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CA Gun Laws Don't Work


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#1 Just some guy

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 11:07 AM

Article: https://www.fox7aust...gl9E1IX7z2qy9ws

 

1. 2017 Father died

2. 2016 Father had 6 guns seized

3. There were 42 firearms in house last month

4. A prohibited person was able to acquire 42 firearms in 1 year

5. CA SB 61 limits a LAW ABIDING citizen to one concealable firearm purchase in a 30 day period: https://leginfo.legi...d=201920200SB61

6. CA SB 61 did nothing to prevent a prohibited person from acquiring firearms

7. Appears that firearms are readily available to prohibited persons but not to law abiding citizens in CA.


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#2 FST_Kent

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 12:47 PM

Without reading the article and just looking at the list above, it appears he died from purchasing too many firearms.



#3 Euler

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 01:59 PM

Without reading the article and just looking at the list above, it appears he died from purchasing too many firearms.


It's about the Santa Clarita HS shooting and where the kid got the 45. Apparently he put a gun together from a parts kit.

...
"We need to work with Congress to enact legislation to ban ghost guns, to ban the selling of these kit guns that allows anyone - particularly a prohibited person - from just circumventing all the registration laws," [Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex] Villanueva said. "That defeats the entire purpose of having these laws in place."


Missing from the article is the fact that parts kits don't include receivers, which are the regulated parts of firearms. It still leaves open the question of where the kid got the pistol frame. Villanueva called them ghost guns, but there's been no story I've seen that stated or implied that the kid's 45 was unserialized.

HYPE
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#4 Flynn

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 02:36 PM

Missing from the article is the fact that parts kits don't include receivers, which are the regulated parts of firearms. It still leaves open the question of where the kid got the pistol frame. 

 

 

Not saying it's the case but the Polymer80 (80% Glock frame) is sold everwhere.


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#5 Just some guy

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 03:50 PM

My point was that it was easy for a prohibited person to re-arm in a short period of time.

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#6 Flynn

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 04:02 PM

My point was that it was easy for a prohibited person to re-arm in a short period of time.

 

Well only dolts believe that the opposite is true, with a few Benjamins anyone can re-arm within minutes in an alley or on the dark web, assuming they just don't use a crowbar to obtain the weapon in a theft.


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#7 Rev Jim

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 04:40 PM

The article says all you need is a "gun kit" and access to YouTube to turn a chunk of metal into an untraceable firearm. Sounds super-easy!  Seriously though, my guess is the Dad was building out 80% receivers before he passed away.  Too bad reporting is so poor we have to guess at the facts.



#8 Bubbacs

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 05:52 PM

News story out there with the statement that the handgun in question did NOT have a serial number!
Being called a ghost gun.

Some absurd percentage of guns in California arrests are now being reported as ghost guns.......

#9 Euler

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Posted 22 November 2019 - 11:27 PM

There do seem to be a bunch of news items now about the firearm being unserialized. "Ghost gun" is a term that was made-up by anti-2As, but at least it seems to have a fairly consistent definition, i.e., unserialized firearm.

The meaning of 80% reciever appears to be more fluid. Or maybe Villanueva just doesn't know what the other 20% is.

The Hill

...
The gun does not have a serial number to track, Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva told KABC-TV on Thursday. Ghost guns, also known as "kit guns," can be purchased online or at gun shows. They do not have serial numbers, nor are they registered.

"They’re also known as an 80 percent gun, so 80 percent of it is assembled already. You get the initial 20 percent, and they're sold as a kit, and you can legally buy it, assemble the weapon yourself and you have a gun that is not registered and no one knows that you have it," Villanueva told the news station.
...


The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants, and it provides the further advantage of giving the servants of tyranny a good conscience.

- Albert Camus, Resistance, Rebellion, and Death, 1960.


#10 Flynn

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 02:06 AM

"They’re also known as an 80 percent gun, so 80 percent of it is assembled already. You get the initial 20 percent, and they're sold as a kit, and you can legally buy it, assemble the weapon yourself and you have a gun that is not registered and no one knows that you have it," Villanueva told the news station.
...

 

Putting aside his lack of understanding of what an 80% hunk of metal or plastic is, he leaves out the fact that although you may be able to purchase these items due to a gray area of law that doesn't specifically prohibit their purchase, you can't legally assemble those parts if you are prohibited person as existing laws already forbid that act and the possession once assembled.


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#11 sctman800

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 04:47 AM

   My understanding is any individual not prohibited by law can buy and finish an 80% reciever then assemble with a parts kit.  What I have not seen mentioned is it is illegal to sell this firearm and only legalto be passed down or gifted to a relative.  Please correct me if I am wrong.   Jim.


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#12 Flynn

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Posted 23 November 2019 - 04:29 PM

What I have not seen mentioned is it is illegal to sell this firearm and only legalto be passed down or gifted to a relative.  Please correct me if I am wrong.   Jim.

 

The BATF allows you to sell home built guns with no serial (the BATF recommends but does not mandate a serial be applied) as long as it was originally built for personal use and not built with the intent for it to enter commerce, state laws may vary.  You would just indicate on the bill of sale and/or 4473 that it has 'no serial' the same as you would for a vintage firearm that lacks a serial..


Edited by Flynn, 23 November 2019 - 04:31 PM.

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#13 chislinger

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 09:39 AM

News story out there with the statement that the handgun in question did NOT have a serial number!
Being called a ghost gun.

Some absurd percentage of guns in California arrests are now being reported as ghost guns.......

And as we all know it's impossible to remove a serial number from a gun with a Dremel and 5 minutes of time.
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#14 chicagoresident

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 01:47 PM

What I have not seen mentioned is it is illegal to sell this firearm and only legalto be passed down or gifted to a relative.  Please correct me if I am wrong.   Jim.

 
The BATF allows you to sell home built guns with no serial (the BATF recommends but does not mandate a serial be applied) as long as it was originally built for personal use and not built with the intent for it to enter commerce, state laws may vary.  You would just indicate on the bill of sale and/or 4473 that it has 'no serial' the same as you would for a vintage firearm that lacks a serial..
There are guns that never had a serial number that are legal to sell. But if you make a gun with or without a serial and sell it without a manufacturing license that’s an issue.

#15 Flynn

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 03:08 PM

But if you make a gun with or without a serial and sell it without a manufacturing license that’s an issue.

 

 

No it is not (at the Federal level) it all revolves around your intent when building the gun, if it was honestly built for personal use with no intent on giving it away or selling at the time then you can legally sell it at a later date if your mind changes.  Building one for honest personal use then selling at a later date if you mind changes, doesn't rise to the level of "engaged in the business of manufacturing" to require a serial/license.

 

http://www.gunsholst...memade-firearm/

 

ATF-Response-01.jpg?w=1500


Edited by Flynn, 24 November 2019 - 03:12 PM.

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#16 markthesignguy

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 08:03 PM

Intent....  the lawyer's (and persecutor's) paradise.


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#17 Flynn

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 08:30 PM

Intent....  the lawyer's (and persecutor's) paradise.

 

A lot of that is going to lean on how many and how fast you flipped them.  If you make a handfull and sell a few here and there and retain most over the course of a few decades it's entirely different then someone making one and selling it the next day, or someone making a dozen a year and selling that entire dozen lot that same year.  And that doesn't even touch on those that clearly are building them to sell or give to someone else based on other information, like say for example dark web advertisements.  Plus you would have to get on the ATF's radar first, I have not researched it, but how many 'casual' builders have been charged (let alone convicted) for lawfully selling a home built unserialize firearm?  I would be surprised if you could find 5 cases of any casual for their own use builder being charged under Federal law in the last 30 years.  And with the recent AFT dropping the entire AR15 80% CNC milling operation case, it would appear the ATF doesn't even want to try and defend the AR lower as being a receiver in the first place that requires a serial or even being the regulated part meaning for a vast majority of 'ghost guns' that hurdle would have to be achieved as well.


Edited by Flynn, 24 November 2019 - 08:34 PM.

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#18 chicagoresident

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Posted 24 November 2019 - 08:40 PM

Intent....  the lawyer's (and persecutor's) paradise.

I alway thought sale was off limits, but that ATF letter says otherwise. Heres some more details.
http://www.gunsholst...memade-firearm/

A gray area right up there with constructive possession.

Edited by chicagoresident, 24 November 2019 - 08:43 PM.





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