Jump to content

Diggins


1957Human

Recommended Posts

By that ruling, then, no longer a question about fanny packs, correct?

 

I would be real cautious about that. "Transporting" in a vehicle and "transporting" on a person are two entirely different things.

 

On the face of it, I would agree but I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that as soon as someone gets caught doing that it will end up in court.

 

There will be screams from the antis very soon, bvery fast and very vocal.

 

Fights on.

 

So if I have wear a fanny pack with an unloaded gun inside my vehicle, what does that do?

I am no lawyer, but, I'd say that it is still being transported on your person until you take the fanny pack off in the car.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

JMO, but if you read the entire document, it reads as though the Court is strongly recommending suggesting that the IL legislature amend the wording to, "firearms case," or words to that effect.

 

 

That's the way I read it too.

 

I disagree with the court.... the guy has to go back to court and settle the matter if the center console was ajar (shut/locked) thusly being "enclosed" definded by the law.

 

I think we all know that LEO's never every lie and the jury could have found the defendant guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. :smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I interpret the Court's decision correctly, the center console doesn't have to be locked, just closed, so that the gun is "enclosed in a case". (Wasn't the state's argument that, at some point, the "case" was open"?)

 

That being "the case," seems to me that having the firearm there and a mag in your shirt pocket would be much quicker than having to open a fanny pack.

 

As Abolt stated...LTC and forget about all the other "stuff"!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I interpret the Court's decision correctly, the center console doesn't have to be locked, just closed, so that the gun is "enclosed in a case". (Wasn't the state's argument that, at some point, the "case" was open"?)

 

That being "the case," seems to me that having the firearm there and a mag in your shirt pocket would be much quicker than having to open a fanny pack.

 

After reading the courts opinion, they are calling the Cameron's court analysis incorrect. So, does this mean that not just the center console but the glove compartment is now also considered a "case" by law. Or does this ruling just affect the center console ? The Cameron portion is on page 6 of the written opinion in the Diggins case.

 

 

Budman, you said transporting in a vehicle and transporting on a person is two entirely different things. That I have to disagree with you on. Transporting your firearm has certain criteria as set forty by the ILCS. As we all know, it's unloaded, enclosed in a case and you have to be in posession of a FOID card. That criteria is for transporting in a vehicle or on your person. My question is what's entirely different ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"given the word case its plain and ordinary meaning, as we must, permits but one conclusion: the term "case" in section 24-1.6 includes any portable or nonportable reseptical and need not be intrepreted only in referance to firearms."

 

note the term ANY.

 

Guys this is big. As I said before the state was rebuffed in every arguement they made.

 

with incorporation, it becomes even bigger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I interpret the Court's decision correctly, the center console doesn't have to be locked, just closed, so that the gun is "enclosed in a case". (Wasn't the state's argument that, at some point, the "case" was open"?)

 

That being "the case," seems to me that having the firearm there and a mag in your shirt pocket would be much quicker than having to open a fanny pack.

 

As Abolt stated...LTC and forget about all the other "stuff"!

 

 

As I read it....there is some doubt as to the center console at the time as being "shut". The law says "enclosed", and if the console is a jar.....not shut completely then law was broken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I interpret the Court's decision correctly, the center console doesn't have to be locked, just closed, so that the gun is "enclosed in a case". (Wasn't the state's argument that, at some point, the "case" was open"?)

 

That being "the case," seems to me that having the firearm there and a mag in your shirt pocket would be much quicker than having to open a fanny pack.

 

As Abolt stated...LTC and forget about all the other "stuff"!

 

 

As I read it....there is some doubt as to the center console at the time as being "shut". The law says "enclosed", and if the console is a jar.....not shut completely then law was broken.

 

I just went to my truck and looked, my console is "shut" as we speak. Everything in it is completely enclosed.

 

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here it is, in the Tribune. And HA! It doesn't say anything about the guns needing to be unloaded (of course we know they do, but the average Tribune reader doesn't)

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-...0,6859495.story

 

Ill. court OKs storing guns in car consoles

 

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. - The Illinois Supreme Court says gun owners can carry weapons in the ordinary storage boxes built into their cars.

 

The question was whether a compartment for items like CDs and sunglasses also meets the legal definition of a "case" for carrying guns. Illinois law lets people carry guns in their cars so long as they are stored in a case or other container.

 

The court ruled Thursday that a car's storage box is good enough.

 

The ruling was prompted by a Peoria case in which a man had been sentenced to 2{ years in prison for carrying two pistols in his car's storage compartment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I interpret the Court's decision correctly, the center console doesn't have to be locked, just closed, so that the gun is "enclosed in a case". (Wasn't the state's argument that, at some point, the "case" was open"?)

 

That being "the case," seems to me that having the firearm there and a mag in your shirt pocket would be much quicker than having to open a fanny pack.

 

As Abolt stated...LTC and forget about all the other "stuff"!

 

 

As I read it....there is some doubt as to the center console at the time as being "shut". The law says "enclosed", and if the console is a jar.....not shut completely then law was broken.

 

I just went to my truck and looked, my console is "shut" as we speak. Everything in it is completely enclosed.

 

Tim

 

Whew thats a relief. Thought for sure that if the console hadn't been completely shut, that damn rat you have for a pet would get loose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ruling gave Diggins a second chance but the police contend the console was open and not closed, which may lead to a new trial.

 

Yes, he is not out of the woods yet, by any stretch, but unloaded carry in any case is now backed up by IL Supreme Court precedent. For his sake, I hope he gets a sympathetic jury next time around.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ruling gave Diggins a second chance but the police contend the console was open and not closed, which may lead to a new trial.

 

Yes, he is not out of the woods yet, by any stretch, but unloaded carry in any case is now backed up by IL Supreme Court precedent. For his sake, I hope he gets a sympathetic jury next time around.

 

This is an argument for video recording any encounter with the police. Heck, they do it to us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great news!

 

As for the remand to hear the case over due to the condition of the console lid:

 

 

"IF I FAIL TO ZIP UP THE CASE ENTIRELY, WILL I BE GUILTY OF A FELONY?

No, as long as the firearm is unloaded, and none of the aggravating factors of the Unlawful Use of Weapons law are present. However, to fully comply with the law, firearm cases must be completely zipped or otherwise completely fastened shut."

 

Aside from the he said / they said aspect of whether the console was opened and/or when it was opened. The State Police tri-fold informs citizens that a case may be partially open and not be a felony as long as the other factors don't apply. I know it refers to a zipper case but partially open containment is partially open containment. The report stated he had a FOID and the weapons were unloaded. But not being familiar with all the details of the original case it is difficult to know what other aggravating factors may have existed... hopefully improper use of turn signal is not one of them!

 

Lesson learned - never use your weapon as a paper weight for your wallet in the console.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would point out a couple things.

 

1. The ruling only applies to UUW. It would still be a class B misdemeanor under the wildlife act to have a gun in the console, even unloaded unless it was in a gun case as defined by the wildlife code.

 

2. Its still a class A misdemeanor to have it on public property without permission. Just don't drive through a park or a post office, or a school parking lot, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would point out a couple things.

 

1. The ruling only applies to UUW. It would still be a class B misdemeanor under the wildlife act to have a gun in the console, even unloaded unless it was in a gun case as defined by the wildlife code.

 

2. Its still a class A misdemeanor to have it on public property without permission. Just don't drive through a park or a post office, or a school parking lot, etc.

 

Streets and highways are public property.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would point out a couple things.

 

1. The ruling only applies to UUW. It would still be a class B misdemeanor under the wildlife act to have a gun in the console, even unloaded unless it was in a gun case as defined by the wildlife code.

 

2. Its still a class A misdemeanor to have it on public property without permission. Just don't drive through a park or a post office, or a school parking lot, etc.

 

Streets and highways are public property.

The law actually words it as public lands rather than property. I think that may well exclude roadways, as I think there is some case law that roads are not lands. But IANAL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bob has posted the same comment about the wildlife code here so I'll cross post my answer here.

 

1. A cop or CPO trying to enforce or write you up for a wildlife violation when not engaged in hunting or violation of the code such as poaching is on thin ice -- very thin ice.

 

2. the hidden campartment law was re-written to conform with the court ruling about illegal activitiy. I testified against the first re-write as it would criminalize keeping somehting hidden that is not illegal. So the new law goes to criminal intent.

 

As an aside, you should have seen the look on the AG's office face when they walked into us oppsoing them and that buzz saw. I love it when you catch them slack jawed.

 

3. Under the UUW statute, there is no qulifier that the case be designed for a gun. It was argued and rejected. The plain language of statute says any case. Don't try to mix up the two statutes and confuse transportation with hunting.

 

The hunting stuff is left over from another era when someone else had a hand in all this stuff. It's been over 10 years and I'm still trying to fix the mess they left us with. Maybe in another 10 I'll have it about done.

 

As for the issue of highways. Some have made the arguement about needing permission from every jurisidiction you would pass through to transport a firearm to try and comply with state law. It has never been interpretated that way. I only wish they would try somehting like that as it would create a fire storm. It would mean that I would have to get permission for at least a dozen counties plus towns when driving to my deer hunting spot. An absurd conclusion of the law. Not out of the realm of possibility with some of the narrow minded gun haters we have, but I think they know that is a bad thing to try and do.

 

But I'll try and work on a clean up bill to drop in the hopper at some point to quell the fears of some.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I just went to my truck and looked, my console is "shut" as we speak. Everything in it is completely enclosed.

 

Tim

 

Whew thats a relief. Thought for sure that if the console hadn't been completely shut, that damn rat you have for a pet would get loose.

 

 

Not a chance, too many left over peanut butter crackers and half empty vienna sausage cans in there!!!! He's in rat heaven!!

AB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I just went to my truck and looked, my console is "shut" as we speak. Everything in it is completely enclosed.

 

Tim

 

Whew thats a relief. Thought for sure that if the console hadn't been completely shut, that damn rat you have for a pet would get loose.

 

 

Not a chance, too many left over peanut butter crackers and half empty vienna sausage cans in there!!!! He's in rat heaven!!

AB

 

Oh god, this thread has definately taken a turn for the worse (perhaps worst).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...