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Training: Can lasers be helpful for defensive gun use?

laser aiming defensive handgun equalizer targeting Crimson Trace Laserlyte close range fighting back

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#1 davidmcw3

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:44 PM

 It seems that most instructors of concealed carry classes don't promote lasers on concealed carry handguns very much. Why is this? It makes a lot of sense that in a sudden attack there may not be much time to aim or bring your equalizer up to your eye to take aim via conventional sights or even a red dot sight. A laser allows for accuracy without moving the gun much at all, and thus much faster reaction. Is this practical common sense or not?

 

Lasers just make sense it seems. Effectiveness and speed of response should take precedence over seeing a laser as a cheat for practical purposes and conventional training. Gun mounted lasers can improve accuracy and speed under stress even for novices, can't they? It seems that there might be an intimidation factor with a laser too.

 

A disadvantage is maintaining the proper aim with a laser. I have 2 grip activated lasers for 2 9mm equalizers and a NAA Black Widow .22 magnum with a button operated laser and find that the 9mm lasers need to be calibrated regularly. The .22 manum laser is not adjustable. Is bore sighting a good way to calibrate lasers? I just ordered a variable caliber, barrel inserted, bore sighting laser to calibrate the lasers on my guns. This seems to be an essential device to check & maintain proper aim for a handgun laser. Thoughts? I have been aligning my lasers with my iron sights but feel that a bore sight alignment of the handgun laser would be better. One of my 9mm guns is a Glock 17 which is used for IDPA and the laser is regularly removed and remounted.

 

I look forward to hearing your response!

 

 



#2 UnderCover

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:56 PM

Here's some good information about Lasers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oRUrNjBJIE#t=265


Edited by UnderCover, 04 February 2016 - 09:57 PM.

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But, the main thing to make it my perfect & favorite gun will be my "Shot Placement" no matter what caliber I'll be using.

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#3 InterestedBystander

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:55 PM

As an fyi, afaik, there is still a law against lasers in Chicago. Maybe preempted, but not tested.
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#4 BadWaterBill

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 11:21 PM

I just purchased a lazer cartridge for my 38cal handgun.

 

Pull the gun from its holster and use a instinctive grip to see how far you are off at a given range.

 

If you are any distance off shift your grip and keep practicing till you are on target every time instinctively.

 

Starting to work for me after a short time of practicing.

 

PS

 

Buy yourself spare batteries as they do not last very long in usage..



#5 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 01:21 AM

My LaserMax guide rod laser has literally been enough of a deterrent three times to prevent me from needing to actually shoot someone in the past year:

 

http://illinoiscarry...showtopic=58346

 

http://illinoiscarry...e=2#entry940303

 

Incidentally, the guy in the second link I posted just got himself shot by another CCL holder, apparently: http://illinoiscarry...topic=60147&hl=

 

My guess is that the guy who shot him didn't have a laser on his gun, and the scumbucket, ex-gangbanger, drug dealer who got ventilated didn't realize he was being drawn on until the bullet started flying. I'd also bet that he figured, "How many people am I going to roll up on are going to be packing in this neighborhood? Surely not more than that one guy who drew on me last summer. Oh sh!t!" BLAM!

 

That intimidation factor is extremely real, and when I train with it I am just as accurate, if not more so, than with my normal shooting mode.


Edited by ChicagoRonin70, 05 February 2016 - 01:39 AM.

"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?

 

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#6 Trevis

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 01:32 AM

They, IMO, are an aid. They shouldn't be your first line. Batteries fail, but iron sights are there to stay. I never used them in anything that has them, so I just don't bother.

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#7 BobbyT

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 03:42 AM

I could buy the deterrence factor, but I think in the majority of attacks you wouldn't even see the dot, you'd just be point shooting.

 

ChicagoRonin, that funeral home garage in your link, at Wellington and Southport, is the alley I walk through on a weekly basis.  I know crime has skyrocketed in Lakeview, but that spot wouldn't strike me as crime-friendly if only because of how open it is.  Then again I guess they don't really worry about anyone intervening these days, and there aren't many cops around, so why not...


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#8 WARFACE

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 05:39 AM

My nightstand gun is a Glock 21SF with a Crimson Trace laser. I like my carry gun plain and simple but I feel confident knowing that if I get jolted awake that all I have to do grip the gun and I am aiming. Lasers do have their uses but IMO they can become a crutch to good training. 


Edited by WARFACE, 05 February 2016 - 05:40 AM.

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#9 BadWaterBill

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:18 AM

My nightstand gun is a Glock 21SF with a Crimson Trace laser. I like my carry gun plain and simple but I feel confident knowing that if I get jolted awake that all I have to do grip the gun and I am aiming. Lasers do have their uses but IMO they can become a crutch to good training. 

That is why I mentioned practicing with the laser cartridge in the chamber to improve your INSTINCTIVE training till when you draw The laser will always be on the bullseye EVERY time.

 

Once you have practiced enough instinct SHOULD have you zeroed in weather you have a laser there or not.

 

Just my suggestion but YMMV.



#10 WARFACE

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 06:35 AM

 

My nightstand gun is a Glock 21SF with a Crimson Trace laser. I like my carry gun plain and simple but I feel confident knowing that if I get jolted awake that all I have to do grip the gun and I am aiming. Lasers do have their uses but IMO they can become a crutch to good training. 

That is why I mentioned practicing with the laser cartridge in the chamber to improve your INSTINCTIVE training till when you draw The laser will always be on the bullseye EVERY time.

 

Once you have practiced enough instinct SHOULD have you zeroed in weather you have a laser there or not.

 

Just my suggestion but YMMV.

 

Good advice. I have found that snap cap training has done WONDERS for my instinctive aim. Its very boring to train that way but I started drawing from concealment and  "firing" 10 times a day. Over the last 6 months, those 10 times a day has transformed into muscle memory and my gun come out on target automatically. I can't say enough good things about snap cap training.


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#11 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:18 AM

 

 

My nightstand gun is a Glock 21SF with a Crimson Trace laser. I like my carry gun plain and simple but I feel confident knowing that if I get jolted awake that all I have to do grip the gun and I am aiming. Lasers do have their uses but IMO they can become a crutch to good training. 

That is why I mentioned practicing with the laser cartridge in the chamber to improve your INSTINCTIVE training till when you draw The laser will always be on the bullseye EVERY time.

 

Once you have practiced enough instinct SHOULD have you zeroed in weather you have a laser there or not.

 

Just my suggestion but YMMV.

 

Good advice. I have found that snap cap training has done WONDERS for my instinctive aim. Its very boring to train that way but I started drawing from concealment and  "firing" 10 times a day. Over the last 6 months, those 10 times a day has transformed into muscle memory and my gun come out on target automatically. I can't say enough good things about snap cap training.

 

 

Yep, those snap caps/laser cartridges are great for that. I'm even more fanatical than you are, although less so now than I was. I used to do 200 draw-and-fire drills every night. Now I just a hundred or so a couple of times per week.


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

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#12 ChicagoRonin70

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:22 AM

I could buy the deterrence factor, but I think in the majority of attacks you wouldn't even see the dot, you'd just be point shooting.

 

ChicagoRonin, that funeral home garage in your link, at Wellington and Southport, is the alley I walk through on a weekly basis.  I know crime has skyrocketed in Lakeview, but that spot wouldn't strike me as crime-friendly if only because of how open it is.  Then again I guess they don't really worry about anyone intervening these days, and there aren't many cops around, so why not...

 

That situation was during the warm weather spate we had last January, and that guy had been lurking all over the neighborhood. I'd seen him in the alleys on Lakewood several days earlier, so my guess is that he just followed the alley down until he found some place where it seemed like he might find someone out not paying attention, as they do in that area all the time coming from the Golden Apple. That parking lot next to the east of the funeral home actually gets pretty dark late at night right up against the side of the building, plus it allows access to both Wellington and the alley behind the funeral home along Southport, so I suspect he was spotting people on Wellington and hurrying around the building to surprise them as they walked unsuspectingly past the corner on Southport.

 

Unfortunately, he met up with me and my dog. And my firearm.


"A well educated Media, being necessary for the preservation of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed."

 

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Who gets to keep and read books? The Media? Or is it the People?

 

“One can never underestimate the idiocy of those determined to be offended by things that don't affect their real lives in the slightest.” —Me
 
“Hatred is the sharpest sword; the desire for peace is armor made of willow leaves in the face of an enemy who despises you, as neither alone will stop a strike that is aimed at your neck.” —Samurai proverb
 
“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.” —Robert Heinlein
 
“I reserve the right to take any action necessary to maintain the equilibrium in which I've chosen to exist.” —Me
 
"It ain't braggin' if you done it." —Will Rogers

 

 InX89li.jpg