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Gustafson v. Springfield Armory


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#1 C0untZer0

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 07:47 AM

Pennsylvania court rules PLCAA unconstitutional 

 

Decision PDF


“Most gun control arguments miss the point. If all control boils fundamentally to force, how can one resist aggression without equal force? How can a truly “free” state exist if the individual citizen is enslaved to the forceful will of individual or organized aggressors?
 
 It cannot.” 

 

― Tiffany Madison― 


#2 Mr. Fife

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 09:17 AM

“was unloaded, because . . . there were no adequate
indicators or warnings to inform him that a live round remained in the
chamber.”


The XD9 has a loaded chamber indicator.
Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
 
 

#3 C0untZer0

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 09:48 AM

Next stop: United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit.

 

There are eight active republican appointees including 4 recent judges appointed by Donald Trump.  There are six active judges appointed by democrats on the Third Circuit Court of Appeals.  Chief Judge D. Brooks Smith was appointed by G.W. Bush.


“Most gun control arguments miss the point. If all control boils fundamentally to force, how can one resist aggression without equal force? How can a truly “free” state exist if the individual citizen is enslaved to the forceful will of individual or organized aggressors?
 
 It cannot.” 

 

― Tiffany Madison― 


#4 MagSlap

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 10:01 AM

Next case on this court's docket:

 

Citizen VS Ford

Synopsis:

Complainant sues Ford for all damages, court costs and punitive damages cause by his vehicle running a red light causing a 3 car wreck and 2 deaths.

Complaining party claims Ford's product did not adequately warn him of an upcoming red light as he pointed  and accelerated the vehicle thru the intersection.

 

Presiding judge when interviewed prior to trail stated : Herrpp..Derrrrp....Derpity Derp.



#5 mrmagloo

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 10:02 AM

While I think this decision is chilling, and I certainly don't agree, I think the word at play is is 'adequate'. While incorrect, their thinking clearly was, would the average person of all ages and all experience levels with firearms, including none, be able to recognize the indicator and know what it means.  I was always taught that you never point a weapon, loaded or not, at anything you do not want to kill, ever. That should be the only benchmark.

 

Kind of like the logic with most criminal laws regarding ignorance of the law.  You are not automatically innocent or not responsible for your actions because you don't understand how to properly use the item.  I guess my thought is, if it was a nail gun that rocked through the friend skull, would Dewalt be responsible?  What happened to personal responsibility for stupidity?  Hopefully the 3rd resolves this miscarriage.



#6 Quiet Observer

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 10:36 AM

 

“was unloaded, because . . . there were no adequate
indicators or warnings to inform him that a live round remained in the
chamber.”


The XD9 has a loaded chamber indicator.

 

 

I think that they would say that the operative word is "adequate". 

 

That being said, I do not think that indicators are all that useful. 

They are not always obvious. Many gun owners are probably not aware of their presence. 

We handle guns responsibly. The loaded chamber indicators are redundant. 

 

The boy (shooter) and his parents are the ones responsible. 

If they did not teach him gun safety, and/or could trust him to follow the rules, the gun should have been locked up. 



#7 mrmagloo

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Posted 08 October 2020 - 03:35 PM

 

 

“was unloaded, because . . . there were no adequate
indicators or warnings to inform him that a live round remained in the
chamber.”


The XD9 has a loaded chamber indicator.

 

 

I think that they would say that the operative word is "adequate". 

 

That being said, I do not think that indicators are all that useful. 

They are not always obvious. Many gun owners are probably not aware of their presence. 

We handle guns responsibly. The loaded chamber indicators are redundant. 

 

The boy (shooter) and his parents are the ones responsible. 

If they did not teach him gun safety, and/or could trust him to follow the rules, the gun should have been locked up. 

 

 

I cannot disagree with you more regarding the second paragraph.



#8 C0untZer0

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Posted 09 October 2020 - 10:13 PM

There are 2 main arguments:

 

1) That the PLCAA doesn't apply to this particular lawsuit

 

2)  That the PLCAA is unconstitutional, because it (1) overrides Tenth Amendment principles of federalism, (2) cannot be sustained under the Commerce Clause,5 and (3) violates the Fifth Amendment.

 

The idea that somehow the type and number of safeties on a gun were not "adequate" is a moot point.  The Superior Court of Pennsylvania does not have the authority to rule on whether the safeties were "adequate."  These judges are clearly attempting to legislate from the bench, attempting to gut the PLCAA.

 

 


Edited by C0untZer0, 09 October 2020 - 10:20 PM.

“Most gun control arguments miss the point. If all control boils fundamentally to force, how can one resist aggression without equal force? How can a truly “free” state exist if the individual citizen is enslaved to the forceful will of individual or organized aggressors?
 
 It cannot.” 

 

― Tiffany Madison― 


#9 chislinger

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Posted 11 October 2020 - 09:17 AM

It will be moot if Democrats win because they vow to repeal the PLCAA. If that happens no gun manufacturer that sells to the public will be able to stay in business. Government sales only.


"I'm not worried about following the U.S. Constitution." - Washington County, Alabama Judge Nick Williams




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