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Protecting Your Dog From Another Dog.... Legal?


Metlupass2

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So I was walking my 1 year old pup this morning and someone down the block had their dog out in front with them off a leash while they were shoveling. Their dog saw my dog and ran towards us and tried to maul my dog to death. The owner was running from down the street to get his dog. I tried grabbing his dog but couldn't and was able to scoop up my dog like a football. My dog doesn't appear to be hurt but hearing him scream like he did was very unnerving to say the least.

I yelled at the owner as he apologized. I've never seen him or his dog and we live on the same side of the street.

 

 

If there was nobody around to get the dog I would have no other choice. I love dogs and would never want to hurt a dog but of he was trying to kill and hurting my dog I would have shot it.

 

Could I be arrested? I know I could be sued but just wondering if it's legal. I guess one could argue that the dog would have been attacking me and my dog therefore self defense.

 

I've never had this happen with my dog before and he goes for 3 walks a day.

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I often walk my little dog at the nearby community college's bike path which gives me a peaceful 2.5 mile walk. I have often run into a fellow walker who is an elderly gentleman with a mid sized pit bull that he can barely control. Once this pit bull pulled the leash from the man's hands and he charged at me and my small dog. I don't know if the dog was coming to harm me, or my dog, but I pulled out my good sized pocket knife (I can't legally carry a firearm on the school's grounds), scooped up my small dog, and took a defensive stance as the pit bull approached. I yelled loudly for it to stop and it did, about 10 feet from me. The owner retrieved the dog and I told him, in rather forceful language, that he had better be able to control his animal since I was fully prepared to kill his dog without hesitation should it ever come at me again and reach arm's length from me. He gave me a look of fear and anger, but mumbled something about being sorry he lost control of the leash. Ever since that incident I now keep a pointed walking stick with me when going there with my dog but have never had a problem since.

 

I don't know how the law would judge you, but you certainly have the right to try to protect your own dog. If it takes harming the attacking animal to defend your dog and yourself I don't see how you could be considered at fault.

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In IL, dogs are property. You cannot use deadly force to defend property.

 

In other states, that's a different story. Anyhow...

 

I would make the argument that after the attacking dog was done with your dog it would have mauled you causing serious bodily injury up to and including death causing you to be afraid for your life. In that circumstance it would have been legal to shoot the attacking dog.

 

Just remember, no matter the circumstance you've just killed someone's dog and everyone is going to hate you for it and the news will portray you as a monster.

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In IL, dogs are property. You cannot use deadly force to defend property.

 

In other states, that's a different story. Anyhow...

 

I would make the argument that after the attacking dog was done with your dog it would have mauled you causing serious bodily injury up to and including death causing you to be afraid for your life. In that circumstance it would have been legal to shoot the attacking dog.

 

Just remember, no matter the circumstance you've just killed someone's dog and everyone is going to hate you for it and the news will portray you as a monster.

Just in case anyone is confused, "deadly force" is not a term that would apply to shooting a dog, because as solareclipse2 has correctly cited, dogs are property in Illinois. UoF force laws in Illinois apply to force against people.

 

I have, in fact, shot and killed a dog that was actively killing a 2-3 day old calf on our family farm. I reported the incident, and the county sheriff explained that there was no offense committed on my part, as there are laws that allow for such to protect your own property. I knew that before I pulled the trigger, but I reported it so I could make a claim against the owner's insurance. The calf died, and they paid.

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In IL, dogs are property. You cannot use deadly force to defend property.

 

In other states, that's a different story. Anyhow...

 

I would make the argument that after the attacking dog was done with your dog it would have mauled you causing serious bodily injury up to and including death causing you to be afraid for your life. In that circumstance it would have been legal to shoot the attacking dog.

 

Just remember, no matter the circumstance you've just killed someone's dog and everyone is going to hate you for it and the news will portray you as a monster.

 

Just in case anyone is confused, "deadly force" is not a term that would apply to shooting a dog, because as solareclipse2 has correctly cited, dogs are property in Illinois. UoF force laws in Illinois apply to force against people.

I have, in fact, shot and killed a dog that was actively killing a 2-3 day old calf on our family farm. I reported the incident, and the county sheriff explained that there was no offense committed on my part, as there are laws that allow for such to protect your own property. I knew that before I pulled the trigger, but I reported it so I could make a claim against the owner's insurance. The calf died, and they paid.

 

Not, sure, but that may not fly in Evanston, as it would in Effingham. Also private property vs. public

 

 

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In IL, dogs are property. You cannot use deadly force to defend property.

 

In other states, that's a different story. Anyhow...

 

I would make the argument that after the attacking dog was done with your dog it would have mauled you causing serious bodily injury up to and including death causing you to be afraid for your life. In that circumstance it would have been legal to shoot the attacking dog.

 

Just remember, no matter the circumstance you've just killed someone's dog and everyone is going to hate you for it and the news will portray you as a monster.

 

Just in case anyone is confused, "deadly force" is not a term that would apply to shooting a dog, because as solareclipse2 has correctly cited, dogs are property in Illinois. UoF force laws in Illinois apply to force against people.

I have, in fact, shot and killed a dog that was actively killing a 2-3 day old calf on our family farm. I reported the incident, and the county sheriff explained that there was no offense committed on my part, as there are laws that allow for such to protect your own property. I knew that before I pulled the trigger, but I reported it so I could make a claim against the owner's insurance. The calf died, and they paid.

Not, sure, but that may not fly in Evanston, as it would in Effingham. Also private property vs. public

 

 

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Of course there are ordinances that you may run afoul of merely by discharging a firearm in city limits and I'd expect that there is a fair amount more drama to be had in Evanston than anywhere south of 80. But, the property laws would be the same.

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I'm going to add that anybody who thinks they are going to take on a pitbull, German Shepherd, or other powerful dog with a pocket knife is probably going to get hurt pretty bad.

I've been bit by a GSD and it's a bone crushing pain that needs to be experienced to grasp. Just know you don't want to experience it. Pepper spray is a better plan that's far more likely to keep you safe and greatly limit exposure after the fact in dealing with neighbors.

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In IL, dogs are property. You cannot use deadly force to defend property.

 

In other states, that's a different story. Anyhow...

 

I would make the argument that after the attacking dog was done with your dog it would have mauled you causing serious bodily injury up to and including death causing you to be afraid for your life. In that circumstance it would have been legal to shoot the attacking dog.

 

Just remember, no matter the circumstance you've just killed someone's dog and everyone is going to hate you for it and the news will portray you as a monster.

Just in case anyone is confused, "deadly force" is not a term that would apply to shooting a dog, because as solareclipse2 has correctly cited, dogs are property in Illinois. UoF force laws in Illinois apply to force against people.

I have, in fact, shot and killed a dog that was actively killing a 2-3 day old calf on our family farm. I reported the incident, and the county sheriff explained that there was no offense committed on my part, as there are laws that allow for such to protect your own property. I knew that before I pulled the trigger, but I reported it so I could make a claim against the owner's insurance. The calf died, and they paid.

 

Not, sure, but that may not fly in Evanston, as it would in Effingham. Also private property vs. public

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Of course there are ordinances that you may run afoul of merely by discharging a firearm in city limits and I'd expect that there is a fair amount more drama to be had in Evanston than anywhere south of 80. But, the property laws would be the same.

 

Agreed, good point

 

 

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I'm going to add that anybody who thinks they are going to take on a pitbull, German Shepherd, or other powerful dog with a pocket knife is probably going to get hurt pretty bad.

I've been bit by a GSD and it's a bone crushing pain that needs to be experienced to grasp. Just know you don't want to experience it. Pepper spray is a better plan that's far more likely to keep you safe and greatly limit exposure after the fact in dealing with neighbors.

 

I've choked out a 95-pound pitbull, a 130-pound German Shepherd, and a 170-pound mastiff over the years, using rear-naked chokes on the latter two of them and a guillotine choke on the pitbull when it bit onto my pant leg. I've also punched or kicked several dogs in the head and knocked them unconscious. Some of what I've taught in unarmed/non-firearms combat to the security/contractors that I've trained involves defense tactics against canines, both unarmed and with weapons such as knives, tools, and impact implements. That doesn't even address such things as yanking both of the dog's forelimbs in opposite directions, dislocating them and disrupting the dog's ability to locomote.

 

It's not the optimum situation, but if you actually train for it, a human being can take out even a very large dog, even unarmed.

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I'm going to add that anybody who thinks they are going to take on a pitbull, German Shepherd, or other powerful dog with a pocket knife is probably going to get hurt pretty bad.

I've been bit by a GSD and it's a bone crushing pain that needs to be experienced to grasp. Just know you don't want to experience it. Pepper spray is a better plan that's far more likely to keep you safe and greatly limit exposure after the fact in dealing with neighbors.

 

I've choked out a 95-pound pitbull, a 130-pound German Shepherd, and a 170-pound mastiff over the years, using rear-naked chokes on the latter two of them and a guillotine choke on the pitbull when it bit onto my pant leg. I've also punched or kicked several dogs in the head and knocked them unconscious. Some of what I've taught in unarmed/non-firearms combat to the security/contractors that I've trained involves defense tactics against canines, both unarmed and with weapons such as knives, tools, and impact implements. That doesn't even address such things as yanking both of the dog's forelimbs in opposite directions, dislocating them and disrupting the dog's ability to locomote.

 

It's not the optimum situation, but if you actually train for it, a human being can take out even a very large dog, even unarmed.

Perhaps my use of the near absolute "anybody" was referring to people who don't moonlight as Batman. Certainly anybody who trains to do something also is aware of the danger posed by those things they training to combat, and should realize that the average "anybody" is very very likely to get badly hurt taking on a dog. I appreciate your service and sacrifice to the nation, your continuing work helping victims, and 2nd advocacy, but on occasions such as this one I sense that you're unaware of who might read your exploits and undeservingly adopt your can do attitude.
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Don't care! If my "puppy" is with me I will pick him up so an attacking dog will have to come through me. I will then shoot the dog for attacking me. Yes I have taken this approach before in this situation but it has never came to me being attacked, and hopefully it will never happen. Jim.

 

This^

 

Totally moots the defense of personal property issue.

 

 

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You cannot shoot to protect your dog, but can shoot to protect yourself. If you ever had to shoot, you would have to be able to articulate why you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from the offending dog. Assuming you are right next to your dog, that would likely be a reasonable defense... (of course every situation is different.)

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You cannot shoot to protect your dog, but can shoot to protect yourself. If you ever had to shoot, you would have to be able to articulate why you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from the offending dog. Assuming you are right next to your dog, that would likely be a reasonable defense... (of course every situation is different.)

I disagree with this.

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You cannot shoot to protect your dog, but can shoot to protect yourself. If you ever had to shoot, you would have to be able to articulate why you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from the offending dog. Assuming you are right next to your dog, that would likely be a reasonable defense... (of course every situation is different.)

I disagree with this.

 

 

To which part do you disagree?

Legally, dogs are property. You'd have a hard time arguing 'lethal force" needed to protect property. The exceptions to this are very limited and risky.

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You cannot shoot to protect your dog, but can shoot to protect yourself. If you ever had to shoot, you would have to be able to articulate why you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from the offending dog. Assuming you are right next to your dog, that would likely be a reasonable defense... (of course every situation is different.)

 

 

I disagree with this.

 

 

 

 

To which part do you disagree?

Legally, dogs are property. You'd have a hard time arguing 'lethal force" needed to protect property. The exceptions to this are very limited and risky.

"Lethal force" applies to force used against another person, not to force used against another's property that is attacking your property.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

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You cannot shoot to protect your dog, but can shoot to protect yourself. If you ever had to shoot, you would have to be able to articulate why you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from the offending dog. Assuming you are right next to your dog, that would likely be a reasonable defense... (of course every situation is different.)

 

 

I disagree with this.

 

 

 

 

To which part do you disagree?

Legally, dogs are property. You'd have a hard time arguing 'lethal force" needed to protect property. The exceptions to this are very limited and risky.

Sorry, let me clarify. I do not agree with the application of the use of force/defense of property statute to justify "use of lethal force" against a dog, aka property under Illinois law. I do believe that certain conditions must be met, but the standard is not so high as the use of force against a person.

 

ETA: I'm assuming that you were referring to shooting the dog, not the owner.

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You cannot shoot to protect your dog, but can shoot to protect yourself. If you ever had to shoot, you would have to be able to articulate why you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from the offending dog. Assuming you are right next to your dog, that would likely be a reasonable defense... (of course every situation is different.)

 

 

I disagree with this.

 

 

 

 

To which part do you disagree?

Legally, dogs are property. You'd have a hard time arguing 'lethal force" needed to protect property. The exceptions to this are very limited and risky.

"Lethal force" applies to force used against another person, not to force used against another's property that is attacking your property.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

So would you expect to be charged with destruction of property for killing the dog?

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You cannot shoot to protect your dog, but can shoot to protect yourself. If you ever had to shoot, you would have to be able to articulate why you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from the offending dog. Assuming you are right next to your dog, that would likely be a reasonable defense... (of course every situation is different.)

I disagree with this.

 

 

To which part do you disagree?

Legally, dogs are property. You'd have a hard time arguing 'lethal force" needed to protect property. The exceptions to this are very limited and risky.

 

"Lethal force" applies to force used against another person, not to force used against another's property that is attacking your property.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

So would you expect to be charged with destruction of property for killing the dog?

Discharge of a firearm within city/village limits and cruelty to animals, assuming law enforcement or the courts deem your actions unjustified. If they find your actions justified, I'd say no charges at all.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

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You cannot shoot to protect your dog, but can shoot to protect yourself. If you ever had to shoot, you would have to be able to articulate why you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from the offending dog. Assuming you are right next to your dog, that would likely be a reasonable defense... (of course every situation is different.)

 

 

I disagree with this.

 

 

 

 

To which part do you disagree?

Legally, dogs are property. You'd have a hard time arguing 'lethal force" needed to protect property. The exceptions to this are very limited and risky.

"Lethal force" applies to force used against another person, not to force used against another's property that is attacking your property.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

So would you expect to be charged with destruction of property for killing the dog?

 

 

That too. But the worrisome one would be regarding reckless discharge of a firearm. Unless you're in a very rural area on private property, there are lots of rules regarding discharging a firearm. Self-defense law specifically trumps them, but if the scenario doesn't qualify for self defense, it would be hard to use that as a defense.

 

I agree that it would be different (and less serious) statutes than shooting a person. But I would suspect someone who shoots a dog and can't justify it under protecting themselves or another person from dog attack would be in some legal trouble. If you're on your own private property in an unincorporated area you may be fine, but less so walking down a sidewalk in the 'burbs...

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I'm going to add that anybody who thinks they are going to take on a pitbull, German Shepherd, or other powerful dog with a pocket knife is probably going to get hurt pretty bad.

I've been bit by a GSD and it's a bone crushing pain that needs to be experienced to grasp. Just know you don't want to experience it. Pepper spray is a better plan that's far more likely to keep you safe and greatly limit exposure after the fact in dealing with neighbors.

I've choked out a 95-pound pitbull, a 130-pound German Shepherd, and a 170-pound mastiff over the years, using rear-naked chokes on the latter two of them and a guillotine choke on the pitbull when it bit onto my pant leg. I've also punched or kicked several dogs in the head and knocked them unconscious. Some of what I've taught in unarmed/non-firearms combat to the security/contractors that I've trained involves defense tactics against canines, both unarmed and with weapons such as knives, tools, and impact implements. That doesn't even address such things as yanking both of the dog's forelimbs in opposite directions, dislocating them and disrupting the dog's ability to locomote.

 

It's not the optimum situation, but if you actually train for it, a human being can take out even a very large dog, even unarmed.

Perhaps my use of the near absolute "anybody" was referring to people who don't moonlight as Batman. Certainly anybody who trains to do something also is aware of the danger posed by those things they training to combat, and should realize that the average "anybody" is very very likely to get badly hurt taking on a dog. I appreciate your service and sacrifice to the nation, your continuing work helping victims, and 2nd advocacy, but on occasions such as this one I sense that you're unaware of who might read your exploits and undeservingly adopt your can do attitude.

 

 

I also teach these kind of self-defense techniques to "regular" people, as well, because it's better to have at least some knowledge and background that one might be able to employ as a last-ditch effort to protect themselves or save their own lives. After all, it's generally not big, buff, dominant men who get attacked by dogs, but rather smaller people who are more like "prey" for an aggressive dog. I've had several of my trainees who are not security folk, almost all of whom are female-type folk, use what I taught them to at least restrain attacking dogs and avoid or reduce the harm that they otherwise might have had inflicted on themselves by the dogs. A 120-pound girl I taught jumped on the back of a 90-pound Rottweiler that went after her little nephew and put the thing to sleep with a RNC. I saw the video and it was crazy; granted, she was bucked all around by the dog, which did initially bite her on the forearm and chew her up a bit, but there is no doubt that she saved the kid's life.

 

It doesn't take trying to be Batman to be heroic; it just takes someone who learned enough that they can be of help instead of standing helplessly while something tragic happens.

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You cannot shoot to protect your dog, but can shoot to protect yourself. If you ever had to shoot, you would have to be able to articulate why you had a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury from the offending dog. Assuming you are right next to your dog, that would likely be a reasonable defense... (of course every situation is different.)

I disagree with this.

 

 

To which part do you disagree?

Legally, dogs are property. You'd have a hard time arguing 'lethal force" needed to protect property. The exceptions to this are very limited and risky.

 

"Lethal force" applies to force used against another person, not to force used against another's property that is attacking your property.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

So would you expect to be charged with destruction of property for killing the dog?

 

 

 

 

That too. But the worrisome one would be regarding reckless discharge of a firearm. Unless you're in a very rural area on private property, there are lots of rules regarding discharging a firearm. Self-defense law specifically trumps them, but if the scenario doesn't qualify for self defense, it would be hard to use that as a defense.

 

I agree that it would be different (and less serious) statutes than shooting a person. But I would suspect someone who shoots a dog and can't justify it under protecting themselves or another person from dog attack would be in some legal trouble. If you're on your own private property in an unincorporated area you may be fine, but less so walking down a sidewalk in the 'burbs...

This I agree with. There are many laws that may be broken if a dog is shot, and those laws have some pretty significant penalties.

 

I just don't think it's an automatic crime to shoot a dog that may be ruled "dangerous" or "vicious" even after the fact.

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