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Culp vs Madigan - Lawsuit Filed On Behalf of Non-Residents


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#811 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 08:44 PM

The states of Missouri, Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and West Virginia have submitted an amici brief supporting Culp.

 

So, would that mean we should be living in one of those states instead of Illinoying?


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#812 press1280

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 08:25 AM

IL response due tomorrow. Let's see if they try to extend it again.



#813 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 01:17 PM

IL response due tomorrow. Let's see if they try to extend it again.

 

At what point can some sort of punitive action be taken for the obvious delaying tactic? Otherwise, they can keep asking for extensions in perpetuity, since there is no pressure or penalty for doing so.


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of free speech, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?
 
"One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest." —Me
 
"Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck. —Samurai proverb
 
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." —Robert Heinlein
 
"I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist." —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers
 
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#814 kwc

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 01:43 PM

If they wanted an extension, I think they would have had to request one 10 business days before the deadline. If I'm correct on that assumption it's too late to do so now.
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#815 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 11:24 PM

If they wanted an extension, I think they would have had to request one 10 business days before the deadline. If I'm correct on that assumption it's too late to do so now.

 

So, does that mean they are actually going to face off and take kicks in the teeth, or are they going to capitulate?


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of free speech, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?
 
"One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest." —Me
 
"Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck. —Samurai proverb
 
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." —Robert Heinlein
 
"I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist." —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers
 
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#816 bmyers

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 12:49 PM

So was a response filed?


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#817 Talonap

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 01:37 PM

Maybe they have until 2359 tonight?



#818 Gamma

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 02:52 PM

If they wanted an extension, I think they would have had to request one 10 business days before the deadline. If I'm correct on that assumption it's too late to do so now.

They'll just file "emergency" petitions etc, same way they did with the Moore case. Probably waiting to see what SCOTUS does with the NY case. I have a sinking feeling that they're going to punt NY for mootness and all the other cases that are on hold will start grinding forward again. Anything to put off a 2a decision.


Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#819 Euler

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Posted 13 January 2020 - 04:39 PM

Raoul's response
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#820 bmyers

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 08:58 AM

It seems like he puts a lot of emphasis on the fact there is no circuit split. Yet, since this is an Illinois law and Illinois is covered by one circuit (if my understanding is correct), then how would you have a circuit split? It isn't like you are going to take the case to another circuit since it is an Illinois law. AM i missing something? 


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#821 Euler

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Posted 14 January 2020 - 11:22 PM

It seems like he puts a lot of emphasis on the fact there is no circuit split. Yet, since this is an Illinois law and Illinois is covered by one circuit (if my understanding is correct), then how would you have a circuit split? It isn't like you are going to take the case to another circuit since it is an Illinois law. AM i missing something?


If the decision of CA7 in this case is different from that of similar (non-resident concealed carry) cases in any other circuit, that would be a reason for the SC to grant certiorari, so that laws across the country could be more homogenized. If there is no split, even if it's because there are no similar cases, then the SC would not grant cert.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

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#822 bmyers

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 06:01 AM

 

It seems like he puts a lot of emphasis on the fact there is no circuit split. Yet, since this is an Illinois law and Illinois is covered by one circuit (if my understanding is correct), then how would you have a circuit split? It isn't like you are going to take the case to another circuit since it is an Illinois law. AM i missing something?


If the decision of CA7 in this case is different from that of similar (non-resident concealed carry) cases in any other circuit, that would be a reason for the SC to grant certiorari, so that laws across the country could be more homogenized. If there is no split, even if it's because there are no similar cases, then the SC would not grant cert.

 

So regardless of how illegal a law is, if there is no split then SCOTUS will not grant a cert? So, if a single state passes a law saying you can keep slaves under the age of 30, but no other state does and no other circuit rules on it, then SCOTUS won't hear the case?


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#823 defaultdotxbe

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 09:48 AM

 

 

It seems like he puts a lot of emphasis on the fact there is no circuit split. Yet, since this is an Illinois law and Illinois is covered by one circuit (if my understanding is correct), then how would you have a circuit split? It isn't like you are going to take the case to another circuit since it is an Illinois law. AM i missing something?


If the decision of CA7 in this case is different from that of similar (non-resident concealed carry) cases in any other circuit, that would be a reason for the SC to grant certiorari, so that laws across the country could be more homogenized. If there is no split, even if it's because there are no similar cases, then the SC would not grant cert.

 

So regardless of how illegal a law is, if there is no split then SCOTUS will not grant a cert? So, if a single state passes a law saying you can keep slaves under the age of 30, but no other state does and no other circuit rules on it, then SCOTUS won't hear the case?

 

Its not quite that cut and dry. A lack of a split makes it so SCOTUS will usually not grant cert, although sometimes they will if the case of high profile (or the violation egregious enough, as your slave law would be if the circuit court upheld it) or sometimes to set a precedent to preemptively prevent a split from occurring

 

When there is a split they almost have to grant cert, to settle the split and create a single precedent nationwide


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#824 Euler

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 02:28 PM

So regardless of how illegal a law is, if there is no split then SCOTUS will not grant a cert? So, if a single state passes a law saying you can keep slaves under the age of 30, but no other state does and no other circuit rules on it, then SCOTUS won't hear the case?


Such a law would violate well-established legal precedent. To get to the SC, the case would have to go through the applicable appeals court first. The SC would most likely just send the case back to the appeals court without hearing it and order the appeals court to apply the appropriate law.

As always, IANAL.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

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#825 Gamma

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Posted 15 January 2020 - 07:14 PM

If the decision of CA7 in this case is different from that of similar (non-resident concealed carry) cases in any other circuit, that would be a reason for the SC to grant certiorari, so that laws across the country could be more homogenized. If there is no split, even if it's because there are no similar cases, then the SC would not grant cert.

So regardless of how illegal a law is, if there is no split then SCOTUS will not grant a cert? So, if a single state passes a law saying you can keep slaves under the age of 30, but no other state does and no other circuit rules on it, then SCOTUS won't hear the case?

Its not quite that cut and dry. A lack of a split makes it so SCOTUS will usually not grant cert, although sometimes they will if the case of high profile (or the violation egregious enough, as your slave law would be if the circuit court upheld it) or sometimes to set a precedent to preemptively prevent a split from occurring
 
When there is a split they almost have to grant cert, to settle the split and create a single precedent nationwide


AFAIK there was no circuit split or any other conflict between courts in the Caetano decision - it wasn't even a case in the Federal courts, it was an appeal from a state SC.
Illinois' FCCA is a prime example of the maxim that sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

#826 press1280

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 07:52 AM

There are few other places where a somewhat similar lawsuit could be made, like CA/N.Y. (permits not generally available to non residents), and SC (No unlicensed carry, non resident permits not available, limited reciprocity).

But let's not forget NYSRPA isn't a split either. In any case I'm counting on this to be added to the other cases pending NYSRPA

#827 press1280

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Posted 19 January 2020 - 10:23 AM

It seems like he puts a lot of emphasis on the fact there is no circuit split. Yet, since this is an Illinois law and Illinois is covered by one circuit (if my understanding is correct), then how would you have a circuit split? It isn't like you are going to take the case to another circuit since it is an Illinois law. AM i missing something?


If the decision of CA7 in this case is different from that of similar (non-resident concealed carry) cases in any other circuit, that would be a reason for the SC to grant certiorari, so that laws across the country could be more homogenized. If there is no split, even if it's because there are no similar cases, then the SC would not grant cert.
So regardless of how illegal a law is, if there is no split then SCOTUS will not grant a cert? So, if a single state passes a law saying you can keep slaves under the age of 30, but no other state does and no other circuit rules on it, then SCOTUS won't hear the case?

The odds heavily favor Scotus granting cert when there's a split. But it isn't guaranteed by any means. They've left deep splits in place for years and taken no split cases like NYSRPA. Just depends on getting the necessary 4 votes.

#828 Molly B.

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 02:31 PM

I believe the case will be in conference at SCOTUS for consideration in mid-February. 


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#829 Euler

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 03:11 PM

I believe the case will be in conference at SCOTUS for consideration in mid-February.


It's not currently scheduled, but Culp did just respond today to Raoul's opposition brief, so it probably won't be too long now.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#830 Molly B.

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 04:52 PM

Response filed today.

 

Attached File  Response to U.S. Supreme Court Culp.pdf   457.66KB   149 downloads


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#831 Molly B.

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 05:08 PM

 

I believe the case will be in conference at SCOTUS for consideration in mid-February.


It's not currently scheduled, but Culp did just respond today to Raoul's opposition brief, so it probably won't be too long now.

 

Do you have a link to the conference list?


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#832 gunuser17

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 06:56 PM

Not on the Feb. 21 Conference List as far as I could tell:  https://certpool.com...nces/2020-02-21



#833 Molly B.

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 10:20 PM

Can cases still be added to that list?


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#834 Euler

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Posted 24 January 2020 - 10:50 PM

Can cases still be added to that list?


The SC has conferences approximately weekly through June 25 for this term. There's plenty of opportunity for a case to get added to conference.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#835 gunuser17

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Posted 25 January 2020 - 11:24 AM

Usually the date a case is set for conference is based on when it was originally distributed to the Judges and their staffs.  There is no reason to think that a case would be added to an already published conference list.



#836 Charles Nichols

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 03:02 AM

Usually the date a case is set for conference is based on when it was originally distributed to the Judges and their staffs.  There is no reason to think that a case would be added to an already published conference list.

Cert petitions are not distributed to the justices until the Brief In Opposition is filed.  That took place on Jan 13 2020.  With very few exceptions (this is not one of them) the justices have two weeks to review the petition before it is scheduled for a conference.  The Brief In Opposition was filed too late to be scheduled for last Friday's conference.  CertPool is not an official government website.  CertPool compiles its lists from the SCOTUS dockets, and it does add cases to its already published conference lists.


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#837 kwc

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Posted 29 January 2020 - 11:22 AM

According to the docket:

 

Jan 29 2020 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of 2/21/2020.
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#838 press1280

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Posted 25 February 2020 - 01:38 AM

As expected, nothing happened after the conference (not denied, granted, or relisted), so this case joins the growing number of cases which will likely be remanded if NYSRPA gets decided on the merits.



#839 kwc

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 03:52 PM

As of April 27, the case has been distributed for conference of May 1, 2020.

Edited by kwc, 27 April 2020 - 03:52 PM.

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#840 Euler

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 02:28 PM

For completeness, cert petition denied.
The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.





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