My company says " no guns in your vehicles "

[1320]

I am in ILLINOIS

 

 

I work for a fairly large 20000+ employees in the US and they recently put up the NO GUN signs up. Now they are saying that ONLY IF you are a CCW holder and you allow HR to have a copy of your card on file WILL YOU BE ALLOWED to have your weapon in your car.

 

Does this seem right?

 

I know its " private property " but can they make up whatever rules they want?

[lilguy]

No one gets to copy my permit, they may use it against you at a future date. It will become a permanent part to your employment record. Their private property, their rules you take a chance either way.

[NukemJim]

"Does this seem right?"

 

IANAL

 

From my untrained legal mind it seems like it is probably legal. Can't thing of anything in the FCCA that forbids it and since it is their private property it is their rules under the law.

 

Do not like it at all.

 

On the other hand without the FCCA that has been passed you would not have ANY legal right to have a firearm in your car at your employers parking lot.

 

On other states that have CCW many employers prohibit firearms in parking lots. In Illinois, until the FCCA forced them to allow permit holders to do so. (Once again a BIG THANKS to Molly, Todd and all who helped) many employers if not most had a no gun/weapon policy in place for company property.

 

Since it is only the FCCA that forces them to allow it I can understand their documenting that you have one. Again I don't LIKE it but that is irrelevant.

 

NukemJim

[GTX63]

You may not like it, but it is "House Rules".

 

I cannot tell you what you should do, but I know how I would handle it.

[III]

Legal for them to require a copy.... Yes

 

Legal for you to ignore..... Yes

 

Are you at risk of termination for not complying if caught..... Yes

 

 

You are not required to show your CCL to anyone but a law enforcement officer when asked..... So, Concealed is concealed.... But be ready to own up to the consequences if your employer discovers you have a weapon on their property without following their policy.

 

[gangrel]

 

Since it is only the FCCA that forces them to allow it I can understand their documenting that you have one. Again I don't LIKE it but that is irrelevant.

The FCCA didn't "force" employers to "allow" anything. They can have a policy to not allow any firearms in vehicles on their property if they choose. IF you violate that policy and IF they somehow manage to catch you doing it, they CAN terminate your employment over violating the policy. What they CAN'T do is have you prosecuted for it, as violating a company policy against having firearms in your vehicle on company property is NOT a violation of any law, including the FCCA.

[MJB]

I guess I'll be Captain Obvious and state that they will never know.

[WtJen]

My company says a lot of things.

[sctman800]

The company I retired from in March 2013 had a no guns policy for a long time. They now have a similar policy to this, don't know if they want a copy or just notified but people I know that are still there are good with it. Jim.

[domin8]

Is nobody going to look at the actual law? You can keep a firearm in your car on their property. The only place you can't is federal property, such as military bases and nuclear facilities. Iirc, it is 430 ILCS 66/65 (.

 

( Notwithstanding subsections (a), (a-5), and (a-10) of this Section except under paragraph (22) or (23) of subsection (a), any licensee prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm into the parking area of a prohibited location specified in subsection (a), (a-5), or (a-10) of this Section shall be permitted to carry a concealed firearm on or about his or her person within a vehicle into the parking area and may store a firearm or ammunition concealed in a case within a locked vehicle or locked container out of plain view within the vehicle in the parking area. A licensee may carry a concealed firearm in the immediate area surrounding his or her vehicle within a prohibited parking lot area only for the limited purpose of storing or retrieving a firearm within the vehicle's trunk, provided the licensee ensures the concealed firearm is unloaded prior to exiting the vehicle. For purposes of this subsection, "case" includes a glove compartment or console that completely encloses the concealed firearm or ammunition, the trunk of the vehicle, or a firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container.

For matters pertaining to your employment, though, iirc, Illinois is an At Will Employment state. They could just terminate you without giving you a reason, unless you are Union and your Union agreement with that employer states otherwise. The choice is yours to make. Just be ready to accept the consequences.

 

"The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. The hard part is doing it." -Norman Schwarzkopf

[Drylok]

The fcca does not force employers to allow ccw folks to store their guns in the vehicle. It simply says its legal to do so.

[matkinson]

I am not an attorney and I don't play one on the Internet. It's pretty clear that a CCL holder may store a handgun in a locked car (or in a locked container in a car) in any non-Federal "no gun" zone in Illinois. It seems extremely unlikely that failure to comply with a company rule like this one could cause a CCL holder to face any criminal charges.

 

If you are an "at-will" employee you can be terminated for any reason that isn't illegal. There's a good summary of wrongful termination at http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/wrongful-termination-was-firing-illegal-32282.html .

 

For myself, I would not provide an employer with a copy of my CCL, but I would also seriously consider looking for a new employer.

[lilguy]

I was a union member for decades. Contract stipulated that bringing weapons to work was grounds for dismissal without recourse. I got a guy canned for waving a knife in a coworkers face 20 years ago. My union lodge offers CCW classes now but the weapons at work prohibition still stands. We have remote parking and we just leave it alone. Each to his own.

[Dr. Rat]

Seems like an anti company is offering you a means to keep your firearm stored in your car on their property without the possibility of being terminated. What's not to like?

[RoadyRunner]

What annoys me is this change to FOID at the same time CCW was passed:

 

(430 ILCS 65/13.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-13.1) Sec. 13.1. Preemption. (a) Except as otherwise provided in the Firearm Concealed Carry Act and subsections ( and © of this Section, the provisions of any ordinance enacted by any municipality which requires registration or imposes greater restrictions or limitations on the acquisition, possession and transfer of firearms than are imposed by this Act, are not invalidated or affected by this Act. ( Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, the regulation, licensing, possession, and registration of handguns and ammunition for a handgun, and the transportation of any firearm and ammunition by a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act are exclusive powers and functions of this State. Any ordinance or regulation, or portion of that ordinance or regulation, enacted on or before the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly that purports to impose regulations or restrictions on a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act in a manner that is inconsistent with this Act, on the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly, shall be invalid in its application to a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act.

Someone show me where in Law a company is allowed to regulate the mere possession of firearms by holders of a valid FOID - even on its own property? I would think that "Exclusive powers and functions of the State" takes the right to regulate away from everyone - Home Rule as well as private businesses and employers.Now, Illinois is also an 'at will' state. Meaning an employer can simply decide it does not want to employ anyone that may possess a firearm.

[G29SF]

What annoys me is this change to FOID at the same time CCW was passed:

 

(430 ILCS 65/13.1) (from Ch. 38, par. 83-13.1)

Sec. 13.1. Preemption.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in the Firearm Concealed Carry Act and subsections ( and © of this Section, the provisions of any ordinance enacted by any municipality which requires registration or imposes greater restrictions or limitations on the acquisition, possession and transfer of firearms than are imposed by this Act, are not invalidated or affected by this Act.

( Notwithstanding subsection (a) of this Section, the regulation, licensing, possession, and registration of handguns and ammunition for a handgun, and the transportation of any firearm and ammunition by a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act are exclusive powers and functions of this State. Any ordinance or regulation, or portion of that ordinance or regulation, enacted on or before the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly that purports to impose regulations or restrictions on a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act in a manner that is inconsistent with this Act, on the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 98th General Assembly, shall be invalid in its application to a holder of a valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card issued by the Department of State Police under this Act.

 

 

Someone show me where in Law a company is allowed to regulate the mere possession of firearms by holders of a valid FOID - even on its own property? I would think that "Exclusive powers and functions of the State" takes the right to regulate away from everyone - Home Rule as well as private businesses and employers.

 

Now, Illinois is also an 'at will' state. Meaning an employer can simply decide it does not want to employ anyone that may possess a firearm.

 

 

A company can have any policy they want a** long as it isn't illegal. Prohibiting firearms on private property is not illegal.

 

Without a law prohibiting employers from doing this, allows them to do this.

[tkroenlein]

I emailed the Illinois Department of Labor and asked if an employer could prohibit a CCL holder from storing a firearm in accordance with the Act. They suggested that I contact the Illinois State Police.

[Elmer Fudd]

I emailed the Illinois Department of Labor and asked if an employer could prohibit a CCL holder from storing a firearm in accordance with the Act. They suggested that I contact the Illinois State Police.

And this is news?

[Jatwood29]

I think that my car is "MY" property. I respect the decisions if a place does not want guns on "their" property. But as long as it stays in my car, I feel it is on my property. It is semantics and I accept the possible outcomes. I also understand that working in an "at will" state you could be fired over a whole host of things. So I do what i have to and dont worry about the what if's,

[POAT54]

Can you store your CCL in your vehicle. ( except on Federal property)

Company can make any policy they want. i.e. Women may not wear open toed shoes in office.(also applies to men)

You must agree to the policy when you are hired.

Searching your property (vehicle) requires your consent or probable cause? Why would you consent to a search?

 

ETA

Read the Privacy at work act in employment law. Does Not have anything to do with search, but I think it would apply to copies of CCL.

[G29SF]

Can you store your CCL in your vehicle. ( except on Federal property)

Company can make any policy they want. i.e. Women may not wear open toed shoes in office.(also applies to men)

You must agree to the policy when you are hired.

Searching your property (vehicle) requires your consent or probable cause? Why would you consent to a search?

 

You don't have to consent to search. However, the places I have worked would fire you if you they wanted to search your vehicle (on their property) and you refused.

 

I can relate to those who feel they should be able to store a firearm in their vehicle (and agree with them). But the law is on the employer's/property-owner's side. In the end, they can fire you if they want. So the choice then becomes, is having a firearm in your vehicle worth the risk of losing your job? A lot of factors go into this decision. The type of job you have, income level, ability to find another job, references for next job, being black-balled in the community (community being your career field), etc. , etc., etc.

 

For me and my wife, if firearms are not allowed on employer property (or any place we may travel during the course of our work-day), I leave them at home.

[POAT54]

 

 

You don't have to consent to search. However, the places I have worked would fire you if you they wanted to search your vehicle (on their property) and you refused.

 

I can relate to those who feel they should be able to store a firearm in their vehicle (and agree with them). But the law is on the employer's/property-owner's side. In the end, they can fire you if they want. So the choice then becomes, is having a firearm in your vehicle worth the risk of losing your job? A lot of factors go into this decision. The type of job you have, income level, ability to find another job, references for next job, being black-balled in the community (community being your career field), etc. , etc., etc.

 

For me and my wife, if firearms are not allowed on employer property (or any place we may travel during the course of our work-day), I leave them at home.

 

Did you agree before your being hired to consent of search of your personal property?

In my experience they search your property, you're fired. I worked for a large company they had all sorts of rules and would make new ones as needed.

I am not speaking to anyone's choice to leave your CCL at home. That is your choice and right to decide. You know that cooler with a six pack for after the soccer game after work? Look up the topic "Is there anything in your car I should know about?"

[bcook619]

Seems like an anti company is offering you a means to keep your firearm stored in your car on their property without the possibility of being terminated. What's not to like?

+1. Agreed

[Dr. Rat]

 

Can you store your CCL in your vehicle. ( except on Federal property)

Company can make any policy they want. i.e. Women may not wear open toed shoes in office.(also applies to men)

You must agree to the policy when you are hired.

Searching your property (vehicle) requires your consent or probable cause? Why would you consent to a search?

 

You don't have to consent to search. However, the places I have worked would fire you if you they wanted to search your vehicle (on their property) and you refused.

 

I can relate to those who feel they should be able to store a firearm in their vehicle (and agree with them). But the law is on the employer's/property-owner's side. In the end, they can fire you if they want. So the choice then becomes, is having a firearm in your vehicle worth the risk of losing your job? A lot of factors go into this decision. The type of job you have, income level, ability to find another job, references for next job, being black-balled in the community (community being your career field), etc. , etc., etc.

 

For me and my wife, if firearms are not allowed on employer property (or any place we may travel during the course of our work-day), I leave them at home.

 

 

I agree. I think being fired for "bringing a prohibited firearm onto company property" would make finding another position a wee bit difficult.

[RoadyRunner]

Prohibiting firearms on private property is not illegal.

 

Without a law prohibiting employers from doing this, allows them to do this.

 

My contention with the FOID preemption language is that State Law says that only the State may regulate possession by those with a valid FOID card, there is no 'Except on private property' or 'Except by employers' etc.

 

Note, I said possession meaning possession in accordance with the FOID act. This is not about carry.

 

Preemption stated another way. It is against the law for any entity other than the State to regulate possession of a handgun by the holder of a valid FOID card, except as otherwise provided in Law. And (as far as I can tell), there is no other provision giving employers permission to regulate this.

[G29SF]

 

Prohibiting firearms on private property is not illegal.

 

Without a law prohibiting employers from doing this, allows them to do this.

My contention with the FOID preemption language is that State Law says that only the State may regulate possession by those with a valid FOID card, there is no 'Except on private property' or 'Except by employers' etc.

 

Note, I said possession meaning possession in accordance with the FOID act. This is not about carry.

 

Preemption stated another way. It is against the law for any entity other than the State to regulate possession of a handgun by the holder of a valid FOID card, except as otherwise provided in Law. And (as far as I can tell), there is no other provision giving employers permission to regulate this.

 

 

Good luck with that. If your employer has a policy prohibiting firearms on their property, they can fire you if you bring firearms on their property. After your are fired, you are free to bring a law-suit against them. Good luck in winning (you wont). Good luck finding a new job. All potential employers will know you are a "problem employee" who files law-suits against companies because you don't like following their policies. If you do manage to win, you better win BIG... because you will have a difficult time finding a job (see my previous sentence).

[11ram06daytona]

Just remember you can be fired for any reason in IL, as long as it's not for age, race, ect....

 

As for any large company they have their ducks in a row when it comes to releasing someone.

 

It's simple. If you are going to keep a gun in your car when it's against your company policy be smart about it. Don't talk about guns at work. No one should know you are a gun guy, nor know you are a CCW holder. Have it hidden before you get to work and don't holster up until after you leave work. Don't give your employer a reason to search your vehicle. Chances are if there isn't a reason they don't do random checks of cars.

[gangrel]

 

Prohibiting firearms on private property is not illegal.

 

Without a law prohibiting employers from doing this, allows them to do this.

My contention with the FOID preemption language is that State Law says that only the State may regulate possession by those with a valid FOID card, there is no 'Except on private property' or 'Except by employers' etc.

 

Note, I said possession meaning possession in accordance with the FOID act. This is not about carry.

 

Preemption stated another way. It is against the law for any entity other than the State to regulate possession of a handgun by the holder of a valid FOID card, except as otherwise provided in Law. And (as far as I can tell), there is no other provision giving employers permission to regulate this.

This is not about the FCCA or any other firearms law. Preemption applies to government entities, NOT private enterprises. A policy to prohibit firearms in employee cars on company lots has nothing to do with preemption and everything to do with private property rights and employment law. Violation of said policy will not result in a Class B or Class A misdemeanor or suspension or revocation of your FCCL. It can, however, lead to termination of your employment. Fair? Nope. Life isn't fair. Changing this would require changes to at-will employment law in Illinois.

[Tango7]

 

I emailed the Illinois Department of Labor and asked if an employer could prohibit a CCL holder from storing a firearm in accordance with the Act. They suggested that I contact the Illinois State Police.

 

And this is news?

So the ISP can tell you they're not qualified to offer a legal opinion... Even though their appointee puppets were more than happy to offer speculations during the hearings on the bill...

[RoadyRunner]

@G24SF I realize all the hesitation, and the fact this is an at will state, what I am looking for though is the specific statute that allows an employer to regulate something that the State has said only it has the power to regulate.

 

You say a lawsuit would not be won. Certainly a valid opinion. I'm looking for the statute that backs that statement up though and escalates the opinion to a fact.