boog Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:25 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:25 PM Does anyone have a guess as what the size the ISP will come up with. B-27 come in all sizes. I am guessing 23" x 35"Boog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:38 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:38 PM I was thinking 24" x 45" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:42 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:42 PM Hey Boog I always have a guess, I'll go with CountZero on this one. 24" x 45" Well, that's what I bought at WalMart anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:43 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:43 PM I thought the most common B27 target was the NRA 50 yard police pistol target and that is 45" from top to bottom. I don't think it matters much if you have white to the sides of the target. The B27 target with no white to the left or right of the target is 24" wide, the B27 with some white paper to the left and right of the silhouette is 35" across. I really don't see the need for extra paper, so I would think the 24" x 45" would be the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:47 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:47 PM There is no trademark on "B27" so any target maker can call their targets that, and they don't have to adhere to standard sizes but I think 23" x 35 is actually 22.5" x 34.5 and it is sometimes referred to as the B-27E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragsbo Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:51 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:51 PM Has anyone heard how they will score the target? Will they score it by the rings (X,10,9,8,7 etc) or will any bullet in the black count full score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:52 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:52 PM The main silhouette profile and size is the same across the different paper sizes or at least VERY similar, the only difference is the amount of border and some extended silhouette below the waist line on the 'full length' targets... I personally think they will leave range qualification and specific target choice up to the instructor simply based on the generic B27 nomenclature written in the law... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockShooter Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:53 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 09:53 PM Has anyone heard how they will score the target? Will they score it by the rings (X,10,9,8,7 etc) or will any bullet in the black count full score?From what I know, you just need to be in the black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted July 15, 2013 at 10:00 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 10:00 PM The way I read the bill - you just have to hit the TARGET. I think that just means in the black. There are no provisions for scoring and no scores mentioned - just percentage of hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted July 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM Share Posted July 15, 2013 at 10:01 PM The main silhouette profile and size is the same across the different paper sizes or at least VERY similar, the only difference is the amount of border and some extended silhouette below the waist line on the 'full length' targets... I called Pistoleer.com and talked to a guy about the different overall sizes of "B-27" targets. He put the 24" B-27 target over the 35" B-27 target and at least for the ones they sell - the silhouette portion was exactly the same size. http://www.pistoleer.com/targets/silhouette/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigcelia Posted July 16, 2013 at 01:59 AM Share Posted July 16, 2013 at 01:59 AM Greg, I bought the NRA Law Enforcement B27 silhouette which is 27 x 45. Huge target by the way. I hope ISP is approving that type. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobapunk Posted July 16, 2013 at 12:45 PM Share Posted July 16, 2013 at 12:45 PM I thought all B-27s were the same size, just different colors... There are 25 yard silhouettes, but I think those are called B-28s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted July 16, 2013 at 02:27 PM Share Posted July 16, 2013 at 02:27 PM There is an official NRA B-27 Law Enforcement Target. While the dimensions aren't listed in this booklet - you can find it here: http://le.nra.org/documents/pdf/law/competitions/rulebook.pdf Anyone can make a target and call it B-27, but only manufacturers licensed by the NRA can put the NRA Official Competition target seal on their targets. From what I can see of those B-27 targets that have the NRA seal on them they are most often 24 x 45 but I measured my targets made by National Target Co, and they have the NRA official seal. Measuring across the target along the numbers and through the X, the black silhouette portion is 20.75" wide. Measuring the black silhouette portion from the top of the head to the bottom the black portion is 42.5" tall. I have a call in to the NRA Law Enforcement Competitions Department to confirm the official NRA B-27 dimension specifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted July 16, 2013 at 02:33 PM Share Posted July 16, 2013 at 02:33 PM As we saw in previous proposed bills, I doubt you will see an 'endorsement' or 'requirement' to use an NRA approved target... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPistol Posted July 16, 2013 at 03:14 PM Share Posted July 16, 2013 at 03:14 PM It will be 1 inch by 2 inches. If any of it is left after your 30 shots, you failed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted July 16, 2013 at 03:30 PM Share Posted July 16, 2013 at 03:30 PM I could easily do that with my Rohrbaugh R9 using Blazzer Brass 147gr FMJ The bullets keyhole like crazy out of that short barrel, I'd probably only need 4 shots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobapunk Posted July 16, 2013 at 08:40 PM Share Posted July 16, 2013 at 08:40 PM Here you go: http://www.opticsplanet.com/champion-traps-and-targets-black-police-silhouette-target-40727.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScouseSniper Posted July 17, 2013 at 03:14 AM Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 03:14 AM · Hidden by Chris, February 16, 2014 at 10:53 PM - Request via MollyB Hidden by Chris, February 16, 2014 at 10:53 PM - Request via MollyB My Florida class had a shooting requirement beyond the typical demonstration test...we had to hit a 2 1/2 foot by 1 1/2 foot box in the middle of a B-27 target with at least 21 shots out of 30 which were taken from 7, 10 and 15 yards. However, we didn't know the exact size of the box and the test approach beforehand, so we started with the B-21 targets as per the old Texas testing method which are a bit smaller than the bigger B-27. I have bought both B-21 and B-27 targets in bulk and even with shipping I get them for a decent price. One idea that we came up with to help our accuracy was to put a few Shoot N See targets on the B-27 or B-21...they are adhesive backed so the can be pressed right on top of the big paper target. This gave us a very specific dot to shoot at as well as instant feedback after the shot. We've been pleased with our progress, so if you might try this to help you prepare for any CCW live fire test. Check out chiefsupply.com...they were really friendly and they provided a lot of good advise, and they shipped them to us quickly. I would think that the interpretation would be that a "hit" is a hole on the black area of the target. But if you have a more stringent instructor like we did, you migh have to group them a bit tighter. Link to comment
Lou Posted July 17, 2013 at 11:21 AM Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 11:21 AM http://www.letargets.com/estylez_item.aspx?item=B-27S+BLACK I've used this place and they ae very good. There are multiple B-27 targets but this one is the "standard" one, if such a thing exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted July 17, 2013 at 12:07 PM Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 12:07 PM The National Criminal Justice Association has specifications for what they call a B-27 target, it is a 24" x 45" target but it looks different from the plain black silhouette: To my knowledge, the only other organization that actually has specifications for what constitutes a B-27 target in the NRA. The NRA Law Enforcement Competitions Department has a specification for a "B-27 Law Enforcement Target" This target from Midway has the NRA seal in the lower left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornhunter04 Posted July 17, 2013 at 12:56 PM Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 12:56 PM These targets are huge! There's no need to buy these targets to practice with. Get a pack of 3x5 notecards staple those up and and shoot at them until you can keep all your shots on them. I practice shooting 3x5 notecards @ 30 yards, now that's a challenge! But it'll let you know if your doing something wrong at that distance. Keeping all shots during the test in the 9 ring and under should be easy, if not, your definitely doing something wrong, or you need different ammo. If you do use the b27 target to practice with, you can make it last longer by shooting for specific numbers, they make a heck of a good aiming point. Also, for a challenge take the target out to 25-50 yards and shoot for the head area on the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockerXX Posted July 17, 2013 at 04:01 PM Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 04:01 PM These targets are huge! There's no need to buy these targets to practice with. Get a pack of 3x5 notecards staple If the goal is to simply hit a B27 to qualify you could practice with sheets of poster paper at 18" x 24" and still have a margin of error... I understand the appeal of shooting at the real target (its the reason I went and got some) but it's hardly necessary for practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragsbo Posted July 17, 2013 at 04:41 PM Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 04:41 PM A cheap paper plate makes a great target that is about the right size for the "kill zone" of a person. If you can't but rounds in a paper plate at 5/7/10 yards then you need help! (especially when there isn't a time limit). Even a piece of note book paper would suffice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornhunter04 Posted July 17, 2013 at 04:45 PM Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 04:45 PM These targets are huge! There's no need to buy these targets to practice with. Get a pack of 3x5 notecards staple If the goal is to simply hit a B27 to qualify you could practice with sheets of poster paper at 18" x 24" and still have a margin of error... I understand the appeal of shooting at the real target (its the reason I went and got some) but it's hardly necessary for practice... Yeah i understand the appeal of that, guess it's why i have a box of IDPA targets to shoot at with pistol and rifle BTW, they make great target backers for your standard paper targets! I prefer to shoot at small targets, I've got a bunch of 3" ar500 steel triangles coming I'll be using for pistol practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdiogi Posted July 17, 2013 at 05:43 PM Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 05:43 PM These targets are huge! There's no need to buy these targets to practice with. Get a pack of 3x5 notecards staple If the goal is to simply hit a B27 to qualify you could practice with sheets of poster paper at 18" x 24" and still have a margin of error... I understand the appeal of shooting at the real target (its the reason I went and got some) but it's hardly necessary for practice... Yeah i understand the appeal of that, guess it's why i have a box of IDPA targets to shoot at with pistol and rifle BTW, they make great target backers for your standard paper targets! I prefer to shoot at small targets, I've got a bunch of 3" ar500 steel triangles coming I'll be using for pistol practice. A lot of you guys, if not most, are instructors, right? Why are you concerned about practicing? If I read the law right, when we are approved as instructors, we automatically qualify for a CC permit. In fact it says you must have a permit to be an instructor. But there is no one qualified to teach the classes, till instructors are approved!! Bit of a catch 22 written into the law there I believe. But I sure haven't come across the section that states the process for training or qualifying instructors. Just says ISP will approve or disapprove you. And there is no provision for multi-tiered levels of instructors, a LEO firearms instructor won't be designated to train a bunch of NRA certified instructors, for instance. Now if you just want to know what you are requiring of your students, or you want to show off to the class, that's something else. But I don't see where we need to qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobapunk Posted July 17, 2013 at 08:33 PM Share Posted July 17, 2013 at 08:33 PM I do not believe there is going to be any "instructor training". The ISP will just approve you based on the credentials you already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtr100 Posted July 18, 2013 at 02:54 AM Share Posted July 18, 2013 at 02:54 AM I do not believe there is going to be any "instructor training". The ISP will just approve you based on the credentials you already have. Mr Trust but verify here but a personal friend in the LE business seems to think the ISP wants the approval of instructors and courses to go as smoothly as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobapunk Posted July 18, 2013 at 01:28 PM Share Posted July 18, 2013 at 01:28 PM Yeah, and I have an instructor buddy who has a buddy that he served with in the sand-box who is now with the ISP, ISP buddy said that they are doing a 32-40 class in september to train CCW instructors... I think that is misinformation, but what the heck do I know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solareclipse2 Posted July 18, 2013 at 01:32 PM Share Posted July 18, 2013 at 01:32 PM About the B-27 target, I seem to recall someone on this forum posting a link to some extremely inexpensive B-27 targets online. I wanna say they were like 49 cents or something? Maybe I'm wrong but if someone does know, I'd appreciate the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooch Posted July 18, 2013 at 01:33 PM Share Posted July 18, 2013 at 01:33 PM When I applied for my Florida permit, I took the NRA first steps course. Will this count for any hours off the Illinois classroom requirement? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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