Online ammunition sellers who will ship to Chicago

[BTrain929]

My exchange with Grabagun when they cancelled my order. I think that NSSF and NRA should get involved to clear this issue. They are throwing the baby with the bath water. These are bans by people who claim to support the 2nd amendment.

 

 

Thanks again for your order. However, we can not ship magazines of this capacity to your state.

 

Your order has been cancelled and a full refund issued.

 

Thank you,

Greg

 

Yes you can ship it in my state and there is no capacity limit. Please check the laws again. Chicago has a limit of 15 rounds but even that is preempted by state law so there is no limit.

 

 

New policies have been enacted at Grab A Gun in response to ever-changing state and local laws on firearm

legality and high capacity regulations. As a Texas-licensed gun dealer, we are unable to verify legality

for firearms and ammunition for every state, county and city across the country. For this reason, Grab A

Gun has instituted a policy that if a state (or any county/city within a state) has "assault weapon" or

high capacity magazine restrictions, we will not ship them to that state under any circumstances. This

also applies to law enforcement officers, who are typically exempt from firearm statutes. Hopefully

new legislation will pass in the future that would allow us to resume conducting normal business within

your state.

 

 

When were your new policies enacted? There is no "assault weapon" ban in Illinois and this is a pistol magazine. The law in Chicago hasn't changed since 2014 and it doesn't take long to see. Seems like you don't want to bother and are making up excuses.

 

 

There are active assault weapon and high capacity statutes in Cook County and ammunition shipping regulations across the whole state of Illinois, which are still in effect to the best of our knowledge. The policies were enacted just within the last month, due to rising incidences of firearms having to be returned to us, and ammunition orders are becoming too troublesome with having to verify active FOID cards. From a logistical standpoint, the cost to ship these items into Illinois/Cook County is simply outweighing the benefits, as well as opening the company up to potential legal issues. Again, we apologize for the inconvenience and sincerely wish that we were able to ship to your state unrestricted.

 

Thanks,

Greg

 

 

Thought this might help our situation... ATF has finally updated their published list of laws. They now have it broken down on their online site by state. For Illinois, it includes all the updated concealed carry including the preemption that the State has preempted all handgun laws over municipality ordinances. Surprisingly it only includes at the end of the document, ordinances for Aurora and for Chicago only. As far as Chicago, it details that the firearms dealers need a license if they are using a physical location inside of Chicago. As everyone here already knows, there is no ordinance prohibiting having ammunition shipped to them in Chicago and any dealers that take the time to review this will not find any prohibition. Illinois law already allows anyone with a valid FOID to have purchased ammunition shipped to them and that is also listed in this document under 430 ILCS 65/3. It says "ANY RESIDENT" and does not distinguish anything regarding any municipality ordinances. One thing ammunition related that Chicago does prohibit is 50bmg rounds and "armor piercing" ammo. Absolutely nothing else is listed under the prohibition. Another interesting thing I saw was in regards to "high capacity" magazines under Chicago's laws. It identifies them as having over 15rd capacity. So anything that is 15rds or less are good to go as well. I ways thought it was 12rds or less. Maybe now that this published through ATF, more dealers will jump on board and start selling to Chicago residents. Here is the link. Hopefully it works for you.

 

https://www.atf.gov/docs/undefined/firearmsstatutesandcodes-illinoispdf/download

So, I just want to be clear. I'd like to buy some 17/18/20 rd magazines onilne and have them shipped to my house in Chicago. Is 357 right, or is mikey right?? If they can't be shipped, is that only for Chicago, or Cook? Could I have them shipped to an FFL not in Chicago?

 

Thanks in advance!!!

[gunuser17]

The Chicago 15 round limit ordinance is still on the books. A number of people argue that the Illinois state preemption law on handguns rendered that city ordinance moot. However, I have not found any actual court decision to that effect and I have not found any vendor outside of the state or even in the state (Springfield Armory) that would ship a handgun magazine with a capacity greater than 15 to Chicago. Companies are just not willing to take the chance.

[lockman]

The Chicago 15 round limit ordinance is still on the books. A number of people argue that the Illinois state preemption law on handguns rendered that city ordinance moot. However, I have not found any actual court decision to that effect and I have not found any vendor outside of the state or even in the state (Springfield Armory) that would ship a handgun magazine with a capacity greater than 15 to Chicago. Companies are just not willing to take the chance.

 

How can Chicago enforce it against an out of state seller?

 

Questionable misdemeanor at best. Extradition?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[lockman]

The Chicago 15 round limit ordinance is still on the books. A number of people argue that the Illinois state preemption law on handguns rendered that city ordinance moot. However, I have not found any actual court decision to that effect and I have not found any vendor outside of the state or even in the state (Springfield Armory) that would ship a handgun magazine with a capacity greater than 15 to Chicago. Companies are just not willing to take the chance.

 

How can Chicago enforce it against an out of state seller?

 

Questionable misdemeanor at best. Extradition?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[McCroskey]

Long story short, you are not going to find a mail-order vendor who will sell you magazines with a capacity greater than 15 rounds and be willing to ship them to an address in Chicago. In fact, some won't ship you anything more than 12 rounds (which is the Cook County limit), and some won't ship you any magazines of any size whatsoever (Bud's, Palmetto, etc).

 

Only handgun magazines are (potentially) pre-empted by the state concealed carry law, and even that is treated as vague. I personally think they are, since they're an integral part of a semi-automatic handgun (the gun won't operate without one), but I'm not a lawyer and can't give you legal advice in that regard.

 

As for whether a vendor will ship them to a FFL dealer, you'd have to check that with the vendors and the dealer.

 

How would Chicago enforce any of this against an out-of-state dealer? Who knows?

[Hazborgufen]

Long story short, you are not going to find a mail-order vendor who will sell you magazines with a capacity greater than 15 rounds and be willing to ship them to an address in Chicago. In fact, some won't ship you anything more than 12 rounds (which is the Cook County limit), and some won't ship you any magazines of any size whatsoever (Bud's, Palmetto, etc).

 

Only handgun magazines are (potentially) pre-empted by the state concealed carry law, and even that is treated as vague. I personally think they are, since they're an integral part of a semi-automatic handgun (the gun won't operate without one), but I'm not a lawyer and can't give you legal advice in that regard.

 

As for whether a vendor will ship them to a FFL dealer, you'd have to check that with the vendors and the dealer.

 

How would Chicago enforce any of this against an out-of-state dealer? Who knows?

 

Chicago politicians would get in front of a camera and make grim statements about enabling violence and would name the seller directly and state that they are "exporting violence to our streets" and that the City is looking into what legal recourse they have against them. They would then declare that Congress should close the "person buying non regulated items from out of state loophole," but then blame the NRA for being too powerful to allow for these "common sense" laws. Then they would call for Springfield to enact legislation.

 

Honestly, the anti-gun response is pretty much paint by numbers at this point. While I understand merchants not wanting that on their shoulders I also think it's cowardly of them.

[Looper]

Order your magazines from CDNN.

[V088]

I'd gotten several orders from Freedom Munitions and really liked their stuff but they don't ship here anymore Just an update.

[McCroskey]

I'd gotten several orders from Freedom Munitions and really liked their stuff but they don't ship here anymore Just an update.

 

Yes, Freedom Munitions were removed from the OK list a while ago as they changed their minds.

[Glock19NR]

I placed an order for a MAGPUL PMAG 15 round magazine from Brownells yesterday. This morning I received the following email from them.

I was going to reply with links to this forum

and this page http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/NoHiCapChemSpray.pdf

and the ATF page but I thought I would post here first for advice.

 

Your order (Brownells confirmation #xxxxxxxx) contains an item that is
restricted in your area. Your complete order will be put on hold until
the proper documents have been received. One of the following documents
must be on file with us:

A) Large Capacity Magazine Permit issued by your
State (CA)
If you are a police officer, your order must be submitted
on Department letterhead stating that they will receive
and validate your ID for the transport of high capacity
magazines. The magazines must be shipped to the Department
address listed on the letterhead. The letterhead must be
signed by your Superior Officer.
C) FFL (CA, CO, MD, NJ, NY)

The document can be faxed or mailed.

If your document is not received within two weeks of the order being
placed, your restricted item will be cancelled, unless we, the Gun
Department, are contacted during this time.

Please fax the documentation to 641-623-8114 or email to
orderdesk@policestore.com

Sincerely,

The Gang at Brownells

[Glock19NR]

Order your magazines from CDNN.

Trying to order a 15 round glock magazine, as soon as I confirmed my address on the checkout page this message popped up

• • • Due to our company policy, we do not ship firearms or magazines to your state with a capacity over 10 rounds (Includes Chicago). To order a gun without magazines, please call us 800-588-9500.

[McCroskey]

Magazine shipping is a separate issue from ammo, and has its own set of complexities. Let's keep this thread within the original scope (ammunition), otherwise the info here will become more difficult for people to navigate.

 

Thank you.

[BTrain929]

Placed an order thru TargetSportsUSA late monday night for 8 boxes of ammo shipping to the 606. Received in Friday's mail.

 

2 big thumbs up!!!

[Slacker]

I had an order from Brownells cancelled today. This is what the email said.

 

Thank you for the recent order. Due to recent changes by our compliance dept. we unfortunately are not shipping any ammo to Chicago at this time. We will keep your FOID on file should this restriction change in the future, but as we are unable to ship to any other address than the one on the FOID card I will have to cancel your order. I do apologize for the inconvenience.

[BerettaMan]

I had an order from Brownells cancelled today. This is what the email said.

 

Thank you for the recent order. Due to recent changes by our compliance dept. we unfortunately are not shipping any ammo to Chicago at this time. We will keep your FOID on file should this restriction change in the future, but as we are unable to ship to any other address than the one on the FOID card I will have to cancel your order. I do apologize for the inconvenience.

Sad news. I've ordered from them a couple of times, but the last was over a year ago. I enjoyed buying from a well known reputable dealer where I also bought gun parts. The only problem that I ever had with them was when I once ordered online, which caused an automatic cancellation, instead of directly by phone being able to advise them of my FOID on file. I guess I'll have to look at the forum's list of dealers again.

[johnd]

 

I had an order from Brownells cancelled today. This is what the email said.

 

Thank you for the recent order. Due to recent changes by our compliance dept. we unfortunately are not shipping any ammo to Chicago at this time. We will keep your FOID on file should this restriction change in the future, but as we are unable to ship to any other address than the one on the FOID card I will have to cancel your order. I do apologize for the inconvenience.

Sad news. I've ordered from them a couple of times, but the last was over a year ago. I enjoyed buying from a well known reputable dealer where I also bought gun parts. The only problem that I ever had with them was when I once ordered online, which caused an automatic cancellation, instead of directly by phone being able to advise them of my FOID on file. I guess I'll have to look at the forum's list of dealers again.

 

I had the exact same experience last week also ordering ammunition to be shipped to a 606** zipcode.

[McCroskey]

Shame about Brownell's. They were originally a "no", then were won over after someone sent them the new ordinance. I'll remove them from the list.

[johnd]

I also attempted to order from Trop last week but saw a new notice on their website. I even took the time to send them an email asking for clarification and Trop confirmed that they won't ship to Chicago.

 

It looks like Brownells and Trop need to be removed from the list on the first page.

[solareclipse2]

 

Order your magazines from CDNN.

Trying to order a 15 round glock magazine, as soon as I confirmed my address on the checkout page this message popped up

• • • Due to our company policy, we do not ship firearms or magazines to your state with a capacity over 10 rounds (Includes Chicago). To order a gun without magazines, please call us 800-588-9500.

 

 

The CDNN website is bunk. I had to call them and order my P226 mags over the phone. The guy was genuinely confused when I asked him about it.

[johnd]

Bone Frog Gun Club needs to be removed from the list as they will not ship to 606**:

 

"If you are seeing this error message we are unable to ship to your address. Most likely you reside in CT, IL, MA, NJ, NY or a City/County in CA prohibiting us from shipping ammunition."

[Brownshoe]

Bone Frog Gun Club needs to be removed from the list as they will not ship to 606**:

 

"If you are seeing this error message we are unable to ship to your address. Most likely you reside in CT, IL, MA, NJ, NY or a City/County in CA prohibiting us from shipping ammunition."

I am getting the same message when I try ground shipping. I was able to complete the order by requiring an adult signature. This costs $5 more, raising shipping to over $15, making an online purchase not worth it.

 

According to their FAQ, Chicago is okay:

 

Do you ship to Illinois (including Chicago)?

Yes. Once you email us copies of your Driver's License and FOID card, we will keep it on file. Please see our Terms & Conditions for instructions on completing your order.

 

 

EDITED: I spoke to Bonefrog. At worst, it is a website error. I was actually able to "X" out of the pop-up no shipping to IL message and choose the standard shipping. They were adamant that their policies have not changed. As proof, I received my order via UPS today.

[Brownshoe]

I just tried to order from Brownells. They have given me an order number, which took them about 30 minutes after the initial confirmation number. I'll update if they subsequently cancel my order.

 

EDITED: They just canceled my order due to new policies. I told them if it changes to let me know, so I can consider doing business with them again. Very disappointing.

[Mark_791]

I have made several orders through Target Sports USA without any issues at all. Just need to upload your FOID and then good to go.

[smokedaddy]

 

 

As we post which dealers will ship to Chicago, aren't we helping the state, county and city to followup with the dealers in a threatening manor if they keep shipping to Chicago & Cook County?

Why would the state care? The idea that we should hide this implies there is something inherently wrong or illegal about what we're doing. Neither is the case.

 

The state of Illinois has never banned internet or mail order ammunition. Their only law is that the you need to have a FOID and the ammo has to deliver to the address on the FOID or the one on your driver's license.

 

Cook County, as far as I know, has no laws banning online or mail order ammo purchases.

 

The only regulation that could be construed as banning online or mail order ammo sales was an old city of Chicago ordinance, which prohibited "transfer" of ammo within city limits. That ordinance language was deleted in 2014 and replaced with new language that bans sales of guns at gun shows. There is nothing about ammunition at all.

 

Illinois doesn't care. Cook and Chicago probably don't like it, but there's not a thing they can do about it. None of them are going to harass vendors in other states and risk a host of harassment lawsuits.

 

What we're doing is legal.

 

 

All I know is that Freedom Munitions used to freely ship to Chicago until their name appeared all over the forum, then they magically decided (after 2 orders that I received) that they were no longer going to ship to Chicago/Cook County. Something happened to change their mind.

 

Maybe some local authority is using this list and going after them. Maybe this list should be restricted to members only?

[smokedaddy]

Here are the email i got from Brownells.

 

Thanks for responding, our compliance dept. is currently reviewing and updating all restrictions across the US, while they do the review, they have put a hold on ammo going to Chicago. This may change once the update is done but they haven’t finished yet. We will keep your FOID on file should this open back up but at this time I am unable to proceed. I do apologize.

 

 

 

[smokedaddy]

Would it be possible to get a 2A friendly attorney to draft up a letter that actually states the current restrictions and proves it is legal to ship here? Something that could be forwarded to the "will not ship here" list and to other potential dealers on the cusp. Maybe see how many members would be willing to make a donation to fund that? Just a thought. Maybe the NRA could help with this too.

[McCroskey]

Maybe some local authority is using this list and going after them. Maybe this list should be restricted to members only?

I'm going to stop this right now.

 

This thread isn't going to be made private, period. It's been asked several times and I've explained why.

 

1. There is nothing illegal or even in violation of an ordinance when ordering shipped ammo.

 

2. Trying to "hide" this implies that we think we're doing something wrong. We aren't.

 

3. Whenever someone's favorite seller decides to change their policy, this doesn't mean it's because of a law, or that their concern is justified.

 

4. Nobody is "going after" mail order ammo sellers. They're not breaking the law, so nobody with any authority would do so.

 

Please remain on topic. If anyone finds a new vendor to add or needs one removed, please feel free to let me know. The arguing about these vendors who changed their policies for whatever reason is pointless, so please stop. Thank you everyone.

[mauserme]

Would it be possible to get a 2A friendly attorney to draft up a letter that actually states the current restrictions and proves it is legal to ship here? Something that could be forwarded to the "will not ship here" list and to other potential dealers on the cusp. Maybe see how many members would be willing to make a donation to fund that? Just a thought. Maybe the NRA could help with this too.

The difficulty is proving a negative. Demonstrating that something doesn't exist, a law against ammunition shipments in this case, is much harder than demonstrating when something does exist.

 

That's a big part of why we're here - to help people understand their rights and how to exercise them within the laws that actually are on the books.

[ChicagoRonin70]

Does anyone here have text from correspondence sent to an ammunition seller, including the relevant statutes, that has worked to convince the seller that Chicago is not allowed to forbid the shipment of ammunition to buyers within the city limits?

 

Wideners rejected my verification information, including my CCL, which by its nature should preempt Chicago from interfering with ammunition shipments to me.

 

I'd like to get something that gives all of the information, in a collected form, to send to these misguided companies, to start checking them off of the list.

[McCroskey]

Does anyone here have text from correspondence sent to an ammunition seller, including the relevant statutes, that has worked to convince the seller that Chicago is not allowed to forbid the shipment of ammunition to buyers within the city limits?

 

Wideners rejected my verification information, including my CCL, which by its nature should preempt Chicago from interfering with ammunition shipments to me.

 

I'd like to get something that gives all of the information, in a collected form, to send to these misguided companies, to start checking them off of the list.

 

I used to buy from Wideners until a couple of years ago, when they decided they would no longer ship ammunition to Chicago. They were among the first batch of sellers I contacted with a form e-mail I was using at the time, plus a link (or attachment) containing the City Ordinance, including the struck out ammo transfer portion, but Wideners was among a few who simply did not care, or didn't believe me, or thought that they were forbidden unless they obtained a Chicago dealers license (even though they're not in Chicago or even Illinois). I haven't placed them on the "lost causes" list, but I'm wondering if I should.

 

Here's a link to the ordinance. The portion you want is 8-20-100. if you type 24 into Acrobat it will take you right there.

http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/files/chicago-gun-shop-ordinance.pdf

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of my form letter anymore, but I referenced the fact that the old ban on "transfer" of ammunition within the city was struck out with the passage of this ordinance.