cybermgk Posted February 26, 2018 at 04:09 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 04:09 PM Produce some commercials/videos/etc. for Television and social Media presenting the real statistics and facts of gun ownership, what makes up the bulk of gun deaths, crimes (suicide and gang violence), how many crimes are thwarted by law abiding carrying citizens etc. Granted, their primary effort should be focused on our politicians. But, I am tired of the uninformed masses hearing just one, biased, statistic abusing/misusing/lieing message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted February 26, 2018 at 04:11 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 04:11 PM They should and I believe they have. The problem is their choice of venues. Running an ad like that during a conservative talk show is no different than running an ad here. They need to focus it during the 5:00 news on MSM. The next problem is convincing the MSM to allow it on their channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted February 26, 2018 at 04:14 PM Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 04:14 PM They should and I believe they have. The problem is their choice of venues. Running an ad like that during a conservative talk show is no different than running an ad here. They need to focus it during the 5:00 news on MSM. The next problem is convincing the MSM to allow it on their channel.Yes, that's what I meant, running them on other than Fox News shows. MSM News shows, non news shows, etc. Dana mentioned she will be doing a new series on NRA TV. But, as you say, that is preaching to the choir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plinkermostly Posted February 26, 2018 at 04:33 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 04:33 PM "They" ignore logic. You can ad 'til . . . and 'they' are not having any of it. Good luck with that. GFZs make no sense, but they believe in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc905 Posted February 26, 2018 at 05:23 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 05:23 PM Back in the 90's during the Serbian ethnic cleansing, I always thought the NRA should run an ad featuring images of the refugee camps and mass graves with the tagline of "A solemn reminder of why our 2nd Amendment exists..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Percussion Posted February 26, 2018 at 05:50 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 05:50 PM They should and I believe they have. The problem is their choice of venues. Running an ad like that during a conservative talk show is no different than running an ad here. They need to focus it during the 5:00 news on MSM. The next problem is convincing the MSM to allow it on their channel.I wrote this a couple of years ago. I don't think it could be done now, with the latest climate change. But I believe they need to start looking into advertising like this. Here is the link...Time to Lead the Gun Rights Fight From the Front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottFM Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:11 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:11 PM Produce some commercials/videos/etc. for Television and social Media presenting the real statistics and facts of gun ownership, what makes up the bulk of gun deaths, crimes (suicide and gang violence), how many crimes are thwarted by law abiding carrying citizens etc. Granted, their primary effort should be focused on our politicians. But, I am tired of the uninformed masses hearing just one, biased, statistic abusing/misusing/lieing message. Running a stat war? You'll lose. Far more stats that can be used to support the gun control side. In the end, it will accomplish nothing but throwing forth data and those that are predisposed to believe one set of data will believe that while ignoring the other side. In the 1950 and 60's people were killing themselves with the new hobby of scuba diving. Their homemade gear, non-standard training and lack of really understanding the issue was starting to lead to government intervention. The LA County Sheriff actually became a scuba certifying agency for California divers. This is when the industry stepped up and created training standards. The new agencies NAUI and YMCA did the training and set the standards to avoid government take over. In the UK the government did take over and for the next few decades, it was a ROYAL PITA to get certified. The GOA and NRA need to do follow this model IMHO. They should be setting minimum training requirements and standardized classes. Heck the NRA USED TO DO JUST THIS! They could get on this and end up making a lot of money training people and instructors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:23 PM Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:23 PM "They" ignore logic. You can ad 'til . . . and 'they' are not having any of it. Good luck with that. GFZs make no sense, but they believe in them.Yea, hard anti gunners do. But there are a LOT of folks, imho, in the middle, maybe a little antigun, or a little pro 2A and a LOT uninformed. It's these folks it would aim at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:25 PM Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:25 PM They should and I believe they have. The problem is their choice of venues. Running an ad like that during a conservative talk show is no different than running an ad here. They need to focus it during the 5:00 news on MSM. The next problem is convincing the MSM to allow it on their channel.I wrote this a couple of years ago. I don't think it could be done now, with the latest climate change. But I believe they need to start looking into advertising like this. Here is the link...Time to Lead the Gun Rights Fight From the Front DING DING DING on that article. Exactly along the lines of what I was thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:29 PM Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 06:29 PM Produce some commercials/videos/etc. for Television and social Media presenting the real statistics and facts of gun ownership, what makes up the bulk of gun deaths, crimes (suicide and gang violence), how many crimes are thwarted by law abiding carrying citizens etc. Granted, their primary effort should be focused on our politicians. But, I am tired of the uninformed masses hearing just one, biased, statistic abusing/misusing/lieing message. Running a stat war? You'll lose. Far more stats that can be used to support the gun control side. In the end, it will accomplish nothing but throwing forth data and those that are predisposed to believe one set of data will believe that while ignoring the other side. In the 1950 and 60's people were killing themselves with the new hobby of scuba diving. Their homemade gear, non-standard training and lack of really understanding the issue was starting to lead to government intervention. The LA County Sheriff actually became a scuba certifying agency for California divers. This is when the industry stepped up and created training standards. The new agencies NAUI and YMCA did the training and set the standards to avoid government take over. In the UK the government did take over and for the next few decades, it was a ROYAL PITA to get certified. The GOA and NRA need to do follow this model IMHO. They should be setting minimum training requirements and standardized classes. Heck the NRA USED TO DO JUST THIS! They could get on this and end up making a lot of money training people and instructors! I can't argue with those initiatives. But, a continual bombardment of only one side of a dialog WILL have an affect on all those not already so anti-gun it won't matter. I truly don't think the true, full-on anti-gun are a a majority. I do think there are a lot in the middle, who are only hearing one side.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted February 26, 2018 at 07:03 PM Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 07:03 PM Back in the 90's during the Serbian ethnic cleansing, I always thought the NRA should run an ad featuring images of the refugee camps and mass graves with the tagline of "A solemn reminder of why our 2nd Amendment exists..." I agree. People in this country have totally forgot why we have the 2nd amendment. Incremental gun control is about the total abolishment of the 2nd ammendment. We aren't going to win anything for our side educating people on what an assault rifle is or isn't. We are going to win by educating people on the fact that the 2nd ammendment is just as relevant today. Upend their stereotypes by hammering on the fact that the people it's designed to protect aren't rich white guys that can afford their own security or afford to live in places without crime. Push that the 2nd ammendment even without it being enshrined in the constitution is a civil right and taking it away is a civil rights violation of epic proportion. Use their own Sal Alinskey poison. Make them seem like the racists for wanting to take it away. Make them seem like the elitists. Make them seem like they want the fascist regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted February 26, 2018 at 07:32 PM Author Share Posted February 26, 2018 at 07:32 PM Back in the 90's during the Serbian ethnic cleansing, I always thought the NRA should run an ad featuring images of the refugee camps and mass graves with the tagline of "A solemn reminder of why our 2nd Amendment exists..."I agree. People in this country have totally forgot why we have the 2nd amendment. Incremental gun control is about the total abolishment of the 2nd ammendment. We aren't going to win anything for our side educating people on what an assault rifle is or isn't. We are going to win by educating people on the fact that the 2nd ammendment is just as relevant today. Upend their stereotypes by hammering on the fact that the people it's designed to protect aren't rich white guys that can afford their own security or afford to live in places without crime. Push that the 2nd ammendment even without it being enshrined in the constitution is a civil right and taking it away is a civil rights violation of epic proportion. Use their own Sal Alinskey poison. Make them seem like the racists for wanting to take it away. Make them seem like the elitists. Make them seem like they want the fascist regime. great point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmcc Posted February 27, 2018 at 11:52 AM Share Posted February 27, 2018 at 11:52 AM I am done with the NRA myself. I will not be donating to them anymore.The 2nd Amendment Foundation and GOA will be getting more of my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaKoncepts aka CGS Posted February 27, 2018 at 01:45 PM Share Posted February 27, 2018 at 01:45 PM People tend to make emotional decisions, not logical ones. Furthermore i have literally had people tell me, "we dont care about your statistics." Bottom line is they just want to bam guns. Will the commercials hurt? No. Will thry help? Not as much as one would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipshot Percussion Posted February 27, 2018 at 03:48 PM Share Posted February 27, 2018 at 03:48 PM People tend to make emotional decisions, not logical ones. Furthermore i have literally had people tell me, "we dont care about your statistics." Bottom line is they just want to bam guns. Will the commercials hurt? No. Will thry help? Not as much as one would think.Agreed. They come from a place where "guns are bad" - so all their solutions start there. These shootings and frenzied media coverage confirms their bias. Hearing anything other than what they believe, no matter how truthful, no matter how factual, creates a cognitive dissonance they can't deal with - and that starts the heels digging in. My point on the commercials was more of a long-term assimilation of the gun culture into their lives - where seeing a gun isn't as jarring to them as it is right now. I don't need them to agree with me, I don't need to turn them to the 2nd Amendment, I just want to get them to a place where they can comfortably say - "I don't want guns, but if that's what you want, that's fine." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted February 27, 2018 at 05:37 PM Share Posted February 27, 2018 at 05:37 PM They should and I believe they have. The problem is their choice of venues. Running an ad like that during a conservative talk show is no different than running an ad here. They need to focus it during the 5:00 news on MSM. The next problem is convincing the MSM to allow it on their channel.These adds would be viewed as hate speech and would never make it on to the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chislinger Posted February 28, 2018 at 06:36 AM Share Posted February 28, 2018 at 06:36 AM The GOA and NRA need to do follow this model IMHO. They should be setting minimum training requirements and standardized classes. Heck the NRA USED TO DO JUST THIS! They could get on this and end up making a lot of money training people and instructors!You can't possibly believe the Parkland shooting, Las vegas, etc. were tragic accidents that could have been avoided with proper training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottFM Posted February 28, 2018 at 08:45 AM Share Posted February 28, 2018 at 08:45 AM You can't possibly believe the Parkland shooting, Las vegas, etc. were tragic accidents that could have been avoided with proper training. Where did in any way ever make such a stupid claim? Don't make stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybermgk Posted February 28, 2018 at 01:40 PM Author Share Posted February 28, 2018 at 01:40 PM THis video is why I think this needs to be done. They are brainwashing our younger generation to be at best just not pro gun, to completely ant-gun, playing a long game. Here we see how clueless our younger people are about both what the 2A is, but also the stats that are being fed them and how UNINFORMWED they are. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDlSVE0X3Ao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chislinger Posted February 28, 2018 at 03:18 PM Share Posted February 28, 2018 at 03:18 PM You can't possibly believe the Parkland shooting, Las vegas, etc. were tragic accidents that could have been avoided with proper training. Where did in any way ever make such a stupid claim? Don't make stuff up. Why are you calling for training requirements to own a gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconSorcerer Posted February 28, 2018 at 04:49 PM Share Posted February 28, 2018 at 04:49 PM I am done with the NRA myself. I will not be donating to them anymore. The 2nd Amendment Foundation and GOA will be getting more of my money. Interesting comment in the Tribune today... "Who elected the National Rifle Association to rule the nation?" the answer is THEY did, so agree with them or not you need to be in that count. The NRA has elections but I just don't know a whole lot of people who vote at all much less really understand how they stand. Like judges they primary source for the vote for them is lawyers... Who else knows ... or really seems to care to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTHunter Posted March 2, 2018 at 11:00 PM Share Posted March 2, 2018 at 11:00 PM FYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
357 Posted March 3, 2018 at 06:06 PM Share Posted March 3, 2018 at 06:06 PM Produce some commercials/videos/etc. for Television and social Media presenting the real statistics and facts of gun ownership, what makes up the bulk of gun deaths, crimes (suicide and gang violence), how many crimes are thwarted by law abiding carrying citizens etc. Granted, their primary effort should be focused on our politicians. But, I am tired of the uninformed masses hearing just one, biased, statistic abusing/misusing/lieing message. Running a stat war? You'll lose. Far more stats that can be used to support the gun control side.Oh really, what stats can be used to support the gun control side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagoresident Posted March 3, 2018 at 07:14 PM Share Posted March 3, 2018 at 07:14 PM Oh really, what stats can be used to support the gun control side?There has never been a legitimate statistical study done either for or against guns, simply for the reason that you can't ethically conduct an observational study with such strong predetermined biases. Other stuff working against this is low sample sizes, self selecting data sets, very few uniform data sets, and a general misunderstanding of correlation and causation by the general public. It follows along the cliche of there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. This is why funneling money from legitimate Healthcare studies to "gun violence" studies is so dangerous. It's a pseudoscience. The only legitimate study you could conduct involves selecting a large enough truly random sample size, making sure the non gun owning segment of your study is given enough guns to match the average of the gun owning side, and record over a period of time if they use the gun violently. Nobody on the pro gun side wants to spend the money on an obvious outcome and nobody on the anti gun side is willing to attempt to prove their argument with legitimate statistics by doing the very thing they are against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPistol Posted March 4, 2018 at 05:05 AM Share Posted March 4, 2018 at 05:05 AM I think the NRA and GOA need to switch the narrative of the 2A. Stop talking about governments becoming totalitarian and we can fight back. People are not going to shoot the cop living next door to them. Stop talking about hunting. START talking about self-defense. START talking about that ti is a human right. START talking about how they are defenders of the human right of self defense.START talking about that the right of self-defense is not limited. Pound on this. Emphasize this. Yes, a tyrannical government requiring people to defend themselves against it, but talking about that will lose support. Yes, hunting is a good thing but ordinary people are not hunting and many are grossed out and don't like bloodshed. The goal is to gain popular support of the 2A. We must tell people about how it is a human right. If one cannot defend themselves, the thugs and criminals win. Disarming the good people is the same as helping the bad people. Change the narrative. NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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