like the 2nd Amendment needs to be amended to the above. 4th Amendment, ahhhh screw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimGiblin Posted March 17, 2014 at 02:39 PM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 02:39 PM As someone that knows a lot of these guys. There are questions. Never before has a 80% been made in two parts. Everyone saying that's not a difference is simply lying. I don't believe those will be legal for long. Ares was 100% right on what's legal currently. Ares is 100% combat veteran owned and operated. I deployed with their head of r/d they are all snipers or more illustrious operators. So I'm very concerned with their far reaching connections this could get ugly. Loctite/paint pen/regularly check your gear. A gun falling off your belt is unacceptable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyGuy Posted March 17, 2014 at 02:49 PM Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 02:49 PM New York SAFE ActConnecticut banCalifornia Ares ArmorMaryland proposing ban No bueno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazzinbird Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:02 PM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:02 PM That video is disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:03 PM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:03 PM As always, if you depend on the main stream media for all of your information, you will never get the full story. This has nothing to do with the their 80% lowers customer list.It has everything to do with the possibility that Ares manufacturing and selling complete lowers and complete firearms with no serial numbers and no Fed law compliance such as the 4473. Here's a quote from the affidavit that the ATF used to get a search warrant for a similar business .This is what the ATF believes that Ares was about. This is/was a total criminal act: On March 19, 2013, an undercover law enforcement officer (“UC#1”) visited LCG AR Parts and Custom Accessories (“LCG”) [ED: NOT Ares Armor], located at 8524 Florin Road, Sacramento (Attachment A-1). LCG is a small gun parts store located within a larger commercial plaster retail store. At LCG, UC#1 was met by MICHAEL TURNER. UC#1 asked TURNER about firearms. TURNER informed UC#1 that UC#1 could purchase an AR-15 blank at LCG and “mill it out” in the back of the shop the same day – essentially creating a firearm from scratch.[...]On April 3, 2013, UC#1 met TURNER at LCG. UC#1 removed an AR-15-style pistol off the display wall of LCG and explained that he wanted to model the pistol after the one on display. TURNER handed UC#1 an AR-15 blank that was made of aluminum. UC#1 asked how long it takes to make the AR-15 blank into a firearm. TURNER informed UC#1 that such a firearm could be made in about two hours. TURNER informed UC#1 that UC#1 would drill five holes and then “Jimmy” would “clean it up.” TURNER is pictured below in a screenshot from the video recorded by UC#1.TURNER identified “Jimmy” (individual later identified as EMILIANO CORTEZ) and indicated UC#1 should follow EMILIANO CORTEZ. EMILIANO CORTEZ and TURNER guided UC#1 out of the firearm shop (located within the plastering business) towards the back of the business. Upon arriving at the rear of the business, TURNER told UC#1 that EMILIANO CORTEZ was going to set the AR-15 blank into a “jig.”TURNER informed UC#1 that UC#1 would have to drill five holes in the AR-15 blank, and then EMILIANO CORTEZ would mill the remainder to complete the receiver. UC#1 was directed to use a drill press and instructed how to operate the drill press – in essence, UC#1 was operating the drill press as a surrogate for EMILIANO CORTEZ – EMILIANO CORTEZ directed each and every move made by UC#1. EMILIANO CORTEZ would motion to the UC#1 when to stop and reposition the AR-15 blank. Subsequently, TURNER took UC#1 back to the front of LCG and informed UC#1 that EMILIANO CORTEZ would finish the receiver within the next hour and a half.[...]According to the Department of Homeland Security, EMILIANO CORTEZ is a Mexican national who has previously been deported and is illegally present within the United States. Further, EMILIANO CORTEZ is a convicted felon. In 2010, in Nevada County, California, EMILIANO CORTEZ was convicted of possession of an assault weapon and sentenced to sixteen months in prison.[...]Several minutes later, CI#1 departed from LCG in possession of an AR-15 pistol, two boxes of ammunition, and a large-capacity magazine. At no point was CI#1 required to fill out a background check form or complete any paperwork that is required by ATF prior to the purchase of a firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyGuy Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:22 PM Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:22 PM So UC cops did the milling work at the direction of someone else. Sounds fine to me, no? What am I missing Bud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domin8 Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:37 PM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:37 PM It sounds like, based on what Bud posted, a complete firearm was sold instead of selling the 80% receiver, then instructing and letting the UC finish the receiver, then sell him all the parts needed for a completed firearm, and then letting/selling the service where a gunsmith assembles all the parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
really?_ILivehere Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:40 PM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:40 PM Ares problems started with their refusal to remove a sign which has *gasp* an AR-15 on it. Apparently they told the city to stuff it, I guess this is the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
really?_ILivehere Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:47 PM Share Posted March 17, 2014 at 03:47 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KFjjLXDZ4E The ice cream truck music at the end is a nice touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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