GWBH Posted August 21, 2018 at 01:40 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 01:40 PM Went to a local dealer's web site a Marion LEO told me about and found this!They will not do firearm transfers for Rock River or Springfield Armory firearms and here's why: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/ Springfield's CEO Dennis Reese said this - pretty lame!http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/daniel-zimmerman/statement-from-springfield-armory-ceo-denny-reese-on-ifma-deal-illinois-anti-gun-legislation/ IMO - Trading Constitutional rights for a dollar bill is about as low as it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted August 21, 2018 at 01:50 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 01:50 PM Old news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiliconSorcerer Posted August 21, 2018 at 01:50 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 01:50 PM Thankfully, and there's not a lot to be thankful with this governor for, he veto's the last dealer licensing and I suspect he will do the same. If he didn't I doubt I would even vote, there would be no difference in the two left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted August 21, 2018 at 01:51 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 01:51 PM There are a lot of people who feel the same way you do. But having said that, this happened over a year ago, SA and RRA disassociated themselves from IFMA, SA in particular expended a lot of time and effort in the meantime to oppose gun control bills in Illinois, and that one vote margin was Senator Tom Rooney who was going to vote for gun control anyway. It wasn't like Rooney was on the fence and IFMA dropping their opposition to the bill swayed his vote. Rooney is an anti-gun RINO. Did dropping the opposition to Gun Dealer Licensing maybe give some other senators some room to vote for the bill? maybe - but subsequently, and in the wake of school shootings, anti-gunners have been able to muster the votes for anti-gun measures despite Springfield Armory's opposition. I think Reese had to have known what was going on, I don't believe him when he pleads ignorance. Some people are willing to let it go since SA has tried to redeem themselves since then, some people are not willing to let it go - ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 21, 2018 at 02:48 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 02:48 PM Thankfully, and there's not a lot to be thankful with this governor for, he veto's the last dealer licensing and I suspect he will do the same. If he didn't I doubt I would even vote, there would be no difference in the two left. He has said in public that he will veto that bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingcreek Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:13 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:13 PM SA and RRA have a long history of supporting the rights of gun owners especially Illinois gun owners. They employ a lot of people in Illinois and contribute to the economy and state and local revenues. Wether they knew about the actions of the lobbyist or not, they have made a public position statement and correction and continue to build excellent products and support our gun rights.Do we serve everyone's best interest more? Or Less? By boycotting them in favor of other manufacturers?Or to put it another way, would we be better off to see them fail?At a time like this, we need every friend and supporter we can get. I know both of them have been politically active and supported pro gun candidates in the past. they realize that's what is good for us is also good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:16 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:16 PM SA and RRA have a long history of supporting the rights of gun owners especially Illinois gun owners. They employ a lot of people in Illinois and contribute to the economy and state and local revenues. Wether they knew about the actions of the lobbyist or not, they have made a public position statement and correction and continue to build excellent products and support our gun rights.Do we serve everyone's best interest more? Or Less? By boycotting them in favor of other manufacturers?Or to put it another way, would we be better off to see them fail?At a time like this, we need every friend and supporter we can get. I know both of them have been politically active and supported pro gun candidates in the past. they realize that's what is good for us is also good for them.There are other makers to choose from besides RRA and SA. My first AR came from RA. I own 3 SA's. It is a real shame when the neighbors become enemies. They did it to themselves. Boycott or not, they aren't going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWBH Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:30 PM Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:30 PM Old news.Sorry - didn't know it had already been covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhouse5 Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:31 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:31 PM I actually don't feel it's old news in the sense that we shouldn't forget.Passage of time and things will blow over is their hope.Perhaps Todd could weigh in on this?I believe true colors were shown and it's going to take quite a bit for me to trust Reese and SA ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raw Power Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:32 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:32 PM SA and RRA have a long history of supporting the rights of gun owners especially Illinois gun owners. They employ a lot of people in Illinois and contribute to the economy and state and local revenues. Wether they knew about the actions of the lobbyist or not, they have made a public position statement and correction and continue to build excellent products and support our gun rights.Do we serve everyone's best interest more? Or Less? By boycotting them in favor of other manufacturers?Or to put it another way, would we be better off to see them fail?At a time like this, we need every friend and supporter we can get. I know both of them have been politically active and supported pro gun candidates in the past. they realize that's what is good for us is also good for them. I wouldn't consider them "friends" when they do backroom deals to get gun control passed. With friends like those, who needs enemies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhouse5 Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:32 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:32 PM Old news.Sorry - didn't know it had already been covered. No, a fresh reminder is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:47 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 03:47 PM I actually don't feel it's old news in the sense that we shouldn't forget.Passage of time and things will blow over is their hope.Perhaps Todd could weigh in on this?I believe true colors were shown and it's going to take quite a bit for me to trust Reese and SA ever again. This was an April 2017 story. They claimed they turned things over to their lobbyist and didnt keep track of what he was doing. RRA went kind of silent by the end of this but SA formed a new lobbying group and have had "boots on the ground" in Springfield along with Todd, Illinois Carry, NRA, ISRA, etc where they have been reported to be helpful and effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhouse5 Posted August 21, 2018 at 04:01 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 04:01 PM I actually don't feel it's old news in the sense that we shouldn't forget.Passage of time and things will blow over is their hope.Perhaps Todd could weigh in on this?I believe true colors were shown and it's going to take quite a bit for me to trust Reese and SA ever again.This was an April 2017 story. They claimed they turned things over to their lobbyist and didnt keep track of what he was doing. RRA went kind of silent by the end of this but SA formed a new lobbying group and have had "boots on the ground" in Springfield along with Todd, Illinois Carry, NRA, ISRA, etc where they have been reported to be helpful and effective. Can a leopard change his spots?Meaning the initial reply by Reese was at best weak sauce.And the cynic in me isn't going to ignore distinct possibility that they are mostly interested in damage control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWBH Posted August 21, 2018 at 07:55 PM Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 07:55 PM Oh crap - look what I started!Ok - we're all in this together... we are "Comrades in Arms" (pun intended) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 21, 2018 at 08:31 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 08:31 PM In my opinion, the biggest gaff here is the perception that SA did nothing until some 5 days after it hit the fan, as if they did not want to interrupt the momentum of the NRA annual meeting and the rollout of the new hardware.They fiddled while the forums lit up and their reputation burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScopeEye Posted August 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Welcome to last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cope Posted August 21, 2018 at 11:30 PM Share Posted August 21, 2018 at 11:30 PM Welcome to the last century. If we hold a grudge against every brand that ever even so slightly hurt our feelings we would all have to become gun grabbing liberals. Every gun company at some point in their history did something evil that hurt the 2A in some way. This is my second favorite whine sessions about gun companies. My first favorite is when people call a brand junk because it had a recall or some failure. Again every gun company has had failures and massive recalls at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet Observer Posted August 22, 2018 at 01:14 AM Share Posted August 22, 2018 at 01:14 AM I agree with cope. Many of these companies have completely different owners, or CEOs, or boards then when some of those poor decisions were made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhouse5 Posted August 22, 2018 at 02:30 AM Share Posted August 22, 2018 at 02:30 AM SA has the same management.This is hardly the last century. This is just last year and their initial response is very telling.At that time many people said "never again will I buy one of their products".I'm not saying never and they have made good moves recently but they are seriously in the time out chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchet Posted August 22, 2018 at 11:58 AM Share Posted August 22, 2018 at 11:58 AM They should be reminded of what happened daily, but they shouldnt be written off. Every friend we can have, we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soylentgreen Posted August 22, 2018 at 04:02 PM Share Posted August 22, 2018 at 04:02 PM It is truly amazing to me when someone agrees to participate in their own extinction in exchange for some short-sighted goal. The state licensing scheme is nothing less than an attempt to purge the sixth most populous state of ALL gun dealers. The law will bankrupt most of the small dealers immediately. Then, the Big Box stores will be subjected to "social pressure" to capitulate and stop selling guns. Oh, yeah....and the carnage in Chicago will continue unabated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 22, 2018 at 05:45 PM Share Posted August 22, 2018 at 05:45 PM Oh, yeah....and the carnage in Chicago will continue unabated.This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango7 Posted August 23, 2018 at 03:07 AM Share Posted August 23, 2018 at 03:07 AM The state licensing scheme is nothing less than an attempt to purge the sixth most populous state of ALL gun dealers. The law will bankrupt most of the small dealers immediately. Then, the Big Box stores will be subjected to "social pressure" to capitulate and stop selling guns. Consider the willingness with which a certain sporting goods chain that aptly bears the nickname for a reproductive organ rolled over when challenged back in the early 2000's, and then again in the 2010's. Oh, yeah....and the carnage in Chicago will continue unabated. While it's used as an excuse for "betterer, strongerer" laws, the people pushing these bills in the suburbs and state capitols don't give a flying utensil about kids in the hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottFM Posted August 23, 2018 at 08:34 AM Share Posted August 23, 2018 at 08:34 AM Consider the willingness with which a certain sporting goods chain that aptly bears the nickname for a reproductive organ rolled over when challenged back in the early 2000's, and then again in the 2010's. Interesting you mention a big box retailer. The bill that Springfield Armory and RRA were supporting via their wholly owned IMRF consultant would have exempted the big box retailers from a lot of the regulation. Essentially driving out the little shops in favour of the big box ones. Then when one of those shops changes their position on gun sales they would have essentially banned guns in Illinois. This is why the actions of the SA and RRA through their lobbyist should never be rewarded or forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted August 23, 2018 at 12:31 PM Share Posted August 23, 2018 at 12:31 PM Consider the willingness with which a certain sporting goods chain that aptly bears the nickname for a reproductive organ rolled over when challenged back in the early 2000's, and then again in the 2010's. Interesting you mention a big box retailer. The bill that Springfield Armory and RRA were supporting via their wholly owned IMRF consultant would have exempted the big box retailers from a lot of the regulation. Essentially driving out the little shops in favour of the big box ones. Then when one of those shops changes their position on gun sales they would have essentially banned guns in Illinois. This is why the actions of the SA and RRA through their lobbyist should never be rewarded or forgiven. Ahhhh.... he's a clever one, that Don Harmon. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikew Posted August 23, 2018 at 06:48 PM Share Posted August 23, 2018 at 06:48 PM The state licensing scheme is nothing less than an attempt to purge the sixth most populous state of ALL gun dealers. The law will bankrupt most of the small dealers immediately. Then, the Big Box stores will be subjected to "social pressure" to capitulate and stop selling guns. The state licensing scheme is an attempt to purge Cook County of a select few stores that happen to sell the overwhelming majority of the firearms. The unintended consequence of the licensing will be that these select few stores will be the only ones left, especially after the big box stores pull out of firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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