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#181 wishbone

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 11:31 AM

"But the public right-of-way on that land (the street & sidewalk) is not prohibited."

 

So your point is "the street & sidewalk" has to be owned by the public. Does that mean you can carry on a public sidewalk that goes through a Cook County Forest Preserve (a prohibited area)?



#182 Blackbeard

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 11:44 AM

"But the public right-of-way on that land (the street & sidewalk) is not prohibited."

 

So your point is "the street & sidewalk" has to be owned by the public. Does that mean you can carry on a public sidewalk that goes through a Cook County Forest Preserve (a prohibited area)?

 

Read my P.S. post again.  The streets and sidewalks are not owned by the public.  They're on the public right-of-way across private land, in most cases.

 

A sidewalk through the forest preserve is on public land, but is not necessarily a public right-of-way.  If there were a street that crosses a public forest, that's a right-of-way.  For example, parts of W 135th Street are entirely within the preserve, but it is a public right-of-way, so it is not prohibited per ( c ).  A paved path that wanders through the park is not a public right-of-way.


Blackbeard is not an attorney.  All comments posted are the views of Blackbeard alone and do not necessarily represent those of Illinois Carry™ or of any sane person.  For the love of God, please ignore any advice he has given.


#183 dkamikaze84

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 01:38 PM

Its says state parks. Can we carry in  a state park campground?



#184 hydraglide

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 09:17 AM

I've searched the forum and couldn't find a definitive answer to this question... That is, a definition of what an "entertainment venue" is.

Simply stating that an "Entertainment Venue" is a prohibited area seems to me to be way too broad of a statement and therefore left wide open for (negative) interpretation.

In my mind, an "entertainment venue" might include such areas as all movie theaters, golf courses, miniature putting, batting cages, pools, and more, making these and others similarly "defined" venues off limits, regardless as to whether or not they are "posted".

The definition of entertainment itself is quite broad:

en·ter·tain·ment noun \ˌen-tər-ˈtān-mənt\
: amusement or pleasure that comes from watching a performer, playing a game, etc.

: the act of amusing or entertaining people

Thoughts?

Edited by hydraglide, 18 October 2014 - 09:19 AM.


#185 Blackbeard

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 10:18 AM

I've searched the forum and couldn't find a definitive answer to this question... That is, a definition of what an "entertainment venue" is.

Simply stating that an "Entertainment Venue" is a prohibited area seems to me to be way too broad of a statement and therefore left wide open for (negative) interpretation.

In my mind, an "entertainment venue" might include such areas as all movie theaters, golf courses, miniature putting, batting cages, pools, and more, making these and others similarly "defined" venues off limits, regardless as to whether or not they are "posted".

The definition of entertainment itself is quite broad:

en·ter·tain·ment noun \ˌen-tər-ˈtān-mənt\
: amusement or pleasure that comes from watching a performer, playing a game, etc.

: the act of amusing or entertaining people

Thoughts?

 

Entertainment venue is only used in 65 (a)(15), which are all areas under the control of a college or university.  It doesn't include commercial theaters,etc.


Blackbeard is not an attorney.  All comments posted are the views of Blackbeard alone and do not necessarily represent those of Illinois Carry™ or of any sane person.  For the love of God, please ignore any advice he has given.


#186 hydraglide

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:05 PM




I've searched the forum and couldn't find a definitive answer to this question... That is, a definition of what an "entertainment venue" is.
Simply stating that an "Entertainment Venue" is a prohibited area seems to me to be way too broad of a statement and therefore left wide open for (negative) interpretation.
In my mind, an "entertainment venue" might include such areas as all movie theaters, golf courses, miniature putting, batting cages, pools, and more, making these and others similarly "defined" venues off limits, regardless as to whether or not they are "posted".
The definition of entertainment itself is quite broad:
en·ter·tain·ment noun \ˌen-tər-ˈtān-mənt\
: amusement or pleasure that comes from watching a performer, playing a game, etc.
: the act of amusing or entertaining people
Thoughts?

 
Entertainment venue is only used in 65 (a)(15), which are all areas under the control of a college or university.  It doesn't include commercial theaters,etc.
Thanks, Blackbeard... I was obviously reading it wrong... Phew!

#187 wishbone

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 02:28 PM

Getting back to the issue of carrying on a public right of way here is what the
large law firm Holland and Knight had to say about it. Note the example of carrying in a park.

"Holland & Knight
Illinois Government and Municipal Practice
Prohibited Areas and Employment Implications Under Illinois' New Concealed
Carry Act
November 25, 2013
By
Andrew N. Fiske
Mark E. Burkland

Conceal Carrying Through a Prohibited Area
Although a licensee cannot carry a concealed firearm in a
Prohibited Area, the new law allows a licensee to carry a
concealed firearm through a Prohibited Area so long as
the licensee is traveling along a public right-of-way.
For example, a licensee may carry a concealed firearm when
walking on a public sidewalk that goes through a park or past a school, so long as the licensee is "traveling" and does not veer off the sidewalk."

#188 r4ndy

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 05:17 PM

I wanted to verify my understanding of safe harbor:

If I have a CCL I can store the gun loaded in a case within my vehicle where safe harbor is allowed. I only have to unload if I want to get out of the car with the gun to store it in trunk.

Is this correct?

Edited by r4ndy, 26 November 2014 - 05:18 PM.


#189 Molly B.

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 05:22 PM

Correct.
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#190 r4ndy

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 05:52 PM

Thanks Molly!

#191 Blackbeard

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 07:11 PM

Getting back to the issue of carrying on a public right of way here is what the
large law firm Holland and Knight had to say about it. Note the example of carrying in a park.

"Holland & Knight
Illinois Government and Municipal Practice
Prohibited Areas and Employment Implications Under Illinois' New Concealed
Carry Act
November 25, 2013
By
Andrew N. Fiske
Mark E. Burkland

Conceal Carrying Through a Prohibited Area
Although a licensee cannot carry a concealed firearm in a
Prohibited Area, the new law allows a licensee to carry a
concealed firearm through a Prohibited Area so long as
the licensee is traveling along a public right-of-way.
For example, a licensee may carry a concealed firearm when
walking on a public sidewalk that goes through a park or past a school, so long as the licensee is "traveling" and does not veer off the sidewalk."

 

I'd agree with that.  You just have to realize that just being a sidewalk doesn't make it a public right-of-way.


Blackbeard is not an attorney.  All comments posted are the views of Blackbeard alone and do not necessarily represent those of Illinois Carry™ or of any sane person.  For the love of God, please ignore any advice he has given.


#192 rod white

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 04:13 PM

Can i carry in Shawnee National  forest,in southern il ?


Edited by rod white, 10 December 2014 - 04:14 PM.


#193 lockman

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 06:54 AM

Under federal law yes, understate law unless they post.

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#194 Falstaff

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Posted 11 December 2014 - 08:27 AM

Can i carry in Shawnee National  forest,in southern il ?

 

Per the National Forest Service, state law controls on this issue:  http://www.fs.usda.g...prdb5066182.pdf

Shawnee National Forest specific:  http://www.fs.usda.g...reation/hunting

It sounds like they want firearms unloaded and cased when in recreational areas.  Not sure if this is a mandate or a request.  There is a number you could call to ask.

 

For National Parks, the NRA has a good webpage:  http://www.nraila.or...onal-parks.aspx


Edited by Falstaff, 11 December 2014 - 08:28 AM.


#195 sirflyguy

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 02:35 PM

 

Can i carry in Shawnee National  forest,in southern il ?

 

Per the National Forest Service, state law controls on this issue:  http://www.fs.usda.g...prdb5066182.pdf

Shawnee National Forest specific:  http://www.fs.usda.g...reation/hunting

It sounds like they want firearms unloaded and cased when in recreational areas.  Not sure if this is a mandate or a request.  There is a number you could call to ask.

 

For National Parks, the NRA has a good webpage:  http://www.nraila.or...onal-parks.aspx

 

Here is a line copied from the first link: The second exception to this law allows people with a concealed weapon permit

to carry a loaded, concealed, handgun either on their person or in their vehicle while on National Forest. This does not apply if the person is engaged in a primitive weapons season or chase only season. 
 
But, as always, state and local laws apply.  http://dnr.state.il....ledCarryQnA.pdf

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#196 tropicallahans

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 08:14 AM

Regarding safe haven in a vehicle. O'hare airport has signs posted at the guard post entrance that say no firearms. I work at the airport and enter the property far away from the terminal. I would like to stop at the range on my way to work sometimes but I am not sure I can have my firearms in my trunk. I could break them down and put them in a locked case. I just want to know the law in case they do a random vehicle search. I guess the question is, does "no firearms" mean not allowed on property under no exceptions?

#197 RacerDave6

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 08:24 AM

Regarding safe haven in a vehicle. O'hare airport has signs posted at the guard post entrance that say no firearms. I work at the airport and enter the property far away from the terminal. I would like to stop at the range on my way to work sometimes but I am not sure I can have my firearms in my trunk. I could break them down and put them in a locked case. I just want to know the law in case they do a random vehicle search. I guess the question is, does "no firearms" mean not allowed on property under no exceptions?


Regardless of if it's criminally legal or illegal, if you in violation of employer work rules they can fire you.
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#198 Trevis

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 09:35 AM

You know, I'm seeing a lot of "parks" in Champaign area losing their CPZ signs.

I'm actually at work, next to a patch of grass which is apparently controlled by the Champaign Park District. There is a sign on the main roadway, but not on the side next to the residential neighborhood.

Does this constitute a park? What about the tiny patches of grass where they have a flower bed and a sign? I really think we need to get rid of these arbitrary and amorphous borders where your rights no longer exist, in fact, they are actively stripped by the law which I thought was the point of the suit that got the FCCL in place. Considering my taxes are paying for it as well, I'm definitely not getting my benefit of it since I cannot effectively protect myself and my children in some park. So, either I should be able to opt out of paying for it, or I should be able to practice my rights on land I help pay to maintain.

The other issue here was my first point. CPZ signs are disappearing on some parks. I don't know if people have stolen them, or if they were removed purposely by the park district. Centennial Park's CPZ signs are gone, but Kaufman park is still posted. Kaufman Lake is posted as well, which I didn't think qualified as a park, since it's a location where fishing is a primary purpose.

I think there needs to be something done about the prohibited locations. Just like the case that has begun to bring down the walls between the states for firearm sales, there is no demonstrable benefit for causing there to be so many prohibited locations. Yet, there are instances where a "gun free zone" has been demonstrated to be a danger, because it provides unarmed victims for those intent on great bodily harm.

Let's add to that the punitive way in which they enforce the CPZ's, and just simply possessing a thing inside some magical border becomes some egregious crime. At most, it is trespass, only to be escalated when there is actual criminal intent.

Edited by Trevis, 18 February 2015 - 09:39 AM.

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#199 Hipshot Percussion

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Posted 18 February 2015 - 09:45 AM

Any places supported through taxpayer money should be clear of signs.  Period.


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#200 firepiper

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 04:20 PM

Any places supported through taxpayer money should be clear of signs.  Period.

Wasn't there a case here in Illinois that dealt with a ban in public housing......Winbigler?

Wouldn't the same apply to parks being publicly owned just like public housing?

#201 Hipshot Percussion

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Posted 19 February 2015 - 04:37 PM

 

Any places supported through taxpayer money should be clear of signs.  Period.

Wasn't there a case here in Illinois that dealt with a ban in public housing......Winbigler?

Wouldn't the same apply to parks being publicly owned just like public housing?

 

Seems to me with Shepard and Heller, it was ruled that we have the right to carry for the purpose of self defense in public.  If it is taxpayer funded... to me its public.

 

just my opinion, 

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#202 mochahooligan

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 03:56 PM

How bout the auto show at McCormick place?



#203 tom28

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Posted 21 February 2015 - 04:30 PM

How bout the auto show at McCormick place?



Posted.

#204 Crypto

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 02:31 PM

Please take it easy on me :-) if this has been clarified before but I've searched using all terms I can think of. I've read the law many times and even asked the ISP for help.
Question:Are CCL holders prohibited from even having a firearm locked in the car when at Hines Hospital? Sign says no guns on property. My confusion comes from the fact it's a federal facillity. Using my limited understanding of legalese, since it's not nuclear it's OK to keep it looked away.
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#205 kwc

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 02:45 PM

Crypto, you were right to question this one. The prohibition on possessing firearms at a VA hospital or anywhere on the property is a Federal restriction and is incorporated into 430 ILCS 66/65(a)(23):

(23) Any area where firearms are prohibited under federal law.


Just like a military base, federal cemetery, or a post office, firearms are not allowed on the property, even when kept in a vehicle.

Edited by kwc, 22 February 2015 - 02:55 PM.

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#206 Crypto

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 02:54 PM

Thanks for the response kwc. To be on the safe side I've left the gear at home in case Barky the ammo sniffing K9 greeted me at the guard station. Thanks again!
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#207 lockman

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 02:58 PM

430 ILCS 66/65(a)(23) should be stricken because you can still be prosecuted under federal law regardless of what the state decides to do. As for cemeteries and such, only if they're posted.

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#208 kwc

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 03:09 PM

430 ILCS 66/65(a)(23) should be stricken because you can still be prosecuted under federal law regardless of what the state decides to do.

As for cemeteries and such, only if they're posted.


I would be surprised to find a federal cemetery that isn't posted. The federal statute would still apply, whether posted or not.
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#209 domin8

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Posted 22 February 2015 - 07:37 PM

There are many situations in which military attorneys may choose to not bring federal charges against somebody. For example, when another jurisdiction is bringing the same or similar charges against that person. For example, there was a drunk driver that ran from Highland Park Police several months ago. Long story short, the civilian ran the barrier at Naval Station Great Lakes and ended up hitting at least 1 NSGL PD vehicle before being stopped. To the best of my knowledge, JAG did not bring up charges against the guy because Highland Park, Lake Forest, Lake Bluff, and/or North Chicago were going to be throwing several charges his way. Same thing with the 2 kids that broke into vehicles parked in a military housing community built on Navy owned land. The service members living there caught the kids, and the town, and victimized service members decided to bring charges against the kids, and the military attorneys stayed out of the matter. The military attorneys will bring charges when another jurisdiction won't intervene.

Edited by domin8, 22 February 2015 - 07:39 PM.

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#210 Occmikey

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 04:35 PM

I sometimes work at my friends liquor store so what is the law with that.Reason I'm asking I asked few local cops and they would say Ya sure as long as you got the concealed you are good.Then again they could be saying that then the second I carry slap a case on me ?




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