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Illinois concealed-carry proposal will resurface in Legislature


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After Heller and McDonald, why would anyone still be advocating that we take two steps backwards and allow Chicago to restrict an individuals protected fundamental right? Preemption is dead, bury it. Right now it's wait and see. Deal with it, I am. What ever is going to happen in the IL legislature this year is going to happen.

 

As far as a suit in Illinois to challenge the bearing of arms outside of the home, I was a big proponent, but not for the right reason. I wanted to 'light the fire' under Madigan, Cullerton, and Quinn to try and speed up the process. Would it have worked? Maybe. Was it the right thing to do, the right time to do it, and the right place for the challenge? No and I understand that now. Those who are challenging the status quo are carefully choosing their battles by picking the time, place, and subject of the challenge very carefully.

 

Hopefully this year the ILGA sees the light and Quinn respects their wishes. If not, take comfort in the fact that very good cases have already been filed and are well on their way to the SCOTUS.

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It is a long story why we have to include Chicago in the bill, it has little to do with McDonald, granted I agree Chicago should be included, but Madagan called the bluff and said ANY carry bill will need the super majority period.

Now we are stuck and needing the super, so sure why not include Chicago..

This was long before the McDonald case.

We need to be honest here and stop making excuses.

Lets face it there is no state where the majority of the people 21 and over carry. I'd bet a poll of Vermont residents or Alaska residents would prove that. So we will probably never get a majority of the people in Chicago to be strong supporters of RTC. There will be those like Otis McDonald that continue to support our cause and aid us greatly. As Todd said about leaving Chicago out, it has been tried before with no gain in legislators support.

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Lets face it there is no state where the majority of the people 21 and over carry. I'd bet a poll of Vermont residents or Alaska residents would prove that. So we will probably never get a majority of the people in Chicago to be strong supporters of RTC. There will be those like Otis McDonald that continue to support our cause and aid us greatly. As Todd said about leaving Chicago out, it has been tried before with no gain in legislators support.

 

That's the beauty of a Republic over a Democracy, where the rights of the individual are protected (by the Constitution) against the whims of the majority.

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Fine, if they really want a super-majority in order for this to pass, winner takes all in this case. Instead of filing multiple CCW Bills, can we cobble one together with pre-emption of Chicago, you know a 'pro-gun' bill package? We got nothing to lose, except our ability to keep ourselves from laughing at Chicago when we pass a CCW Bill that pre-empts them, let's put all our chips on the table for this one.
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It is a long story why we have to include Chicago in the bill, it has little to do with McDonald, granted I agree Chicago should be included, but Madagan called the bluff and said ANY carry bill will need the super majority period.

Now we are stuck and needing the super, so sure why not include Chicago..

This was long before the McDonald case.

We need to be honest here and stop making excuses.

Lets face it there is no state where the majority of the people 21 and over carry. I'd bet a poll of Vermont residents or Alaska residents would prove that. So we will probably never get a majority of the people in Chicago to be strong supporters of RTC. There will be those like Otis McDonald that continue to support our cause and aid us greatly. As Todd said about leaving Chicago out, it has been tried before with no gain in legislators support.

On the subject of legislators support -

 

I do believe that the bill should retain the language "legislators voting against the bill will not be eligible to apply for a permit."

 

Not really a carrot...more of a cattle prod at the other end!

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On the subject of legislators support -

 

I do believe that the bill should retain the language "legislators voting against the bill will not be eligible to apply for a permit."

 

Not really a carrot...more of a cattle prod at the other end!

 

Formal charges for deprivation of liberty seem more appropriate.

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On the subject of legislators support -

 

I do believe that the bill should retain the language "legislators voting against the bill will not be eligible to apply for a permit."

 

Not really a carrot...more of a cattle prod at the other end!

 

Formal charges for deprivation of liberty seem more appropriate.

 

I would LOVE... LOVE... LOVE.. to see a lawsuit filed against every legislator in IL who voted against every RTC bill post-McDonald.

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I would LOVE... LOVE... LOVE.. to see a lawsuit filed against every legislator in IL who voted against every RTC bill post-McDonald.

 

 

Sorry to pop the balloon, but they have immunity. Section 1983 only goes after the enforcers of law, not the ones who voted for it.

 

Yea, I assumed that the law-makers would have a law protecting themselves. No surprises there. Oh well.

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On the subject of legislators support -

 

I do believe that the bill should retain the language "legislators voting against the bill will not be eligible to apply for a permit."

 

Not really a carrot...more of a cattle prod at the other end!

 

Formal charges for deprivation of liberty seem more appropriate.

 

Make sure there is a sever-ability clause. I am sure such a provision would not pass constitutional muster.

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On the subject of legislators support -

 

I do believe that the bill should retain the language "legislators voting against the bill will not be eligible to apply for a permit."

 

Not really a carrot...more of a cattle prod at the other end!

 

Formal charges for deprivation of liberty seem more appropriate.

 

Make sure there is a sever-ability clause. I am sure such a provision would not pass constitutional muster.

 

I wondered about that myself. Maybe it's best to just leave the eligibilty issue out of it.

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guys fighting amongst ourselfs is what they like. I'm sure that the anti"s that troll this site are loving all the aurguments going on here. Lets do this the way that our rights were taken away ,on rule at a time. lets get something passed, anything.then we work from that. lets have our camel's nose under the tent for a change.thats how we lost righrs and thats how we will get them back, in small bits
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guys fighting amongst ourselfs is what they like. I'm sure that the anti"s that troll this site are loving all the aurguments going on here. Lets do this the way that our rights were taken away ,on rule at a time. lets get something passed, anything.then we work from that. lets have our camel's nose under the tent for a change.thats how we lost righrs and thats how we will get them back, in small bits

 

Yep if it's swiftly taken away you can swiftly gain it back. However if in time and by slow operations (hmm where have I heard that?) our rights are stipped away we will have to restore them in time and by slow operations.

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guys fighting amongst ourselfs is what they like. I'm sure that the anti"s that troll this site are loving all the aurguments going on here. Lets do this the way that our rights were taken away ,on rule at a time. lets get something passed, anything.then we work from that. lets have our camel's nose under the tent for a change.thats how we lost righrs and thats how we will get them back, in small bits

 

No arguments from me. I have COMPLETE faith in Todd Vandermyde & the folks that are working on this.

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I am with Buzzard on this; I also have all faith in Todd. Sometimes I have different ideas about how to or what's in it; but when it all comes down to it I support our leaders working on this, Todd, Molly and all the others. Whatever they come up with and they say it is the best they can come up with that will get passed into law I will believe them and support it with all my efforts. Jim.
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Chicago is THE REASON why Illinois doesn't have CCW at this time. WHY do we really care if they opt out or not? The reality is that as long as Chicago is included, the rest of the State is hosed. Leave them to their own means, at their expense. After the rest of the state has CCW, and the resulting drop in crime rate is statisticalized (yeah, I just coined that term) then they will Opt-In. Until then - They deserve to maintain their status quo.

 

I DO see your point... there are probably 11 folks in Chicago that feel the same as we do...... They need to MOVE. Chicago has been the KEY player in denying our Constitutional Rights, to HE-Double-Hockey-Sticks with them. Let them OPT-OUT, and the rest of the state will be able to exercise our CONSTITUTIONALLLY-Enumerated Right to Self-defense. Chicago will belly-up in a few years..... Until then - Leave them behind.

 

 

 

There are one hundred THOUSAND FOID card holders in Chicago, not just 11 people. Unbelievable that we're even having this debate.

 

Does Otis McDonald deserves to have his head kicked in while walking on the street because he happens to live in house that he owns and has already paid for in Chicago? What is this "Chicagoans deserve it" crap? It was Chicagoans who gave you an RKBA right that now applies to the state and local governments now. You should be more thankful that the 4 residents of Chicago, and now numerous handgun permit applicants, are doing their best with what they have. What about Rhonda Ezell, who is disabled and can't exactly leave the city very well since she's disabled and she's in a wheelchair? How about her? What value do you place on the lives of McDonald, Lawson, Orlov, and Ezell? Hmm??

 

I've fought for numerous years for the ideas of what "equal protection" means. I'm currently fighting for that concept in the state of Colorado right now. Todd already told you that carving out Chicago doesn't gain us votes. Chicago anti-gun politicians don't want to deal with carry and be cooped up in just their city without the "stench of legal gun carriers". They want their concept statewide. We need to kill anti-carry laws statewide. The best way to do so at this point is via legislative enactment or that fails one legislative session post-McDonald, I'm sure a court case can be filed. Remember, Iowa went to shall-issue in 2010 because they knew that if they didn't shape up, the chances were high certain lawyer we're all familiar with here would have likely filed against a hapless sheriff. You know all know who he is.

 

Don't be a jerk. Do not leave our brothers in Chicago behind. It is our brothers in Chicago who are doing the heavy lifting in terms of the legal war against gun control in the state of Illinois.

 

Shame on you, Triumph Rider. Shame on you for crapping all over equal protection and fundamental liberties where it matters and counts the most.

 

WOW!! I'm a Jerk? I'M Crapping "all over equal protection and fundamental liberties"? Maybe in your mind. That's your opinion.

However, the citizens of Chicago have been crapping "all over equal protection and fundamental liberties" of the Citizens in this state that don't reside above I-80 for Decades.

Save your insults/personal attacks for someone who actually cares what you think, please. They cheapen your argument, and reflect badly upon yourself.

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Chicago is THE REASON why Illinois doesn't have CCW at this time. WHY do we really care if they opt out or not? The reality is that as long as Chicago is included, the rest of the State is hosed. Leave them to their own means, at their expense. After the rest of the state has CCW, and the resulting drop in crime rate is statisticalized (yeah, I just coined that term) then they will Opt-In. Until then - They deserve to maintain their status quo.

 

I can't say you're a jerk... but Chicago drives the economy of the rest of the state. There are probably more active supporters of CCW in Chicago than there are in the entire rest of the state. It's the most American City in the country (but please don't tell too many folks 'cause we really don't want anyone else to know). Yeah... we have some big problems to dispose of but there isn't any more graft and corruption here than there is in almost any small burg in the rest of Illinois. If you wanna live a quality life in a city anywhere on this planet... Chicago is the place to be. It really is.

 

Give us a bit of a break. We are all gonna get there together. "A house divided... Will not get CCW"

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I'd like to know where this "gunhaters live enorth of I80" thing started from. I really would.

 

Mainly because Chicago is located just North of I-80.

 

Just take a look at the map.

Yes. And it's just South of the Wisconsin border. But I never hear that mentioned.

 

Understand, I'm not picking a fight with you, because many people use the "North of I-80" reference. There's lot's of rural, gun-loving people North of I-80.

Even if East of I-90 was used, that's a bit more accurate, but still not fair to those gun owners that live in that area.

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To All,

It just took me a little over an hour to read every post on this topic. I must say that it was very educational and entertaining. I value everyone's thoughts and comments but one thing remains constant in all the discussions..we are all passionate about our God given rights. The degree of how exactly we want the CCW legislation written is going to never be perfect or anti-gun attorney-proof, but Todd and the people working on the bill will certainly include the most they can and still ensure we get the votes to pass. I'm certainly not involved in the decision making, so my support is simply calling my legislators and telling everyone I know to attend IGOLD this year. I know there is another topic addressing IGOLD but for me it is one of the most important events for our CCW movement in Illinois. The legislators may ignor my phone calls and emails, but they can't avoid what will be on their doorstep March 10th! That's just my small input on this topic.

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I can't say you're a jerk... but Chicago drives the economy of the rest of the state. There are probably more active supporters of CCW in Chicago than there are in the entire rest of the state. It's the most American City in the country (but please don't tell too many folks 'cause we really don't want anyone else to know). Yeah... we have some big problems to dispose of but there isn't any more graft and corruption here than there is in almost any small burg in the rest of Illinois. If you wanna live a quality life in a city anywhere on this planet... Chicago is the place to be. It really is.

Now that is funny! I work in the loop (out of necessity) and I will be the first person to say I can't wait to get on the train each evening for the 40 mile ride back to a higher quality of life.

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I can't say you're a jerk... but Chicago drives the economy of the rest of the state. There are probably more active supporters of CCW in Chicago than there are in the entire rest of the state. It's the most American City in the country (but please don't tell too many folks 'cause we really don't want anyone else to know). Yeah... we have some big problems to dispose of but there isn't any more graft and corruption here than there is in almost any small burg in the rest of Illinois. If you wanna live a quality life in a city anywhere on this planet... Chicago is the place to be. It really is.

Now that is funny! I work in the loop (out of necessity) and I will be the first person to say I can't wait to get on the train each evening for the 40 mile ride back to a higher quality of life.

 

I could never get used to working the evening shift myself.

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i wish you guys can get these thoughts and complaints to your rep or reps that will vote no.

In other words until you have hounded your rep til they know you by name, until you have faxed them until their toner runs out, until you have been to their office until they hide from you, stop complaining here and send those complaints to your rep and governor

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