technical Posted October 15, 2014 at 10:37 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 10:37 PM I'm looking to mount a holster in my truck and I'm curious as to if it needs to be concealed within the vehicle or if the vehicle is considered concealment. For example, if I mount a holster to my center console and it's visible from the window (i.e. officer) does that still fall under concealment? Another example, the Gum Creek undermount holsters, they have two options, a standard and a concealed. The standard allows access to the gun quickly, the concealed hides the gun. Is the standard one allowed per Illinois concealment? Original Concealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted October 15, 2014 at 10:53 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 10:53 PM "Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handguncarried on or about a person completely or mostly concealedfrom view of the public or on or about a person within avehicle. Note that carry within a vehicle need not be concealed. Everyone has the right to interpret as they will, but the official stance of IllinoisCarry is that we do not support or encourage licensees to open carry in a vehicle under current law. Valinda RoweIllinoisCarry.com spokesperson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimGiblin Posted October 15, 2014 at 10:54 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 10:54 PM Consider on the right side of the drivers seat if you don't leave it when you leave the vehicle I think legal. But definitely undefined enough to go to court. I'd pass. Safety is a momentary choice. Prior performance and certification are completely irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Percussion Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:01 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:01 PM I certainly could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the gun must not be visible to people passing by the vehicle? If the holster is on the side of the seat and someone walking by can see it, then it's not concealed... no? Stay Safe and Carry Responsibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Percussion Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:05 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:05 PM "Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handguncarried on or about a person completely or mostly concealedfrom view of the public or on or about a person within avehicle. Note that carry within a vehicle need not be concealed. I thought the intent of that part of the law, was to give leeway for printing or wind blowing your shirt open, or your shirt riding up and momentarily exposing your sidearm when reaching for something, not so you could purposely leave a gun partially unconcealed in your vehicle. As with most things I write here, I could be wrong... Stay Safe and Carry Responsibly Edited for clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technical Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:08 PM Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:08 PM I certainly could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the gun must not be visible to people passing by the vehicle? If the holster is on the side of the seat and someone walking by can see it, then it's not concealed... no? Stay Safe and Carry Responsibly I know it wouldn't fly if you weren't in the car with it, but my question is if I'm in the car. Another example I'm looking at it from a stand point of transfering from my belt to the holster while driving. Not as a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Percussion Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:12 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:12 PM I certainly could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the gun must not be visible to people passing by the vehicle? If the holster is on the side of the seat and someone walking by can see it, then it's not concealed... no? Stay Safe and Carry Responsibly I know it wouldn't fly if you weren't in the car with it, but my question is if I'm in the car. Another exampleindex.jpg I'm looking at it from a stand point of transfering from my belt to the holster while driving. Not as a case. When I drop my Grandson off at school, I always wait to make sure no one can see me before I transfer to the locking glovebox. To be honest, I just don't need some hysterical person calling the cops about the "man with a gun at the school". So, even if the law said "Yeah sure, go ahead..." I still wouldn't do anything that would expose my sidearm to passersby... I just wait till its all clear. Stay Safe and Carry Responsibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Percussion Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:14 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:14 PM I certainly could be wrong, but it was my understanding that the gun must not be visible to people passing by the vehicle? If the holster is on the side of the seat and someone walking by can see it, then it's not concealed... no? Stay Safe and Carry Responsibly I know it wouldn't fly if you weren't in the car with it, but my question is if I'm in the car. Another exampleindex.jpg I'm looking at it from a stand point of transfering from my belt to the holster while driving. Not as a case. As I read it again, I don't think its legal to have the gun in that holster (the way its pictured) even if you are in the car. It's not concealed. If you were at a light and someone saw it, I think you are in trouble. Any instructors out there to weigh in? Stay Safe and Carry Responsibly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmphOne Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:17 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:17 PM Just my two-cents. I also found a desire/need to mount a holster in my vehicle as well.Right next to my lower right leg. Completely out of sight when in the vehicle as my leg blocks the line of sight. Rather than purchasing a car mount kit, I got crafty with an older OWB holder... cut up an old belt and drilled it into the front of the console. For me, it works as expected. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadyRunner Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:29 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:29 PM This one has been around before. Consensus is..... It depends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:53 PM Share Posted October 15, 2014 at 11:53 PM As I read it again, I don't think its legal to have the gun in that holster (the way its pictured) even if you are in the car. It's not concealed. If you were at a light and someone saw it, I think you are in trouble. Why does it have to be concealed in the car? Read my quote from the law again. A concealed firearm is: A ) carried on or about your person concealed or mostly concealed -- OR -- B ) on or about your person in a vehicle. There is no "concealed or mostly concealed" in the second part -- in a vehicle. If it's in the holster, visible, it is on or about your person in a vehicle. Therefore it is a concealed weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:10 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:10 AM You are missing the connection between the first part of the statute and the second part: A Concealed firearm is . . . it must be concealed whether on you or in your vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishjames Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:11 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:11 AM As I read it again, I don't think its legal to have the gun in that holster (the way its pictured) even if you are in the car. It's not concealed. If you were at a light and someone saw it, I think you are in trouble. Why does it have to be concealed in the car? Read my quote from the law again. A concealed firearm is: A ) carried on or about your person concealed or mostly concealed -- OR -- B ) on or about your person in a vehicle. There is no "concealed or mostly concealed" in the second part -- in a vehicle. If it's in the holster, visible, it is on or about your person in a vehicle. Therefore it is a concealed weapon.But is it wise to have a gun in your car, visible to others outside? I cannot think of an instance when it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:11 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:11 AM "Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handguncarried on or about a person completely or mostly concealedfrom view of the public or on or about a person within avehicle. Note that carry within a vehicle need not be concealed. Yes, it must be concealed in the vehicle also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warped Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:24 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:24 AM My take is on or about your person is the key part on the passenger front seat under a newspaper ???? laying under the drivers seat on the floor ??? in a holster bolted to any part of the car ???? these 3 examples to me are not on or about a person just my opinion that and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks maybe ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VannDaddy Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:36 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:36 AM "Concealed firearm" means a loaded or unloaded handguncarried on or about a person completely or mostly concealedfrom view of the public or on or about a person within avehicle. Note that carry within a vehicle need not be concealed. Yes, it must be concealed in the vehicle also.How does one remove a handgun from a concealed holster on their person, unload it, and place it in a safe storage area with in the vehicle all while the handgun is concealed? Does on cover it with piece of fabric and perform the unloading by feel? Should one cover themselves with a large piece of fabric (I'm thinking like the old cheesy ghost costumes) and perform the unloading? At some point during this unfortunately inevitable process the handgun WILL be visible. To what extent by those outside of the vehicle is, in my opinion, the determining factor. And what happened to the wording of "mostly concealed"? I realize that an IWB holster with a shirt tucked in is not compliant, but if the handgun is in a holster in the vehicle and is unable to be seen by those outside of the vehicle, why would that not be ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:52 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 12:52 AM How does one remove a handgun from a concealed holster on their person, unload it, and place it in a safe storage area with in the vehicle all while the handgun is concealed? Does on cover it with piece of fabric and perform the unloading by feel? Should one cover themselves with a large piece of fabric (I'm thinking like the old cheesy ghost costumes) and perform the unloading? At some point during this unfortunately inevitable process the handgun WILL be visible. To what extent by those outside of the vehicle is, in my opinion, the determining factor. And what happened to the wording of "mostly concealed"? I realize that an IWB holster with a shirt tucked in is not compliant, but if the handgun is in a holster in the vehicle and is unable to be seen by those outside of the vehicle, why would that not be ok? I realize some of your post is in jest. We would expect reasonable care should be taken when transitioning to stored in the vehicle that this would be done while trying not to be seen by the public. I know of some IWB holsters with shirt tucked in is quite compliant. In a holster in a vehicle and unable to be seen by the public, that would be considered concealed, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockman Posted October 16, 2014 at 01:03 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 01:03 AM My take is on or about your person is the key parton the passenger front seat under a newspaper ????laying under the drivers seat on the floor ???in a holster bolted to any part of the car ????these 3 examples to me are not on or about a personjust my opinion that and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks maybe ! Those examples are most certainly considered on or about your person. Those very types of examples have in the past been used to get you arrested for having a loaded firearm on or about your person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firepiper Posted October 16, 2014 at 01:24 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 01:24 AM As I read it again, I don't think its legal to have the gun in that holster (the way its pictured) even if you are in the car. It's not concealed. If you were at a light and someone saw it, I think you are in trouble. Why does it have to be concealed in the car? Read my quote from the law again. A concealed firearm is: A ) carried on or about your person concealed or mostly concealed -- OR -- B ) on or about your person in a vehicle. There is no "concealed or mostly concealed" in the second part -- in a vehicle. If it's in the holster, visible, it is on or about your person in a vehicle. Therefore it is a concealed weapon. This VERY point has been addressed in multiple threads by multiple members here.... TPTB (Most notably Molly, but others in the administration of this board) have shared that it it their view that it must be concealed further while within a vehicle..... I am of the opinion that these are just that.....opinions.......and until the wording of the law changes to specify concealment while in a vehicle or a ruling from the courts they will remain just that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbeard Posted October 16, 2014 at 01:50 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 01:50 AM If it has to be concealed in a vehicle, then why did they write it that way? Why not just "on or about your person concealed or mostly concealed from public view"? Wouldn't that also cover "in a vehicle"? What does the "or on or about one's person in a vehicle" add to the definition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted October 16, 2014 at 02:17 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 02:17 AM If it has to be concealed in a vehicle, then why did they write it that way? Why not just "on or about your person concealed or mostly concealed from public view"? Wouldn't that also cover "in a vehicle"? What does the "or on or about one's person in a vehicle" add to the definition? This is a "concealed" carry law about "concealed" carry. You cannot separate clause B from the preceding parts. It's complicated just like having to combine state, federal, and conservation statutes all together or looking at the preemption clauses and combining them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly B. Posted October 16, 2014 at 02:23 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 02:23 AM This VERY point has been addressed in multiple threads by multiple members here.... TPTB (Most notably Molly, but others in the administration of this board) have shared that it it their view that it must be concealed further while within a vehicle..... I am of the opinion that these are just that.....opinions.......and until the wording of the law changes to specify concealment while in a vehicle or a ruling from the courts they will remain just that Actually it's a bit more than opinion, in that we warn against posting information that could put a member or reader at legal risk for prosecution. This is one of those things because it does specify concealment while in a vehicle. You are choosing not to read it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tchostler Posted October 16, 2014 at 03:00 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 03:00 AM Can't imagine the reaction of a LEO looking in your window and seeing a handgun laying on the seat or in a holster stuffed anywhere. I'm not man enough to try something like that in my senior years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedoc Posted October 16, 2014 at 03:43 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 03:43 AM I do it all the time. I drive my wife to work frequently. I usually put my pocket pistol (in its holster) in the cup holder in the center console or on the dog house when I drive the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmphOne Posted October 16, 2014 at 04:18 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 04:18 AM Strap that thing down, man. Nobody ever plans for an accident; hence the name 'accident', in a vehicle. Something that could send your weapon flying about the car, out the window, etc.... Even worse if you have a chambered round and a collision could possibly catalyze a discharge. To each their own, but I like to omit as many possibilities of error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorvinion Posted October 16, 2014 at 05:02 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 05:02 AM A concern I would have about mounting a holster that could be visibly seen by anyone walking by is that its an invitation for a smash and grab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firepiper Posted October 16, 2014 at 05:41 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 05:41 AM This VERY point has been addressed in multiple threads by multiple members here.... TPTB (Most notably Molly, but others in the administration of this board) have shared that it it their view that it must be concealed further while within a vehicle..... I am of the opinion that these are just that.....opinions.......and until the wording of the law changes to specify concealment while in a vehicle or a ruling from the courts they will remain just that Actually it's a bit more than opinion, in that we warn against posting information that could put a member or reader at legal risk for prosecution. This is one of those things because it does specify concealment while in a vehicle. You are choosing not to read it that way. That being said, are there efforts on the part of IC/ISRA to make changes to this portion of the law to clarify this (one of many) cloudy areas of the FCCA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixxermaniak Posted October 16, 2014 at 08:57 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 08:57 AM Sorry to sidetrack. But does anyone know what the conclusion was with the gentleman carrying the AR pistol in his car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymond963 Posted October 16, 2014 at 09:48 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 09:48 AM I've always thought that the "or on or about a person in a vehicle" provides for the possibility of exposing your firearm when you have to disarm within a vehicle, prior to exiting to go into a prohibited area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted October 16, 2014 at 09:59 AM Share Posted October 16, 2014 at 09:59 AM Sorry to sidetrack. But does anyone know what the conclusion was with the gentleman carrying the AR pistol in his car? Charges were dropped. http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50892&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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