Legislative Update - 4/28/2017

[mqqn]

Thanks Valinda - Unfortunate news.

 

I posted the following on the Springfield Armory facebook page.

 

 

Very disappointed in Springfield Armory throwing Illinois Gun Dealers under the bus by withdrawing their opposition to Senator Harmon's Gun Dealer Licensing Bill SB1657. I will sadly no longer recommend Springfield Arms or Rock River Arms to my many students until these two members of the IFMA again support the Gun Dealers of Illinois.

 

 

I want to be polite but firm.

 

Again - unfortunate news.

 

best

 

mqqn

[BradS]

 

I think I'll hold off on any knee jerk hysterics reaction.

Something smells off to me.

The coincidental timing with the NRA show currently going on in Atlanta pegs my raised eyebrow meter:

Which kinda begs the question, ASSuming these Truth About Guns bloggers are NRA members and are so big in the gun media business, then they would have already been at the NRA show and they could have ambushed...I mean asked some representative from SA and RRA in person what their stance is on that bill.

That probably would have been like an ethical journalist kinda thing to do.

But I guess they would rather have the clicks and stir up a bunch of crap to get the rumor mongering going at the NRA show instead.

 

 

It was announced in committee and during the floor debate. Jay Keller's witness slip changing the manufacturers to neutral is posted here.

I think I'll still wait for a statement from RRA and SA...before I get my panties in a bunch.

 

What were the specific details of this carve out?

 

I read somewhere that us "simple civilians" would be limited to 9 gun transfers per year.

 

And also read somewhere else that the intent behind the 9 gun limit was so that when grandpa dies, his guns would be limited as to which heirs they could go to.

 

So in theory, if son#1 has already bought 9 guns that year, he doesn't get to inherit any of grandpa's guns.

 

That has me wondering now.

 

Is that a thing now? Is that an actual law now where firearms from a deceased have to get a 4473 filled out on them before an heir can take possession of them?

 

If so, that is news to me.

[mauserme]

I think I'll still wait for a statement from RRA and SA...before I get my panties in a bunch.

 

What were the specific details of this carve out?

 

I read somewhere that us "simple civilians" would be limited to 9 gun transfers per year.

 

And also read somewhere else that the intent behind the 9 gun limit was so that when grandpa dies, his guns would be limited as to which heirs they could go to.

 

So in theory, if son#1 has already bought 9 guns that year, he doesn't get to inherit any of grandpa's guns.

 

That has me wondering now.

 

Is that a thing now? Is that an actual law now where firearms from a deceased have to get a 4473 filled out on them before an heir can take possession of them?

 

If so, that is news to me.

No, it isn't a thing now because it hasn't passed the House or been signed by the Governor. Those steps are potentially ahead of us.

 

But that thing you read about the intent being to limit the distribution of grandpa's guns has it backwards. There is an exemption for transfers to immediate family members as defined in 730 ILCS 5/3-2.7-10. This definition includes grandparents/grandchildren.

 

Details of the manufacturers exemption is that the original language included manufacturers in the licensing scheme. They opposed that. After they were removed from the licensing requirement they changed their position to neutral. It was a deal the lobbyist claiming to represent them negotiated. That isn't in question. Some question (myself included) if the manufactures were aware of what was going on - an exemption negotiated for them while leaving their business partners and customers swinging in the breeze. So I agree that we ought to hear their side of things.

[DD123]

I've always wondered why manufacturers haven't banded together and supported gun owners in the state they operate in.

 

For example, in this instance I think if all of the Illinois firearm manufacturers banded together, figured out how many jobs they've created here, how much tax revenue the state receives from them along with each person that works for them, and gives the big F U to our politicians and threatens to leave the state and take all those jobs and tax revenue with them, what would the states reaction be?

 

I don't know what those numbers are, but I do recall that New Jersey had one guy leave the state, and a significant amount of the states tax revenue came from him, so when he left they began freaking out at the loss of revenue. If I recall correctly, he was some big shot mutual fund guy or something along those lines.

 

Illinois being in the financial shape it's in, which is basically like morbid obesity, seems to be ripe for a threat along the lines I've outlined above. There are other states that would welcome these manufacturers with open arms, and attractive tax incentives.

 

It's not like businesses are flocking to open up shop in Illinois lol.

[RacerDave6]

The lefties don't care, and would be happy if the firearm and ammo manufacturers left the state.

[DD123]

The lefties don't care, and would be happy if the firearm and ammo manufacturers left the state.

They'll care if 20% of their tax revenue disappears. That's why I mentioned that they should calculate what the state stands to lose. Hard numbers are tough to ignore.

 

ETA: this is the article I referenced above. This guy moved and "it" hit the fan for their state lol. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/business/one-top-taxpayer-moved-and-new-jersey-shuddered.html

[InterestedBystander]

I could be wrong, but I thought they tried that with Magpul in CO when passing their anti legsiation and CO just said seeya? Of course, CO has MJ now so maybe they just dont care :-)

[RacerDave6]

If people want to support another Illinois manufacturer that didn't bend over and take it from an Oak Park politician, Lewis Machine & Tool makes some good stuff, albeit pretty expensive. Armalite is another. If I'm ever in the market for an off the shelf AR, they'll get my business going forward.

 

LMT is finally, after 4 years of threatening, moving to Iowa.

[Double P]

I think I'll still wait for a statement from RRA and SA...before I get my panties in a bunch. /quote]

 

Didn't SA already make a statement the further incriminated them?

[InterestedBystander]

I think I'll still wait for a statement from RRA and SA...before I get my panties in a bunch. /quote]

Didn't SA already make a statement the further incriminated them?

Hope SA can do a better job on their 2nd attempt

 

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/daniel-zimmerman/statement-from-springfield-armory-ceo-denny-reese-on-ifma-deal-illinois-anti-gun-legislation/

 

“The legislative process is a fluid process. The bill has only moved through one chamber, and it is still in the process. We fully support the Second Amendment and stand by it. The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well.”

[geomick]

 

If people want to support another Illinois manufacturer that didn't bend over and take it from an Oak Park politician, Lewis Machine & Tool makes some good stuff, albeit pretty expensive. Armalite is another. If I'm ever in the market for an off the shelf AR, they'll get my business going forward.

 

DS Arms is another, Mostly fn/fal but AR parts also

 

 

 

DSArms has an AR configuration with a left side charging handle, available configured like a mini-FAL.It is on my long term wish list.

[kk5]

 

 

If people want to support another Illinois manufacturer that didn't bend over and take it from an Oak Park politician, Lewis Machine & Tool makes some good stuff, albeit pretty expensive. Armalite is another. If I'm ever in the market for an off the shelf AR, they'll get my business going forward.

 

DS Arms is another, Mostly fn/fal but AR parts also

 

 

 

DSArms has an AR configuration with a left side charging handle, available configured like a mini-FAL.It is on my long term wish list.

 

 

I saw those, nice. I just happened to run across DSA looking for a FAL firing pin for mine.

[ScottFM]

"The Illinois Manufacturers Association will continue to fight and protect not only manufacturers, but dealers and the gun owner as well. But will continue its effort to eliminate the middle man gun shop owner that stops us from direct selling to you and maximizing our products. We think the days of the local gun shop are numbered and without them you can get better service from Springfield Armory. Soon after the last LGS close we will be offering a new service. Our mobile shooting range will be coming to communities near you. At only $20,000/hr we expect this revolutionize the shooting experience.

 

Love,

 

Dennise Reese

CEO and Greedy Jerk

[C0untZer0]

I don't understand why this is a shock though, didn't Keller say in committee that the IFMA would drop their opposition to the bill if manufacturers were exempted?

 

He charted it out for Harmon right there and telegraphed what the IFMA was going to do. The time for a backlash against the IFMA was right then when they signaled their willingness to make a deal with the devil.

[BradS]

The exemption was negotiated on their behalf. I heard their lobbyist in committee allude to them changing to no position if the exemption was included in the bill.The question in my mind is whether the manufacturers knew they were being represented this way.

You heard that?

 

So you were there in March?

 

Did anybody make a post about it here on IllinoisCarry back in March?

 

Did anybody try to contact SA and RRA back then to tell them that their lobbyist was about to have something blow up in all their faces?

[cls74]

 

The exemption was negotiated on their behalf. I heard their lobbyist in committee allude to them changing to no position if the exemption was included in the bill.The question in my mind is whether the manufacturers knew they were being represented this way.

You heard that?

So you were there in March?

Did anybody make a post about it here on IllinoisCarry back in March?

Did anybody try to contact SA and RRA back then to tell them that their lobbyist was about to have something blow up in all their faces?

A small search of Bill Actions showing when it passes out, a forum search for Mauserme's daily legislative thread and a scroll through would say yes he heard it, but no he was not there.

 

Of all the members to question I think mauser would be the last to call out in such a manner

 

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=65275&p=1077619

[BradS]

I will go look for mauserme's posts from Mark.

 

And then I will be back.

[cls74]

I gave you a link directly to it

[BradS]

Okay, thanks! I'll be the first to admit that I glossed right over that. My search fu skills needed a workout anyway.

 

So, from that thread there is this part:

 

Jay Keller of the manufacturers association is up.

 

He speaks to the manufacturers exemption that's pending. He reserves the right to see the bill but implies he would have no position if the bill is amended.

And then at the top of page 4 of that thread is this:

 

Senator Hastings will be against the bill if amended to exempt manufacturers.

 

The bill will be favorably reported.

.

Sooo....I guess a whole bunch of people, including me, missed it.

 

And now we know going forward into the future that any time we hear the word "exemption" that our ears should at least perk up.

[InterestedBystander]

And then at the top of page 4 of that thread is this:

Senator Hastings will be against the bill if amended to exempt manufacturers.

.

I see Senator Hastings cast (or rather did not cast) a NV on the bill with exemption.

[gangrel]

I have spoken to Springfield Armory and Senator Tom Rooney's office today.

I own property in Rooney's district and I also own Springfield products.

Rooney's office said that his vote was based on hearing constituents desires.

Take that for what it's worth.

I was polite and the people that took the calls were very nice and made it clear that they are getting flooded with calls.

Rooney has come out with a statement apparently and Springfield says they will be coming out with one.

 

Keep it up folks.

FWIW - I live in Rooney's district. This is the response I received from him today to the nastygram I sent to him last night:

 

​Dear [gangrel],

 

I personally opposed SB1657. But the feedback that I received during the lead-up to the bill convinced me, against my own predictions, that the 27th district is generally in support of this approach.

 

Please understand that I do not say this lightly. I do not just count heads blindly; it's not just a majority of my emails and phone calls that drives my decision-making when the public weighs in. In my occupation, I teach students survey methods. I know enough to know how to really read what data is saying, and how to find the organic material and how to carefully determine as best as one can what a larger population looks like based on a sample size. I have also talked to many residents, and those conversations lead me to have confidence in my analysis.

 

I take seriously my obligation to represent the whole district. In my considered opinion, the yes vote did that accurately. Yes, sir, quite frankly it was very uncomfortable to be the only Republican -- that's an understatement. However, nearly every one of my colleagues represent districts that are significantly friendlier to guns in general than our district is. They're representing their districts correctly, as I believe I am.

 

For what it's worth, the bill is not actually expected to become law.

 

Finally, there is plenty of session left. I understand your disappointment in my vote on SB1657, but I urge you to keep watching. As bills like SB31, HB40, etc. come forward, I think you may prefer to have my conservative votes on bills like those rather than having no conservative votes from your senator at all.

 

Sincerely yours,

Tom Rooney

Not sure if y'all are familiar with him, but Rooney has not won an election to his current office. He appointed by the Mayor of Rolling Meadows in September 2016 as the successor to the resigning Matt Murphy. I pointed out to him that he's going to wish he had all of our votes when he does have to run for reelection.

[InterestedBystander]

...Finally, there is plenty of session left. I understand your disappointment in my vote on SB1657, but I urge you to keep watching. As bills like SB31, HB40, etc. come forward, I think you may prefer to have my conservative votes on bills like those rather than having no conservative votes from your senator at all....

 

SB31 = immigration bill and HB40 = abortion bill

[cls74]

 

I have spoken to Springfield Armory and Senator Tom Rooney's office today.

I own property in Rooney's district and I also own Springfield products.

Rooney's office said that his vote was based on hearing constituents desires.

Take that for what it's worth.

I was polite and the people that took the calls were very nice and made it clear that they are getting flooded with calls.

Rooney has come out with a statement apparently and Springfield says they will be coming out with one.

 

Keep it up folks.

 

FWIW - I live in Rooney's district. This is the response I received from him today to the nastygram I sent to him last night:

 

​Dear [gangrel],

I personally opposed SB1657. But the feedback that I received during the lead-up to the bill convinced me, against my own predictions, that the 27th district is generally in support of this approach.

Please understand that I do not say this lightly. I do not just count heads blindly; it's not just a majority of my emails and phone calls that drives my decision-making when the public weighs in. In my occupation, I teach students survey methods. I know enough to know how to really read what data is saying, and how to find the organic material and how to carefully determine as best as one can what a larger population looks like based on a sample size. I have also talked to many residents, and those conversations lead me to have confidence in my analysis.

I take seriously my obligation to represent the whole district. In my considered opinion, the yes vote did that accurately. Yes, sir, quite frankly it was very uncomfortable to be the only Republican -- that's an understatement. However, nearly every one of my colleagues represent districts that are significantly friendlier to guns in general than our district is. They're representing their districts correctly, as I believe I am.

For what it's worth, the bill is not actually expected to become law.

Finally, there is plenty of session left. I understand your disappointment in my vote on SB1657, but I urge you to keep watching. As bills like SB31, HB40, etc. come forward, I think you may prefer to have my conservative votes on bills like those rather than having no conservative votes from your senator at all.

Sincerely yours,

Tom Rooney

 

Not sure if y'all are familiar with him, but Rooney has not won an election to his current office. He appointed by the Mayor of Rolling Meadows in September 2016 as the successor to the resigning Matt Murphy. I pointed out to him that he's going to wish he had all of our votes when he does have to run for reelection.

Wonder if there are any other close votes that may have needed a Republican or two to compare with. I know nothing about him, but when it was stated that he was the sole Republican vote and it passed by a single vote I could not help but think of former state Senator Mark Kirk

[Hatchet]

if that is honestly how he decided (i know if i was ever elected to an office i would do the same thing, regardless of what i believe in personally, i would vote based on the people in my district. that would be based o phone calls and e-mails) then that just proves how important it is to call and voice your opinion to your reps.

[BradS]

I know quite a bit about sampling, writing surveys, and interpreting the data, myself.

 

How does he know that everyone who called his office to voice support one way or the other on whatever issue was actually from his district?

[C0untZer0]

Sometimes when I call, my state senator's admins just keep a quick tally, but most of the time they ask for name and address. Now granted, people could call and lie about where they live.

 

One of the reasons I highly advocate that we has politically active Second Amendment defenders give campaign donations to pro-2A representatives. Money talks, bull**** walks (around and around Chuck's Gunshop, singing "We Shall Overcome", until the TV cameras leave)