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"Machine guns" and the 2nd Amendment


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#1 JTHunter

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 09:31 PM

Most of you have heard the oft-repeated lefty comment that the Founding Fathers, in writing the 2nd Amendment, did NOT intend for civilians have automatic weapons. Or, they claim (again falsely) that the FFs could not have anticipated the technological advancements in firearms.

Well, now you can tell those antis to "stuff it" as there was a "machine gun" developed and patented in 1718 by a British lawyer and inventor. Named after him, it was called the "Puckle" gun.

 

https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Puckle_gun
The Puckle gun (also known as the Defence gun) was a primitive crew-served, manually-operated flintlock revolver patented in 1718 by James Puckle (1667–1724) a British inventor, lawyer and writer. It was one of the earliest weapons to be referred to as a "machine gun", being called such in a 1722 shipping manifest, though its operation does not match the modern use of the term. However, the Puckle gun was never used during any combat operation or war. Production was highly limited and may have been as few as two guns.

http://www.wideopens....300-years-ago/

https://www.historic....r-Defense-Gun/


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#2 InterestedBystander

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 09:52 PM

They also had a 20 shot repeating air rifle in the late 1700's

https://en.m.wikiped...ndoni_air_rifle

Caliber .46, 210 grains (13.6 g)
Muzzle velocity about 500 fps (152 m/s), 117 ft lbs (159 J)
Feed system 20/21 round vertical hopper

With a full air reservoir, the Girandoni air rifle had the capacity to shoot 30 shots at useful pressure. These balls were effective to approximately 125 yd (114 m) on a full air reservoir. The power declined as the air reservoir was emptied.

Edited by InterestedBystander, 06 May 2018 - 11:53 PM.

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#3 WitchDoctor

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 11:02 PM

They also had a 30 shot repeating air rifle in the late 1700's

https://en.m.wikiped...ndoni_air_rifle

I could have used that in the mid 70s. If we only had the internet then. I think it was in existence and called ARPANET.

Almost as old as me:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET


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#4 Smallbore

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 05:32 AM

Nothing to indicate "arms" refered on to hand held firearms. The British matched on Concord to confiscate canon, ball and powder.
Too long ago courts stole the power to interpret and enforce statutes based on their personal wishes not on the author's meaning and the words common meaning of the time.
There used to be a sharing of power between the three branches of government. Today the supreme court has supreme power. This word be ok if they did not steal legislative power.

#5 TRJ

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 07:14 AM

The private ownership of canons has always been my response to the musket argument. And just as a modern rifle has evolved with technology, so has modern artillery. If one can afford modern artillery one should be able to own modern artillery.

Can you imagine an open carry march with trucks towing privately owned howitzers?
The global internet, a smart phone, and social media remain more dangerous.

#6 WitchDoctor

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 09:59 AM

As mentioned above regarding cellphones, internet and liberals equals this;

https://www.blogger....08579065&bpli=1


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#7 cybermgk

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 10:09 AM

Nothing to indicate "arms" refered on to hand held firearms. The British matched on Concord to confiscate canon, ball and powder.
Too long ago courts stole the power to interpret and enforce statutes based on their personal wishes not on the author's meaning and the words common meaning of the time.
There used to be a sharing of power between the three branches of government. Today the supreme court has supreme power. This word be ok if they did not steal legislative power.

 

 

The private ownership of canons has always been my response to the musket argument. And just as a modern rifle has evolved with technology, so has modern artillery. If one can afford modern artillery one should be able to own modern artillery.

Can you imagine an open carry march with trucks towing privately owned howitzers?
The global internet, a smart phone, and social media remain more dangerous.

The simplest argument, is it doesn't matter if they didn't envision them.

 

What they DID envision was the ultimate need for the 'people' to be the final 'check' on all 3 branches of government AND a standing, governmentally controlled military, under said governments control.

 

The ONLY way that that is feasible, is if the 'people' are able to be armed with all arms, of the times, thus the 'shall not be infringed' clause.  One can not be that check, with muskets, or bolt action, or just x and Y, if the government has so much more.  Point of fact, imho, there should be no limitations on ACTUAL 'Assault Weapons' with actual select fire.

 

Now, the above is the 'absolutist' standpoint.  We also have a changed world, with additional threats (terrorism) and a much larger society.  So, it is easy, to see restrictions against criminals, etc.  After all in the FFers day, any convicted criminal of a crime sufficient to keep arms out of the convict's hands was punishable by hanging.  So, problem solved.  Not the case today.

 

All, 'arguments' they use, about not foreseeing lethality, blah, blah, stems from an erroneous starting point, that the 2nd Amendment is NOT the above, but for hunting, or personal protection from bad guys only, or a government supplied 'militia'.


Edited by cybermgk, 07 May 2018 - 10:15 AM.

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#8 InterestedBystander

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Posted 07 May 2018 - 11:42 AM

As mentioned above regarding cellphones, internet and liberals equals this;
https://www.blogger....08579065&bpli=1


Wilding Season Opens
And the media gives it exactly ZERO coverage. But Crime in Wrigleyville and Boystown does:
At least four people were injured and two arrests were made after a large group of teenagers went wild near Chicago’s historic Water Tower on Saturday evening, according to police and witnesses.

Security at the Water Tower Place shopping mall reported the first sign of trouble around 8:20 p.m. Fifty teenagers were said to be involved in a fight near the mall entrance at 845 North Michigan Avenue.

Police summoned an ambulance for an injured juvenile.

As the shopping mall incident mellowed, sparks flew again less than a block away near the landmark historic water tower and Jane Byrne Plaza.

Fifty "teens" in the initial fight. How many at the other?
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