Jump to content

ISP has now created a firearms registry


steveTA84

Recommended Posts

HEre is the story bhind FTIP.

 

Illinois was one fo the first states do pas their own background check system. This was being done to head off some of the early versions of the brady bill.

 

The bill was passed as an add on to the FOID act with the idea being that once the check system was implace to repela the FOID card.

 

State Police put the system together and someone got the bright idea to warehouse the data.

 

So they have the date it was called in. the delaer that called it in (an ID number that goes with your account), the type of firearm , handgun, long gun, frame, taser and then the transaction number. I have spent over a decade trying to burn this thing to the ground. But something always gets in the way and now post Aurora I feel it will be next to impossible.

 

 

 

 

I know people who are buying guns off paper in many different ways. And if you ever bought a gun from me in a private sale, I go through my records and burn them when ever one is older than 10 years. When I move to another state I will light them all on fire and if asked I will say I sold it to someone with a FOID card, because that's what I did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heres the big picture: lets say SB107 passes. State police already knows what you have. You dont pay the $25 fee/tax and declare everything that falls under the bill, youll get a knock and a confiscation and be a felon

 

SB337 was the doorway, now the ISP is creating a registry even before SB337 is rolling out

I was thinking the same thing. ISP already has the registry right? Now they are linking it to FOID data and that is the new variable.

 

The problem I see is that the database the ISP has may have very bad data. For instance, I buy an AR from a store. The ISP has a record of that purchase. But then I sell the AR via a personal sale. The ISP does not have a record of that sale, they knock on my door when I justifiably do not pay the registration fee. Multiply that by the hundreds err thousands, err tens of thousands of personal sales that probably have happened. That makes their database a steaming pile of something that smells really bad!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem I see is that the database the ISP has may have very bad data. For instance, I buy an AR from a store. The ISP has a record of that purchase. But then I sell the AR via a personal sale. The ISP does not have a record of that sale

Wouldn't they have a record of the sale from the transaction number you get when you check the buyers FOID on their website? I suppose this is assuming sellers go through that check.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HEre is the story bhind FTIP.

 

Illinois was one fo the first states do pas their own background check system. This was being done to head off some of the early versions of the brady bill.

 

The bill was passed as an add on to the FOID act with the idea being that once the check system was implace to repela the FOID card.

 

State Police put the system together and someone got the bright idea to warehouse the data.

 

So they have the date it was called in. the delaer that called it in (an ID number that goes with your account), the type of firearm , handgun, long gun, frame, taser and then the transaction number. I have spent over a decade trying to burn this thing to the ground. But something always gets in the way and now post Aurora I feel it will be next to impossible.

 

 

 

 

I know people who are buying guns off paper in many different ways. And if you ever bought a gun from me in a private sale, I go through my records and burn them when ever one is older than 10 years. When I move to another state I will light them all on fire and if asked I will say I sold it to someone with a FOID card, because that's what I did.

I applaud you but many here go even beyond the law and ask for address, and all info when all the law calls for is name, dob and foid number.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heres the big picture: lets say SB107 passes. State police already knows what you have. You dont pay the $25 fee/tax and declare everything that falls under the bill, youll get a knock and a confiscation and be a felon

 

SB337 was the doorway, now the ISP is creating a registry even before SB337 is rolling out

 

If this is the plan, the state is going to have to construct a few million more prison cells. I wonder how many "felons" will be killed by police during this confiscation...and how many police will be killed by "felons". This is pure stupidity. And, let me repeat...I WILL NOT REGISTER ANYTHING. End of story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess my thoughts are, if this SB107 passes, any weapon I have that might conflict, I will move out of state, period.

 

I could be mistaken, but I didn't notice any passage that says you have to register weapons you might own OUT of state, correct?

 

As such, if they show up at the door, and they are advised of the location being out of state, that should be the EOD. If they choose to kick the door in and attempt an illegal search, my guess is they would be breaching my Civil Rights.

 

Imho, I don't think they can claim there is probable cause to do a forced warrant search against my word, unless they have some evidence of some sort that the weapon is indeed in the house.

 

Ultimately, meaning - or perhaps questioning, if you tell them at the door the weapon is out of state, are they obligated to go way? Either way, the second that thing gets signed, the weapons are moving, but I just wonder how much leash they will have to force matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HEre is the story bhind FTIP.

 

Illinois was one fo the first states do pas their own background check system. This was being done to head off some of the early versions of the brady bill.

 

The bill was passed as an add on to the FOID act with the idea being that once the check system was implace to repela the FOID card.

 

State Police put the system together and someone got the bright idea to warehouse the data.

 

So they have the date it was called in. the delaer that called it in (an ID number that goes with your account), the type of firearm , handgun, long gun, frame, taser and then the transaction number. I have spent over a decade trying to burn this thing to the ground. But something always gets in the way and now post Aurora I feel it will be next to impossible.

 

 

 

 

I know people who are buying guns off paper in many different ways. And if you ever bought a gun from me in a private sale, I go through my records and burn them when ever one is older than 10 years. When I move to another state I will light them all on fire and if asked I will say I sold it to someone with a FOID card, because that's what I did.

Hopefully that includes all the ones I sold you wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ISP hasn't created anything. They've always kept the FTIP data and are allowed to do so because IL is a Point of Contact state and is allowed to keep the data because there was a state law that allows it.

 

Here's how they can.

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=71321

 

The only thing the ISP is doing, is including some general FTIP data with an individual's FOID revocation notice sent to the local sheriff where the individual resides.

 

Basically gives the locals a general idea of what you may have in your posession.

 

There is no dealer info given or specific transaction identification numbers. The locals won't be able to track down 4473's.

 

The ISP does not know exactly how many firearms you purchased with each FTIP inquiry or the make model or serial number. Only if the transaction was for a handgun, long gun, or both.

 

Todd's tried to explain it and I've tried to explain how it's legal for the ISP to have always kept FTIP data.

 

The ISP is trying to better implement FOID revocations withing their power under what the current law allows them to do.

 

Way better than bad legislation like the amendment to SB44.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The problem I see is that the database the ISP has may have very bad data. For instance, I buy an AR from a store. The ISP has a record of that purchase. But then I sell the AR via a personal sale. The ISP does not have a record of that sale

Wouldn't they have a record of the sale from the transaction number you get when you check the buyers FOID on their website? I suppose this is assuming sellers go through that check.

 

When you run the buyer's FOID number all that you get is a transaction approval. The actual details of the weapon are all recorded between the seller and the buyer and each keeps a record for 10 years. The ISP does not get the details.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ScottFM, on 08 Mar 2019 - 1:12 PM, said:snapback.png

The problem I see is that the database the ISP has may have very bad data. For instance, I buy an AR from a store. The ISP has a record of that purchase. But then I sell the AR via a personal sale. The ISP does not have a record of that sale

 

The ISP has a general idea of what you may have in your possession. Todd called it a "guestimation".

 

In your example above, the ISP doesn't know you purchased an AR. They just know the transaction was for a long gun. You could have purchased several long guns under the same transaction number too. They don't know that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

ScottFM, on 08 Mar 2019 - 1:12 PM, said:snapback.png

The problem I see is that the database the ISP has may have very bad data. For instance, I buy an AR from a store. The ISP has a record of that purchase. But then I sell the AR via a personal sale. The ISP does not have a record of that sale

 

The ISP has a general idea of what you may have in your possession. Todd called it a "guestimation".

 

In your example above, the ISP doesn't know you purchased an AR. They just know the transaction was for a long gun. You could have purchased several long guns under the same transaction number too. They don't know that.

 

 

On the same note the ISP doesn't know if you turned around the next day and sold every firearm you ever purchased privately the next day or turned it in at a no questions asked buyback, as said all they know is that you at one point purchased a firearm, beyond that it's all a guess.

 

Does the FTIP record even have confirmation that the sale was actually completed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are correct. The ISP does not have a real good idea of what one has in their possession. It's a general idea at best.

 

And no, the FTIP data does not show if the transaction was completed, only that an inquiry was made and for what type of firearm.

Isn’t this where gun dealer licensing comes in (allows ISP to inspect 4473’s)?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The problem I see is that the database the ISP has may have very bad data. For instance, I buy an AR from a store. The ISP has a record of that purchase. But then I sell the AR via a personal sale. The ISP does not have a record of that sale

 

Wouldn't they have a record of the sale from the transaction number you get when you check the buyers FOID on their website? I suppose this is assuming sellers go through that check.

Checking this site doesn’t mean there was a transfer.

Some of us check our own cards if something hinkey goes on.

Many of us have checked on a prospect and then didn’t sale the item.

So that who system is over flawed in the beginning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Isn’t this where gun dealer licensing comes in (allows ISP to inspect 4473’s)?

They don't even have the manpower to answer the damn phones... does anyone really think they're gonna go from gun store to gun store checking literally millions of 4473s to try and build a back door registry?

I don't think anyone is particularly worried about the ISP, but more the radicals like Dart who will absolutely go overboard if given half a chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn’t this where gun dealer licensing comes in (allows ISP to inspect 4473’s)?

 

 

I don't know much of the specifics of the dealer bill. I no longer work for a dealer. I have no idea under what condition(s) the ISP would inspect 4473's.

 

My point is in the case of a revocation, the FTIP data being released has nothing identifying the dealer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HEre is the story bhind FTIP.

 

Illinois was one fo the first states do pas their own background check system. This was being done to head off some of the early versions of the brady bill.

 

The bill was passed as an add on to the FOID act with the idea being that once the check system was implace to repela the FOID card.

 

State Police put the system together and someone got the bright idea to warehouse the data.

 

So they have the date it was called in. the delaer that called it in (an ID number that goes with your account), the type of firearm , handgun, long gun, frame, taser and then the transaction number. I have spent over a decade trying to burn this thing to the ground. But something always gets in the way and now post Aurora I feel it will be next to impossible.

 

 

 

 

I know people who are buying guns off paper in many different ways. And if you ever bought a gun from me in a private sale, I go through my records and burn them when ever one is older than 10 years. When I move to another state I will light them all on fire and if asked I will say I sold it to someone with a FOID card, because that's what I did.

Thanks for the history lesson.

Why would Aurora make a difference?

 

From what I understand Missouri failed to update the federal database and the Illinois database checks what? Then to add insult to injury he lied on his paperwork and said he was never convicted of a felony.

How is FOID helping here other than a false sense of security? What if he went out of state and did the same thing and brought the gun back with him?

We know that gangs make out of state purchases.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-guns-gangs-chicago-violence-20180517-story.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...