ISP FILES EMERGENCY RULES REGARDING FOID AND CCL RENEWALS

[steveTA84]

 

 

What are they doing for new applicants? Seems like IL should be constitutional carry for the time of the disaster + 12 months.

 

Maybe by leaving expirations alone for awhile they can catch up on the stuff for the newbies.

That would be the most right thing to do short of voiding the foid. I picture most of the people waiting for a foid to have been anti's pre-pandemic panic so I am torn between hating the infringement and serves them right.

Problem is, those people-pandemic antis will more than likely go back to old habits once this is all over or be one of those “I’m a gun owner and support the 2nd amendment, but......”

[Kingcreek]

The whole FOID process doesn’t work in good times. It really doesn’t work in crisis times.

I can’t praise the Illinois politicians or the ISP until they scrap the whole thing. People in Illinois have lived so long with the FOID that they are willing to praise the masters for giving them a few crumbs.

[mab22]

People are talking about getting free extra months...maybe or maybe not. They changed the law to issue new cards to expire 5 years from expiration date, not process date. So maybe you can run on an "expired" card for 12 months but when they get around to printing your new one, you might only get 4 years until new expire date.

Who has the authority to change “laws”?

Does the ISP “ACTUALLY” have the legal authority to make these types of changes?

If they can make these changes, what other changes can they make when shelter in place is over, “sorry back to the original rules effective immediately?”

 

What changes can they make when they want, based on what circumstances they decide, when they decide?

 

 

 

 

[tkroenlein]

I stopped by just to see the responses here, to this topic.

 

There is NOTHING GOOD about this. They cannot just change the law to suit them. We are a SHALL ISSUE STATE. They are sabotaging the [unconstitutional] law and disregarding the statute so they can continue to get away with it. And a whole flock of you are lapping it up like they're doing you a favor. For shame.

 

When will you stop bending over for them?

[capnbill]

And, how many FFL's are going to risk their business's to allow ammo and firearm purchases based on this memo/letter? I'm thinking, not many.

[InterestedBystander]

Who has the authority to change laws?

 

Does the ISP ACTUALLY have the legal authority to make these types of changes?

 

If they can make these changes, what other changes can they make when shelter in place is over, sorry back to the original rules effective immediately?

 

What changes can they make when they want, based on what circumstances they decide, when they decide?

The 5 year expiration date was a bill passed by the ILGA. As for JCAR Emergency Rules:

 

Emergency rules

Temporary rules that take effect immediately or up to 10 days after filing with the Secretary of State, but remain in effect for no more than 150 days. The IAPA allows use of emergency rulemaking when an agency determines that a "threat to the public interest, safety or welfare" requires rules to be adopted in less time than would be needed to complete proposed

rulemaking. JCAR reviews emergency rules to insure that they meet these criteria. If an agency wants to maintain the policy established in the temporary emergency rule, a companion proposed rule must also be adopted. The companion proposed rulemaking should be adopted before the emergency rule expires. Agencies cannot file the same emergency rule more than once within a 24-month period, unless the General Assembly makes an exception to this limit and to the 150-day limit in statute. Statutes may also authorize agencies to use emergency rulemaking for specific purposes.

 

Emergency/Peremptory Rulemaking Process

Emergency and peremptory rules take effect mmediately upon or shortly after being filed with the Secretary of State. JCAR reviews them only after they are effective. However, JCAR may take the following actions concerning these rules:

A Recommendation indicates that JCAR has concerns regarding the rule language, the process

the agency followed in adopting the rule, or the agency's use of emergency or peremptory

rulemaking. It does not affect the validity or enforcement of the rule.

 

An Objection to an emergency or peremptory rule indicates that JCAR finds the rule is not consistent with statute, has an adverse economic impact on small businesses, small municipalities, and non-profit organizations, or fails to meet some other standard established by the IAPA, or that the rulemaking process failed to meet the requirements of or the agency did not have sufficient reason to use emergency or peremptory rulemaking. An agency may modify an emergency or peremptory rule only in response to an Objection (in the case of an emergency rule, the modification lasts for the remainder of the 150 day life of the original rule or until the emergency rule is replaced by a permanent proposed rule with the modification). The agency must respond to the Objection within 90 days; the lack of a response is deemed to be a refusal to modify the

rulemaking.

 

A Suspension of an emergency or peremptory rule, in conjunction with an Objection, stops the rule from being enforced based on JCAR's finding that the rule is contrary to the public interest, safety or welfare and/or that there is no legitimate reason for the agency to have used emergency or peremptory rulemaking. The rule cannot be enforced again until JCAR agrees to withdraw the Suspension, which may remain in effect up to 180 days. If not withdrawn by the end of that period, the Suspension becomes permanent.

[rmart]

I've always felt the FOID card was just a system to identify which doors to knock on first...

[lockman]

Doesn’t the Governors emergency declaration expire tomorrow? It can only last 30 days by law, wouldn’t any extension for the same disaster require an act of the legislature?

 

So the 12 months commenced as of tomorrow right?

 

 

^ this ***

[snowcat]

I'm trying to go through the CCL renewal now, i'm stuck on the Training information page. Won't let me proceed without a instructor name.

[steveTA84]

I stopped by just to see the responses here, to this topic.

There is NOTHING GOOD about this. They cannot just change the law to suit them. We are a SHALL ISSUE STATE. They are sabotaging the [unconstitutional] law and disregarding the statute so they can continue to get away with it. And a whole flock of you are lapping it up like they're doing you a favor. For shame.

When will you stop bending over for them?

It’s more out of shock that they haven’t tried to pull what they’re doing in many other states that are anti-gun during the lockdowns. Stop processing CCW’s and renewals, forcing gun stores to close, etc

[mab22]

 

Who has the authority to change “laws”?

 

Does the ISP “ACTUALLY” have the legal authority to make these types of changes?

 

If they can make these changes, what other changes can they make when shelter in place is over, “sorry back to the original rules effective immediately?”

 

What changes can they make when they want, based on what circumstances they decide, when they decide?

The 5 year expiration date was a bill passed by the ILGA. As for JCAR Emergency Rules:

 

Emergency rules – Temporary rules that take effect immediately or up to 10 days after filing with

the Secretary of State, but remain in effect for no more than 150 days. The IAPA allows use of

emergency rulemaking when an agency determines that a "threat to the public interest, safety or

welfare" requires rules to be adopted in less time than would be needed to complete proposed

rulemaking. JCAR reviews emergency rules to insure that they meet these criteria. If an agency

wants to maintain the policy established in the temporary emergency rule, a companion proposed

rule must also be adopted. The companion proposed rulemaking should be adopted before the

emergency rule expires. Agencies cannot file the same emergency rule more than once within a

24-month period, unless the General Assembly makes an exception to this limit and to the 150-

day limit in statute. Statutes may also authorize agencies to use emergency rulemaking for specific

purposes.

 

Emergency/Peremptory Rulemaking Process

Emergency and peremptory rules take effect immediately upon or shortly after being filed with the

Secretary of State. JCAR reviews them only after they are effective. However, JCAR may take

the following actions concerning these rules:

A Recommendation indicates that JCAR has concerns regarding the rule language, the process

the agency followed in adopting the rule, or the agency's use of emergency or peremptory

rulemaking. It does not affect the validity or enforcement of the rule.

An Objection to an emergency or peremptory rule indicates that JCAR finds the rule is not

consistent with statute, has an adverse economic impact on small businesses, small municipalities,

and non-profit organizations, or fails to meet some other standard established by the IAPA, or that

the rulemaking process failed to meet the requirements of or the agency did not have sufficient

reason to use emergency or peremptory rulemaking. An agency may modify an emergency or

peremptory rule only in response to an Objection (in the case of an emergency rule, the

modification lasts for the remainder of the 150 day life of the original rule or until the emergency

rule is replaced by a permanent proposed rule with the modification). The agency must respond to

the Objection within 90 days; the lack of a response is deemed to be a refusal to modify the

rulemaking.

A Suspension of an emergency or peremptory rule, in conjunction with an Objection, stops the

rule from being enforced based on JCAR's finding that the rule is contrary to the public interest,

safety or welfare and/or that there is no legitimate reason for the agency to have used emergency

or peremptory rulemaking. The rule cannot be enforced again until JCAR agrees to withdraw the

Suspension, which may remain in effect up to 180 days. If not withdrawn by the end of that period,

the Suspension becomes permanent.

 

 

Why isn't the congress making changes to the law?

 

Where does JCAR fall in the Judicial, Legislative, or Executive branches? Is it a Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, etc branch of government?

 

Do Judicial orders mean nothing? Get a Judge involved and declare an order so its actually enforceable and has been reviewed by another branch of government.

 

You have non-elected, unaccountable bureaucrats making law? Do you really want that?

[Gamma]

Shocking level of practicality. Had to do a double take.

 

I'm sure the cluster they would be faced with without some significant accommodations might well break the system though.

[Win30-30]

I have a Foid Card that expired on 2-1-20 and a CCL that expired on 1-5-20. Both still under review even though I renewed my CCL on 10/12/19 and my Foid on 11/6/19 and money for both was cashed immediately.

 

Will this extension allow me to take an expired Foid Card to a gun store to buy ammo or purchase a firearm? Especially if after 60 days from expiration they are creating our Foid Card to be denied when checked by someone as stated above in this forum?

[mic6010]

Yeah that does nothing. I can't buy things that I legally need a FOID card to buy with an expired FOID card. No online vendor is accepting that. Most stores will not accept that.

[Bubbacs]

i want help

 

here's your help

 

that's not the way I wanted it

 

take it or go back to what you had

 

oh ok thank you

 

good day

[joker]

My bet is they will keep expiration dates the same so even with a 12 month extension probably only get a 4 year card

There is nothing free in Illinois except the air we breath, and even that's contaminated now

[mauserme]

Why isn't the congress making changes to the law?

 

Where does JCAR fall in the Judicial, Legislative, or Executive branches? Is it a Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, etc branch of government?

 

Do Judicial orders mean nothing? Get a Judge involved and declare an order so its actually enforceable and has been reviewed by another branch of government.

 

You have non-elected, unaccountable bureaucrats making law? Do you really want that?

JCAR is part of the Legislative branch, being comprised of Illinois House Representatives and Senators chosen to ensure that the legislature's intent is reflected in the on-the-ground implementation of law in the real world. Emergency rules are allowed to address, well, emergencies which the current FOID and licensing situation surely is. The rule making process normally does include input from the agency charged with implementing the law.

 

Whether these rules fall within or outside the intent of the FOID Act can be debated. I could argue that the intent of the FOID Act was originally not to act as a barrier to the 2A, or perhaps as a barrier only to people of color in Chicago back when it became law.

 

These rules do seem to be at least well intentioned, even if imperfect. If nothing else, I'm encouraged by the fact that the problem is now being acknowledged, and addressed in a way that attempts to mitigate the effects.

[Benbow]

As a dealer, I would / do have no problem selling to someone with a facially "expired" license, as long as there is some documentation, such as this memo, that says it is still good. FFL dealers themselves, for years, have operated under "extension letters" from ATF, when their actually FFL was expired and ATF had not gotten arround to issuing a new one. My driver's license says its expired, but has a "renewal sticker" on the back.

 

As far as I am concerned, if they want to buy a gun from me, and ISP does not DISAPPROVE of the transfer in four days (I'll give them an extra day over what the law actually requires), I'm good to do, and I'll keep copies of the relevant paperwork stapled to the 4473 for posterity.

 

As for ammo, if you have an FOID whose only problem is an expiration date, and a letter that says its extended, I'm good with that.

 

And keep in mind, I've refused to sell to people because of what was printed on their T-Shirt and once because of a particular tattoo one guy had. I'm pretty damn picky about who I sell to, and I am very comfortable with the above.

 

www.illinoissbr.com

[wbielins]

Finally some good news about the FOID and CCL. Can anybody tell me why the cost to change your address is $80 for EACH card?

[InterestedBystander]

Finally some good news about the FOID and CCL. Can anybody tell me why the cost to change your address is $80 for EACH card?

I thought it was $5 FOID + $75 CCL.

[Felixd]

The recent edict from ISP again illustrates that the FOID act is unnecessary and needs to replaced with the Federal system. If the bureaucracy fails under the stress of use, regardless of this emergency, then the the process needs to be replaced. It would be fiscally responsible to shed some of the state’s unnecessary pension liabilities and added labor and use NICS.

[rmart]

You're assuming they don't want the system to fail.

[EdDinIL]

Yeah that does nothing. I can't buy things that I legally need a FOID card to buy with an expired FOID card. No online vendor is accepting that. Most stores will not accept that.

This is an important point. I wish good luck to anyone trying this with an out-of-state vendor. I assume they are under zero obligation to know about the emergency rule, much less honor it.

[InterestedBystander]

 

Yeah that does nothing. I can't buy things that I legally need a FOID card to buy with an expired FOID card. No online vendor is accepting that. Most stores will not accept that.

 

This is an important point. I wish good luck to anyone trying this with an out-of-state vendor. I assume they are under zero obligation to know about the emergency rule, much less honor it.

Are these emergency rules/news release posted on any official site i.e. JCAR, IL State Police, etc instead of people posting/hosting their own copies?

[Molly B.]

http://www.isp.state.il.us/media/pressdetails.cfm?ID=1063

[THE KING]

http://www.isp.state.il.us/media/pressdetails.cfm?ID=1063

This is all fine and dandy but, I have had two students contact me and neither of them can renew. One student just expired and the other is coming up to expire. The website will not let them progress without inputting an instructor name and I will bet they won't be able to proceed past the training requirement either.

 

Everything sounds good on paper but the ISP website is still FUBAR.

 

What a great state NOT.

 

If anyone knows a fix would you please share it with us.

[JTHunter]

http://www.isp.state.il.us/media/pressdetails.cfm?ID=1063

Thanks Molly !

[crash7]

http://www.isp.state.il.us/media/pressdetails.cfm?ID=1063

 

This is all fine and dandy but, I have had two students contact me and neither of them can renew. One student just expired and the other is coming up to expire. The website will not let them progress without inputting an instructor name and I will bet they won't be able to proceed past the training requirement either.

Everything sounds good on paper but the ISP website is still FUBAR.

What a great state NOT.

If anyone knows a fix would you please share it with us.

 

I wondered about this. Declarations are one thing. Programming is another. Who do we call to fix this (giggle)?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[THE KING]

 

http://www.isp.state.il.us/media/pressdetails.cfm?ID=1063

 

This is all fine and dandy but, I have had two students contact me and neither of them can renew. One student just expired and the other is coming up to expire. The website will not let them progress without inputting an instructor name and I will bet they won't be able to proceed past the training requirement either.

Everything sounds good on paper but the ISP website is still FUBAR.

What a great state NOT.

If anyone knows a fix would you please share it with us.

I wondered about this. Declarations are one thing. Programming is another. Who do we call to fix this (giggle)?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a good question considering the ISP rarely answer the phone in the first place.

[steveTA84]

^^^^

 

If only they didn’t allow tens of millions of allocated funds to be transferred.....