GodBlessTheUSA Posted June 24, 2017 at 10:41 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 10:41 PM I needed to ship one of my firearms back to Beretta for factory upgrades...I know the main UPS hub in Palatine is a "Gun Free Zone" so I decided to patronize a UPS Store instead.I was informed at the UPS Store that they "CAN NOT" ship firearms due to policy and that I needed to goto the hub instead. When I went to the UPS hub, I left my EDC in my vehicle and went inside to inquire as to how to properly ship a firearm, considering they have a "Gun Free Zone" sign on their door.The attendant said that the signs purpose was to prevent Concealed Carry while on the property, but I was allowed to bring in a firearm for shipment.This made me very uneasy because the sign and law is VERY explicit about ANY firearms on UPS property. UPS got my money, and I was able to ship a firearm back to the factory for upgrades, but the whole experience left me confused...What is the purpose of posting a "Gun Free Zone" sign on the front door if UPS allows shipment of firearms? Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkroenlein Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:02 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:02 PM An unloaded gun in a shipping box does not equal a concealed carry firearm and no law was broken. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:04 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:04 PM It isn't really a "gun free zone" sign even if it's often called that. The sign, when posted, prohibits concealed carry meaning a loaded, concealed firearm. You transported a firearm, one that was presumably unloaded and enclosed in a case. That was not a violation of the prohibition on carrying in a posted location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:05 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:05 PM And welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:05 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:05 PM What is the purpose of posting a "Gun Free Zone" sign on the front door if UPS allows shipment of firearms? Because if one licensee was carrying and standing in line and another licensee came in the store and cut in front of the licensee who was already waiting in line, There would be a shootout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTheUSA Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:06 PM Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:06 PM According to the law as written, bringing ANY firearm into a "Gun Free Zone" is illegal... Are you an attorney by chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:08 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:08 PM I am not an attorney, but that is nevertheless not the meaning of Section 65 of the FCCA. Perhaps you have something else in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTheUSA Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:10 PM Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:10 PM I am going to expect a lot of arm chair attorneys ringing in on this subject, but if you look at the law as written and interpreted, posting a "Gun Free Zone" sign includes legal and illegal firearm carrying of a firearm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:11 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:11 PM There is nothing in Illinois law defining or allowing a "Gun Free Zone Sign". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:12 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:12 PM You're going to make me go cut & paste "the law as written" aren't you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:14 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:14 PM I'm fond of saying: "I'm an attorney, but I'm not your attorney" It's not really true but I think it sounds cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTheUSA Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:15 PM Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:15 PM It is obvious that the posted signage got my attention, and I left my EDC in my vehicle when inquiring about firearm shipment procedure...That sign would not stop someone intent on doing harm... I do not believe that the entire intent of posting such singage is directed directly at concealed carriers...The most likely lawful intent of that sign is to prevent firearms on the property... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:19 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:19 PM If it's the sign described in the Firearm Concealed Carry Act it must explicitly cite the section of the Act prohibiting concealed carry when it's prohibited. The Act does not apply to possession or transportation of firearms not being carried concealed under authority of the Act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTheUSA Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:23 PM Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:23 PM Carrying an unloaded or loaded firearm in Illinois is against the law, unless you have a valid CCL or are transporting a firearm properly...Before Illinois passed the Carry Concealed Law, there was plenty of signage out there on businesses that didn't want firearms on their property... I sincerely doubt that the signage is specific to Concealed Carry license holders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:25 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:25 PM You correctly differentiated between carrying a firearm, and transporting one. There is no signage defined in Illinois law relative to transporting a firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:29 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:29 PM I'm thinking funny colored hair..........Short, height deficient, stubby legs n arms......And the occasional pointy ears..... Residency: Sweden Stop guys it's too easy and I don't need to get into trouble again........lol ha ha he he ho ho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:29 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:29 PM Carrying an unloaded or loaded firearm in Illinois is against the law, unless you have a valid CCL or are transporting a firearm properly...Before Illinois passed the Carry Concealed Law, there was plenty of signage out there on businesses that didn't want firearms on their property... I sincerely doubt that the signage is specific to Concealed Carry license holders...If you have an FCCL then you apparently took class to obtain it. If you don't understand the difference between carrying and transporting or what the sign designating a GFZ means you need to contact your instructor and have him explain it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geomick Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:34 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:34 PM Carrying an unloaded or loaded firearm in Illinois is against the law, unless you have a valid CCL or are transporting a firearm properly...Before Illinois passed the Carry Concealed Law, there was plenty of signage out there on businesses that didn't want firearms on their property... I sincerely doubt that the signage is specific to Concealed Carry license holders... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVcn4lznUOs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jatwood29 Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:37 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:37 PM Carrying an unloaded or loaded firearm in Illinois is against the law, unless you have a valid CCL or are transporting a firearm properly...Before Illinois passed the Carry Concealed Law, there was plenty of signage out there on businesses that didn't want firearms on their property... I sincerely doubt that the signage is specific to Concealed Carry license holders...You are actually incorrect. The no gun sign is only applicable to Concealed carry card holders while carrying a firearm, Carrying a firearm is different from transporting a firearm. the following site links to a pamphlet that the ISP put out outlining how to properly transport a firearm. https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/hunting/documents/transportyourfirearmlegally.pdfIf it is unloaded and in a container (container meaning the generally accepted term of a device that that contains something on all all sides including a latched lid) then you are transporting which anyone who possess a FOID card can do. How do you think a person that buys a gun from a store gets it home if it became illegal to posses an unloaded firearm after the CCW law was passed? further more, the signage is specific to concealed Carrying as the bottom of the sign must specifically reference the statute. any sign without that reference technically is non-compliant and does not carry force of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splash Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:46 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:46 PM I was able to send my cheap 1911 for warranty repair through UPS Store without issue. But then I had a pre-printed label attached to the package already which means I was only dropping it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splash Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:51 PM Share Posted June 24, 2017 at 11:51 PM If that is the case, a lot of felonies were commited when people where sending their long guns through USPS. By Federal Law, you cannot carry in any Federal bldg or facility including the parking lot. But then, that is not the case. Lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:03 AM Share Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:03 AM Welcome to the Forum! I hope the members here (many of whom are instructors) can help answer your questions. In the bottom right hand corner of the official ISP designated "No Gun" sign, it says, "Pursuant to 430 ILCS 66/65." If you Google 430 ILCS 66/65, it will take to you the Prohibited Areas section of the Firearms Concealed Carry Act. The state designated signs do not refer to anything else but a person licensed under the Firearms Concealed Carry Act. According to the FOID act and Unlawful Use of Weapons Act, anyone with a FOID card can transport an unloaded, encased firearm. No concealed carry license needed. The official ISP "No Gun" sign does not apply. You did not break any laws. Prior to the passage of the Firearms Concealed Carry Act, many property owners were putting up their own "No Gun" signs. There is no force of law behind these, except where firearms are already prohibited by law (federal property, taverns, etc). While we don't have any specific legal rulings as such, any "No Gun" signs that do not meet ISP specific requirements probably do not carry any force of law in regards to FCCA license holders. Opinions on this do vary. While this is second-hand information to you, I did have an Illinois judge take my class a few years ago, and he indicated that signs other than the official ISP designated "No Gun" sign carry no force of law. Do what you wish with that information. Carry on and be safe! -- Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTheUSA Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:04 AM Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:04 AM If that is the case, a lot of felonies were commited when people where sending their long guns through USPS. By Federal Law, you cannot carry in any Federal bldg or facility including the parking lot. But then, that is not the case. Lol..UPS is a federal entity? I thought UPS was a private entity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:05 AM Share Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:05 AM If that is the case, a lot of felonies were commited when people where sending their long guns through USPS. By Federal Law, you cannot carry in any Federal bldg or facility including the parking lot. But then, that is not the case. Lol..UPS is a federal entity? I thought UPS was a private entity... Splash was referring to USPS, the United States Postal Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauserme Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:06 AM Share Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:06 AM Splash was referring to the United States Postal Service (USPS), not United Parcel Service (UPS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbacs Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:07 AM Share Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:07 AM Edited..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodBlessTheUSA Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:07 AM Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:07 AM Welcome to the Forum! I hope the members here (many of whom are instructors) can help answer your questions. In the bottom right hand corner of the official ISP designated "No Gun" sign, it says, "Pursuant to 430 ILCS 66/65." If you Google 430 ILCS 66/65, it will take to you the Prohibited Areas section of the Firearms Concealed Carry Act. The state designated signs do not refer to anything else but a person licensed under the Firearms Concealed Carry Act. According to the FOID act and Unlawful Use of Weapons Act, anyone with a FOID card can transport an unloaded, encased firearm. No concealed carry license needed. The official ISP "No Gun" sign does not apply. You did not break any laws. Prior to the passage of the Firearms Concealed Carry Act, many property owners were putting up their own "No Gun" signs. There is no force of law behind these, except where firearms are already prohibited by law (federal property, taverns, etc). While we don't have any specific legal rulings as such, any "No Gun" signs that do not meet ISP specific requirements probably do not carry any force of law in regards to FCCA license holders. Opinions on this do vary. While this is second-hand information to you, I did have an Illinois judge take my class a few years ago, and he indicated that signs other than the official ISP designated "No Gun" sign carry no force of law. Do what you wish with that information. Carry on and be safe! -- FrankThank you Frank... First useful and informative reply... thank you sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talonap Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:58 AM Share Posted June 25, 2017 at 12:58 AM Welcome to the Forum! I hope the members here (many of whom are instructors) can help answer your questions. In the bottom right hand corner of the official ISP designated "No Gun" sign, it says, "Pursuant to 430 ILCS 66/65." If you Google 430 ILCS 66/65, it will take to you the Prohibited Areas section of the Firearms Concealed Carry Act. The state designated signs do not refer to anything else but a person licensed under the Firearms Concealed Carry Act. According to the FOID act and Unlawful Use of Weapons Act, anyone with a FOID card can transport an unloaded, encased firearm. No concealed carry license needed. The official ISP "No Gun" sign does not apply. You did not break any laws. Prior to the passage of the Firearms Concealed Carry Act, many property owners were putting up their own "No Gun" signs. There is no force of law behind these, except where firearms are already prohibited by law (federal property, taverns, etc). While we don't have any specific legal rulings as such, any "No Gun" signs that do not meet ISP specific requirements probably do not carry any force of law in regards to FCCA license holders. Opinions on this do vary. While this is second-hand information to you, I did have an Illinois judge take my class a few years ago, and he indicated that signs other than the official ISP designated "No Gun" sign carry no force of law. Do what you wish with that information. Carry on and be safe! -- FrankThank you Frank... First useful and informative reply... thank you sir! Or just the first that you chose to accept as true or. "...useful..."? Every one of the replies was useful and true. Perhaps you just wanted more specifics instead of straight forward answers to your question? Or just did not want to hear that you were mistaken? Oh, welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkroenlein Posted June 25, 2017 at 01:36 AM Share Posted June 25, 2017 at 01:36 AM I have cut and pasted all the 720 ILCS 5/24-XXXXXXX and 430 ILCS 66-XXXXXXX that I intend to in this lifetime. Let another take my place. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKoz Posted June 25, 2017 at 01:38 AM Share Posted June 25, 2017 at 01:38 AM I'm in baby !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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