vito Posted August 10, 2020 at 01:50 PM Share Posted August 10, 2020 at 01:50 PM The hypothetical that usually comes to my mind is: I hear a noise outside of my home. I come out to investigate and see someone has already smashed the window of my car and is attempting to start it so that they can drive it away. I draw my gun and tell him to stop or I will shoot. He stops, raises his hands in the air and starts backing away. It seems that under current law I can really do nothing more than watch him leave and report this to the police, and my insurance company. Similarly, I envision hearing someone breaking a window in an attempt to enter my home, and the burglar sees me approaching with a gun, and backs away from the window, outside of my home, and keeps backing away. Since he clearly is not presenting a threat at that moment, and is not in or about to get in to my home, again I can do nothing legally other than watch him waltz away with a big smile on his face, secure in his knowledge that I cannot shoot him. I almost can imagine how frustrating either of these scenarios would be to actually have happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fife Posted August 10, 2020 at 07:02 PM Share Posted August 10, 2020 at 07:02 PM There's always the third hypothetical that involves owning your own backhoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito Posted August 10, 2020 at 07:21 PM Share Posted August 10, 2020 at 07:21 PM My neighbors would undoubtedly hear the gun shots, then the sound of the backhoe. I need a different plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitter Clinger Posted August 10, 2020 at 08:59 PM Share Posted August 10, 2020 at 08:59 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted August 10, 2020 at 09:57 PM Share Posted August 10, 2020 at 09:57 PM The hypothetical that usually comes to my mind is: ... I draw my gun and tell him to stop or I will shoot. He stops, raises his hands in the air and starts backing away. ... Hypothetically, you started breaking the law when you threatened to use lethal force against a non-lethal crime that wasn't even an attack. Pointing a loaded weapon (or anything the mythical reasonable person would reasonably believe is a loaded weapon) at someone who is not a lethal attacker is assault with a deadly weapon. (Interestingly, that's a misdemeanor in Illinois law. There's probably room there for a legal brandishing argument in some other hypothetical case.) Threatening to shoot establishes intent to kill or seriously injure. Actually shooting is murder (if you kill him, intent having been established, although intent could probably be inferred without the verbal announcement, anyway), attempted murder (if you shoot him, but don't kill him), or at least felony assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmagloo Posted August 10, 2020 at 10:03 PM Share Posted August 10, 2020 at 10:03 PM Where does all that go, when you bring up that shiny object in his hand looked like a gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euler Posted August 10, 2020 at 10:42 PM Share Posted August 10, 2020 at 10:42 PM Where does all that go, when you bring up that shiny object in his hand looked like a gun? Vito's hypothetical had no shiny object in his hand, unless you're suggesting the defender should suddenly remember that he "saw" a shiny object after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmagloo Posted August 11, 2020 at 12:51 AM Share Posted August 11, 2020 at 12:51 AM Well the bad guy had to have some kind of tool to break into the car, that no doubt looks surprisingly like a gun in the dark, that he no doubt raised threatenly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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