College Student Victim of Confusing Gun Laws

[Molly B.]

https://chicagocrusader.com/black-college-student-victim-of-confusing-gun-laws/

 

By J. Coyden Palmer, Chicago Crusader

 

Gun proponents in Illinois say the case of a recent Black college student who was arrested in Chicago is the reason why there needs to be a national gun law. Jamaal Jackson was arrested last month in the Grand Crossing community after he and the mother of his child got involved in a loud verbal argument and police were called. When police entered the private residence they searched Jackson and found a gun, which he legally bought and can have in Alabama. But because he took the gun from his vehicle and into a private home earlier that day, he needs a Firearm Owners Identification Card from Illinois to remove it from the vehicle, according to Illinois law. But he is ineligible to get a FOID card because he is not an Illinois resident, which puts citizens from another state in a trick bag when they visit Illinois and want to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

 

Jackson, who was born and raised in Chicago, lives in Selma, Alabama where he is a junior business administration major at Selma University. He has been charged with a Class 4 felony of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon, something his father fears can ruin his life. Jael Alexander is the mother of Jackson’s children. She along with her mother Syllathea Alexander says they never called police to their home when the couple got into an argument. An uncle who was in the residence did. But both Alexanders tell the Crusader Jackson never threatened them in any way and they knew he had the gun.

.......

 

Aggravated Unlawful Use of a Weapon is defined as knowingly carrying on your person a weapon without a valid FOID or concealed carry permit from Illinois. But it also says a person may have a weapon in the home of another person with that person’s permission. However the gun must be kept in a case, unloaded, and disassembled or in a place that is not easily accessible. It is not sure if Jackson was aware he was breaking the law, but Illinois justices do not use negligence of the law as an excuse. He was not able to make any specific statements about the case to the Crusader because the case is still pending. However, after a hearing on his case April 19th, he said he hopes his case is tossed out and that Illinois lawmakers make several changes in the state’s gun laws to make it clearer for everyone.

 

...

 

 

[Trevis]

Can they charge him with that if the property owner knew he had it, and thereby giving him permission?

[tkroenlein]

I've been waiting to lay this card. Where do I donate.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jeffrey]

Can they charge him with that if the property owner knew he had it, and thereby giving him permission?

Permission or not from the homeowner, he still doesn't have an Illinois permission slip.

[POAT54]

 

Can they charge him with that if the property owner knew he had it, and thereby giving him permission?

Permission or not from the homeowner, he still doesn't have an Illinois permission slip.

 

So as a property owner I can not allow someone from another state to a firearm on my property? Even when he can legally own one in his home state? All those active duty military that still have their home state ID and no FOID can't have a gun in the home?

 

ETA; more questions.

How does some one shoot at Sparta? How does some one get an non-resident hunting license?

[stm]

Poorly written article. If you interchange "FCCL" for "FOID," it makes a little more sense. If he had a permit from his home state he can keep and carry a loaded firearm in his vehicle. But how did he transport it into his friend's home? Unloaded in a case? Or broken down? If it was loaded and not in a case, it is felony AUUW. Too many details missing here. THIS is why we need National Reciprocity.

[stm]

What was the lawsuit against ISP for refusing to issue a FOID to a non-resident? The Illinois AG insisted that a non-resident did not need a FOID to possess a firearm in Illinois on private property.

[stm]

What was the lawsuit against ISP for refusing to issue a FOID to a non-resident? The Illinois AG insisted that a non-resident did not need a FOID to possess a firearm in Illinois on private property.

Here it is. Mishaga v. Schmitz.

 

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?/topic/55134-Mishaga-v.-Monken#entry946929

[ChicagoRonin70]

I've been waiting to lay this card. Where do I donate.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yeah, I wondered if that would apply, considering . . .

 

Obergefell overturned Baker v. Nelson and requires all states to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples and to recognize same-sex marriages validly performed in other jurisdictions.

 

Are marriage licenses, which don't apply directly to a Constitutionally enumerated protected right, possessed of more weight and thus greater protection than a firearm license, which DOES apply directly to a Constitutionally enumerated right?

 

Equal protection under the Fourteenth Amendment would seem to apply here explicitly and specifically, wouldn't it?

[lawman]

 

 

Can they charge him with that if the property owner knew he had it, and thereby giving him permission?

Permission or not from the homeowner, he still doesn't have an Illinois permission slip.

 

So as a property owner I can not allow someone from another state to a firearm on my property? Even when he can legally own one in his home state? All those active duty military that still have their home state ID and no FOID can't have a gun in the home?

 

ETA; more questions.

How does some one shoot at Sparta? How does some one get an non-resident hunting license?

 

 

The problem with Illinois law in regard to firearms is that it is all not in one place. It is found in the criminal code, the wildlife code, the vehicle code, and the concealed carry act. You must look at all of them too figure stuff out. The wildlife code permits out of state residents to hunt with a non-resident license. Except on a range or at a gun show, a non-resident with a firearm must have it unloaded and cased, or broken down into a non-functioning state. The exception to this is that they may carry concealed and loaded within their own vehicle if they have a valid conceal carry license from their home state.

[mrmagloo]

Link doesn't work, but yes, I think it's all going to boil down to how the weapon was transported from the vehicle to the house. Hopefully, he pulled the car up on the private property, and I'd think at that point, he'd be clear. Still crappy situation all around.

[mauserme]

His attorney needs to read People v Holmes.

 

 

109130.pdf

[mic6010]

He shoulda known the law. I agree its a stupid law that this state has, and yes a national bill on the matter is needed for situations just like this. However that's not the issue here. Ignorance of the law is no defense. Its not like he was in Kansas, he was in the heart of the liberal darkness. And he grew up here. He should have known better. No sympathy at all. You better darn well bet your butt that I'm gonna know the carry laws of the state I'm traveling too before I go there. If I can be that thorough then anyone can.

[lockman]

If he at no time carried it loaded outside of his car, unless on property he has permission, or cased and unloaded, there was no crime.

[tkroenlein]

I've been waiting to lay this card. Where do I donate.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Yeah, I wondered if that would apply, considering . . .

 

Obergefell overturned Baker v. Nelson and requires all states to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples and to recognize same-sex marriages validly performed in other jurisdictions.

 

Are marriage licenses, which don't apply directly to a Constitutionally enumerated protected right, possessed of more weight and thus greater protection than a firearm license, which DOES apply directly to a Constitutionally enumerated right?

 

Equal protection under the Fourteenth Amendment would seem to apply here explicitly and specifically, wouldn't it?

Yessir, I believe it would.

[Molly B.]

His attorney needs to read People v Holmes.

 

 

109130.pdf

 

Sending to him.

[Molly B.]

 

What was the lawsuit against ISP for refusing to issue a FOID to a non-resident? The Illinois AG insisted that a non-resident did not need a FOID to possess a firearm in Illinois on private property.

Here it is. Mishaga v. Schmitz.

 

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?/topic/55134-Mishaga-v.-Monken&do=findComment&comment=946929

 

 

 

Thank you sending this to him.

[kevinmcc]

Wow, this is so stupid... Makes Illinois law makers and law enforcement look so dumb...

[kwc]

He shoulda known the law. I agree its a stupid law that this state has, and yes a national bill on the matter is needed for situations just like this. However that's not the issue here. Ignorance of the law is no defense. Its not like he was in Kansas, he was in the heart of the liberal darkness. And he grew up here. He should have known better. No sympathy at all. You better darn well bet your butt that I'm gonna know the carry laws of the state I'm traveling too before I go there. If I can be that thorough then anyone can.

Again, as long as he transported it into the home correctly, he was firmly on legal ground. The homeowner knew he had the handgun and allowed him to carry and possess it within the home. He is on solid legal footing. If he isn't, then I know a LOT of nonresidents without FOID cards who are "breaking the law."

 

“He’s come to my house before with the gun because he keeps it for protection. The only thing I ever ask him is to keep it somewhere safe so the kids don’t get a hold of it,” said Syllathea.

 

[BobPistol]

A black kid gets arrested for a case that shows Illinois does not recognize full human rights.

 

Where is Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? Oh. The race baiters are notoriously absent here.....

 

Gee, I wonder why.

 

More proof that gun control laws are racism being enforced.

 

The NRA and 2AF need to get involved stat.

[Bitter Clinger]

Again, as long as he transported it into the home correctly, he was firmly on legal ground. The homeowner knew he had the handgun and allowed him to carry and possess it within the home. He is on solid legal footing. If he isn't, then I know a LOT of nonresidents without FOID cards who are "breaking the law."

I have a lot of friends and family who visit from out of state and they bring their guns so we can go shooting together. None of them have FOID cards and since they aren't IL residents, they can't get a FOID card. Are they "breaking the law" every time they drive into IL with a gun in their car (despite the fact that it's unloaded and in a case)?

 

Of course, the FOID law is 100% unconstitutional anyway, but that's a topic for another day.

[Hazborgufen]

He shoulda known the law. I agree its a stupid law that this state has, and yes a national bill on the matter is needed for situations just like this. However that's not the issue here. Ignorance of the law is no defense. Its not like he was in Kansas, he was in the heart of the liberal darkness. And he grew up here. He should have known better. No sympathy at all. You better darn well bet your butt that I'm gonna know the carry laws of the state I'm traveling too before I go there. If I can be that thorough then anyone can.

This is an extremely myopic view. Illinois law is very vague, confusing, and somewhat contradictory. This person did not have any evil intent and yet he's facing felony charges. That is a gross injustice and should not be happening. Just because it's the law doesn't make it right. He wasn't doing anything that would even remotely be considered wrong in most of the country, nor in most of Illinois for that matter.

 

Being so unsympathetic is a disgrace for anyone who considers themselves to be a 2nd Amendment supporter.

[mic6010]

 

He shoulda known the law. I agree its a stupid law that this state has, and yes a national bill on the matter is needed for situations just like this. However that's not the issue here. Ignorance of the law is no defense. Its not like he was in Kansas, he was in the heart of the liberal darkness. And he grew up here. He should have known better. No sympathy at all. You better darn well bet your butt that I'm gonna know the carry laws of the state I'm traveling too before I go there. If I can be that thorough then anyone can.

This is an extremely myopic view. Illinois law is very vague, confusing, and somewhat contradictory. This person did not have any evil intent and yet he's facing felony charges. That is a gross injustice and should not be happening. Just because it's the law doesn't make it right. He wasn't doing anything that would even remotely be considered wrong in most of the country, nor in most of Illinois for that matter.

 

Being so unsympathetic is a disgrace for anyone who considers themselves to be a 2nd Amendment supporter.

 

Why should his plight matter to me so much ? Is this case gonna do anything for me as an IL resident ? Do I have to worry about Illinois FOID card regulations outside of IL ? Or the best question Do I even know anything about him as a person aside from the details of the case ? You must just have an easier sympathy trigger than mine.

There's a lot of laws both state and federal I don't agree with, that doesn't mean I don't suffer the consequences of my actions if I break those laws.

You need an FOID card to posses a gun in the state of IL. That's the law. He knew that law, he broke that law. That's the way the police interpreted that law.

Now he has to face the consequences of his actions and see if that interpretation of the law stands up. I fail to really see how this is some heartbreaking case that requires my sympathy.

I will give you this at least, he has my best wishes. Hope he gets off and changes the world for non IL residents who want to come to IL and carry a gun on them.

[Hazborgufen]

 

 

He shoulda known the law. I agree its a stupid law that this state has, and yes a national bill on the matter is needed for situations just like this. However that's not the issue here. Ignorance of the law is no defense. Its not like he was in Kansas, he was in the heart of the liberal darkness. And he grew up here. He should have known better. No sympathy at all. You better darn well bet your butt that I'm gonna know the carry laws of the state I'm traveling too before I go there. If I can be that thorough then anyone can.

This is an extremely myopic view. Illinois law is very vague, confusing, and somewhat contradictory. This person did not have any evil intent and yet he's facing felony charges. That is a gross injustice and should not be happening. Just because it's the law doesn't make it right. He wasn't doing anything that would even remotely be considered wrong in most of the country, nor in most of Illinois for that matter.

 

Being so unsympathetic is a disgrace for anyone who considers themselves to be a 2nd Amendment supporter.

 

Why should his plight matter to me so much ? Is this case gonna do anything for me as an IL resident ? Do I have to worry about Illinois FOID card regulations outside of IL ? Or the best question Do I even know anything about him as a person aside from the details of the case ? You must just have an easier sympathy trigger than mine.

There's a lot of laws both state and federal I don't agree with, that doesn't mean I don't suffer the consequences of my actions if I break those laws.

You need an FOID card to posses a gun in the state of IL. That's the law. He knew that law, he broke that law. That's the way the police interpreted that law.

Now he has to face the consequences of his actions and see if that interpretation of the law stands up. I fail to really see how this is some heartbreaking case that requires my sympathy.

I will give you this at least, he has my best wishes. Hope he gets off and changes the world for non IL residents who want to come to IL and carry a gun on them.

 

 

Non-residents can't get FOID cards as mentioned before, so by your logic the guy couldn't be legal even if he wanted to be. The article even points out the vagueness and contradiction in the laws. But that's not the point. Licensing civil rights is wrong, which is why the FOID is garbage. It can trap people with no evil intent like this guy. That is injustice. Not everyone who owns a gun is going to have time to read countless forums and study the legalese of every obscure statute from every state. Nor should they have to. It's a civil right after all (I hope you agree).

 

Any law that imposes a felony penalty for some simple technical violation is inherently unjust. I hope you never pick up an eagle feather off the ground or any number of other felony triggering violations which you might not know about. There is research saying that people violate untold numbers obscure laws every day. Making felons out of people who are not trying to victimize anyone is a real problem. It creates a huge class of people who no longer can find work or housing and and is a leading driver pushing people to turn to crime. It also affects minorities in staggeringly large numbers.

 

I'm not a big Ayn Rand fan, but she did make a good point. "The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."

 

Overcriminalization is a tool of authoritarians. We shouldn't support it simply because it's the law. Nobody was a victim in this case. What's the point of being a member of a gun right's organization if you aren't going to support people's gun rights?

[junglebob]

mic6010, This is B.S. show me in the law where it says that a non-resident must have a FOID to possess a gun in Illinois. If that is

so there are thousands of people, 4500 in 2015, every year coming to Illinois and breaking the law when they bring their guns to participate in

the Grand American trapshooting event at the World Shooting Complex in Sparta. Don't they know the law. Why aren't LEOs making mass arrests

there? If you get jammed up in some other state because of some technicality in the law there, or because a LEO doesn't know the law

don't come here and post about it and expect any sympathy, not from me anyway.

[kwc]

You need an FOID card to posses a gun in the state of IL. That's the law. He knew that law, he broke that law.

 

Wrong!!! Non-residents don't need a FOID card, and the law allows them to possess a firearm here. Have you personally read the FOID Act? And the UUW/AUUW statutes?

 

Assuming the circumstances and the facts are presented correctly, it is clear to me that the police made a mistake. I hope this injustice is corrected.

[TriumphRider]

I am truly surprised nobody has posted this from the ILL State police website ....

 

 

1. Overview of the Firearm Owner's Identification Card

What is a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) Card?

Who needs a FOID Card?

Unless specifically exempted by statute, any Illinois resident who acquires or possesses firearms, firearm ammunition, tasers or stun guns within the State must have in their possession a valid FOID card issued in his or her name. Non-residents are not required to have a FOID card.

Are there exemptions to the requirement of a FOID Card?

Yes, The FOID Act, 430 ILCS 65/2( outlines the following exemptions.

• United States Marshals, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.
• Members of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.
• Federal officials required to carry firearms, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.
• Members of bona fide veteran's organizations which receive firearms directly from the armed forces of the United States, while using the firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition.
• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted.
• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case.
• Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range recognized by the Department of State Police.
• Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or display recognized by the Department of State Police.
• Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case.
• Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state.
• Un-emancipated minors while in the custody and immediate control of their parent or legal guardian and the parent or legal guardian currently has a valid FOID card.
• Color guards of bona fide veteran's organizations or members of bona fide American Legion bands while using firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition.
• Nonresident hunters whose state of residence does not require them to be licensed or registered to possess a firearm and only during hunting season. The nonresident must have a valid hunting license and be accompanied by and be using a firearm owned by, a person who possesses a valid FOID card. This is allowed only while in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled, but in no instance upon sites owned or managed by the Department of Natural Resources.
• Resident hunters who are properly authorized to hunt and, while accompanied by a person who possesses a valid FOID card, hunt in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled.
• A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a FOID card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a FOID card holder who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization.
• Competitive shooting athletes whose competition firearms are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee, the International Paralympic Committee, the International Shooting Sport Federation, or USA Shooting. The use must be in connection with such athletes' training for and participation in shooting competitions at the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games and sanctioned test events leading up to the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games.
• Law enforcement officials of this or any other jurisdiction, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.

[Hazborgufen]

 

I am truly surprised nobody has posted this from the ILL State police website ....

 

 

1. Overview of the Firearm Owner's Identification Card

What is a Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) Card?

Who needs a FOID Card?

Unless specifically exempted by statute, any Illinois resident who acquires or possesses firearms, firearm ammunition, tasers or stun guns within the State must have in their possession a valid FOID card issued in his or her name. Non-residents are not required to have a FOID card.

Are there exemptions to the requirement of a FOID Card?

Yes, The FOID Act, 430 ILCS 65/2( outlines the following exemptions.

• United States Marshals, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.
• Members of the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.
• Federal officials required to carry firearms, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.
• Members of bona fide veteran's organizations which receive firearms directly from the armed forces of the United States, while using the firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition.
• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted.
• Nonresident hunters during hunting season, with valid nonresident hunting licenses and while in an area where hunting is permitted; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case.
• Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range recognized by the Department of State Police.
• Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or display recognized by the Department of State Police.
• Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case.
• Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state.
• Un-emancipated minors while in the custody and immediate control of their parent or legal guardian and the parent or legal guardian currently has a valid FOID card.
• Color guards of bona fide veteran's organizations or members of bona fide American Legion bands while using firearms for ceremonial purposes with blank ammunition.
• Nonresident hunters whose state of residence does not require them to be licensed or registered to possess a firearm and only during hunting season. The nonresident must have a valid hunting license and be accompanied by and be using a firearm owned by, a person who possesses a valid FOID card. This is allowed only while in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled, but in no instance upon sites owned or managed by the Department of Natural Resources.
• Resident hunters who are properly authorized to hunt and, while accompanied by a person who possesses a valid FOID card, hunt in an area within a commercial club licensed under the Wildlife Code where hunting is permitted and controlled.
• A person who is otherwise eligible to obtain a FOID card under this Act and is under the direct supervision of a FOID card holder who is 21 years of age or older while the person is on a firing or shooting range or is a participant in a firearms safety and training course recognized by a law enforcement agency or a national, statewide shooting sports organization.
• Competitive shooting athletes whose competition firearms are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee, the International Paralympic Committee, the International Shooting Sport Federation, or USA Shooting. The use must be in connection with such athletes' training for and participation in shooting competitions at the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games and sanctioned test events leading up to the 2016 Olympic and Paralympic Games.
• Law enforcement officials of this or any other jurisdiction, while engaged in the operation of their official duties.

 

 

Agreed with what you are saying. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that part of the controversy is that he had it loaded on his person. Which, again unless I'm mistaken, is ok as long as he stays on private property and had the property owner's permission. I think they are trying to ding him for carrying the pistol from his car to the house, claiming that he was committing UUW in the distance from the car to the property line.

 

It's amazing how hard they'll throw the book at someone without any evil intent, but repeat criminal gang members or illegal gun traffickers like the recent story about the Mount Prospect woman result in slaps on the wrist. These felony laws should take into account intent so that honest and innocent people aren't caught up in them.

 

My sincere hope is that either he parked on the property's driveway or, if he parked away from the property, that he de-gunned before getting to the property. That way he was never in the wrong and he can sue the pants off of the city for violating his civil rights. If he didn't do one of those two things (and heck, even if he did), my biggest hope though is that he did not talk to the police, he immediately demanded a lawyer, and didn't incriminate himself. Police are not your friends if they are investigating you for any reason you should never talk to them. Treat them like a swarm of bees, useful if doing their jobs properly but a danger to you if they decide to take notice of you personally. I hope he didn't inadvertently talk his way into making their case for them.

[tseeker]

I think the bottom line is that with no immediate evidence of domestic violence, they simply found a reason to arrest and charge him. Probably in the hopes that more potential domestic charges would be pressed upon his removal from the residence...

 

Doesn't make it right but law enforcement is always arresting people for trumped up BS, while attempting to gather whatever potential evidence they need to make more legitimate charges stick

 

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

 

[SycamoreRuger]

His next court appearance is tomorrow (Monday April 24) at 9 a.m. I hope some of our Chicago members can show up to give him moral support.