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Illinois instructor received audit today


Jack1911

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Just wanted to share some information with Illinois Carry. The Illinois State Police met with me today. There were no complaints issued on me, they stated they are just gathering information. From speaking with other instructors, they are making rounds with other instructors as well.

Just curious if any other instructors received an audit as well.

50% of the time was an actual audit, the other 50% was asking feedback from me on my opinion of certain subjects.

 

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Just wanted to share some information with Illinois Carry. The Illinois State Police met with me today. There were no complaints issued on me, they stated they are just gathering information. From speaking with other instructors, they are making rounds with other instructors as well.

Just curious if any other instructors received an audit as well.

50% of the time was an actual audit, the other 50% was asking feedback from me on my opinion of certain subjects.

 

 

Hope you didn't answer anything not pertaining to the audit ...

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So this wasn't during a class you were teaching, they just showed up to talk to you?

No, NOT during a class. They called me around 09:30 am and asked if I could meet with them for a random audit. I said sure. They stated that they had done several already. They showed up at 2pm. Requested copies of all my rosters. Asked to see my B27 target. Asked about class times and lunch breaks. Asked where I obtained my curriculum from and if I liked it. Asked my opinion about the state having only one curriculum for everyone to use. Asked about continuing education, my thoughts on having an online portal for instructors to submit certificates, rather than the student having to submit it. Asked about the shooting exercises I do with my students, if I have a range officer with me. Also asked if I had any suggestions on making it better.

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"Requested copies of all my rosters." This one aggravates me to no end. Why must I keep redundant records? The ISP is PAID a 2A $150 TAX, they should be responsible for record keeping. A better system to protect an instructor from having a certificate counterfeited in his or her name would be welcomed. With the photo software it can`t be that difficult to copy a certificate and add any name you want.

 

"the state having only one curriculum for everyone to use." Definitely against this one. Every instructor has his or her unique set of talents and abilities. Instructors should be able to make adjustments to their curriculum to fit the students. PPOTH instructors may see things differently than a BP instructor.

 

"portal for instructors to submit certificates" This one MIGHT have some merit. This could help instructors protect themselves from counterfeited certificate used in his or her name. If an instructor submits the certs there should be no need to keep redundant records or be audited. Problem is, would that put some sort of limit on when a student could file? A better system would be to contact the instructor when the student files and have the instructor verify he or she supplied the training and certificate.

 

" Asked about the shooting exercises I do with my students" That`s none of their business. If the ISP wants to become shooting instructors they need to take an Instructor Development Workshop like everyone else. All the student needs is 21 holes in an approved target. How an instructor gets them there is up to the individual instructor.

 

"I`m from the government and I`m here to help you" Sorry, I don`t buy it.

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The ISP is PAID a 2A $150 TAX, they should be responsible for record keeping.

Remember, only a portion goes to actually fund CCW. Much of it restores elective cuts to the FSB made by Blago and Quinn, as well as elective cuts made by Quinn to the State Crime Lab.

 

(At least) $32,000,000 cut from the ISP by Blago, and at least $25,000,000 cut by Quinn.

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I don't know, this could very well be to form a narrative that "Illinois CCL instructors think more training should be required to get a CCL". Next thing you know they'll propose 40 hours...

 

 

And triple the price for classes, and license application.....Oh my!!!

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  • 2 months later...

"Requested copies of all my rosters." This one aggravates me to no end. Why must I keep redundant records? The ISP is PAID a 2A $150 TAX, they should be responsible for record keeping. A better system to protect an instructor from having a certificate counterfeited in his or her name would be welcomed. With the photo software it can`t be that difficult to copy a certificate and add any name you want. ...

 

+1 this.

 

More importantly: They already have a database of ccl applicants... Do we really want them compiling a list of "people with training". Do they even have a right to ask for this?

 

I'd be pretty PO'ed if I took a training course and found out my instructor subsequently handed over my personal information to a random government agency. The fact that you took a course is none of their business. It's no concern of theirs until I actually apply for a ccl.

 

Edited to add: If they are asking for rosters because of a fear of counterfeit certs then give the instructor a list of questionable applicants under his/her name and have them confirm training.

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" If they are asking for rosters because of a fear of counterfeit certs then give the instructor a list of questionable applicants under his/her name and have them confirm training. "

 

That makes too much sense. So far a tall order for the for the way the ISP has handled the CC process.

 

Does anyone know of any penalty for refusing to comply with this ISP request?

 

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...he was a good instructor if you were paying attention and knew I was a very experienced shooter. That's why my target was put out to 10 yards. 30 rounds and done...

So the instructor did not have you also shoot at 5 and 7 yards? Yet he did require the 30 rounds after you put the first 21 in as discussed earlier.

 

...(c ) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of certification by a certified instructor that the applicant passed a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm consisting of:

(1) a minimum of 30 rounds; and

(2) 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds

from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Department.

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...he was a good instructor if you were paying attention and knew I was a very experienced shooter. That's why my target was put out to 10 yards. 30 rounds and done...

So the instructor did not have you also shoot at 5 and 7 yards? Yet he did require the 30 rounds after you put the first 21 in as discussed earlier.

...(c ) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of certification by a certified instructor that the applicant passed a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm consisting of:

(1) a minimum of 30 rounds; and

(2) 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 rounds

from a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Department.

Instructors like that are the reason instructors are getting audits. Most likely there are more problems with those instructors classes. Sad but there are bound to be some who don't follow the law.
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...he was a good instructor if you were paying attention and knew I was a very experienced shooter. That's why my target was put out to 10 yards. 30 rounds and done...So the instructor did not have you also shoot at 5 and 7 yards? Yet he did require the 30 rounds after you put the first 21 in as discussed earlier....(c ) An applicant for a new license shall provide proof of certification by a certified instructor that the applicant passed a live fire exercise with a concealable firearm consisting of:(1) a minimum of 30 rounds; and(2) 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards; 10 roundsfrom a distance of 7 yards; and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards at a B-27 silhouette target approved by the Department. I never shot at 5 or 7 yards. It was 30 shots at 10 yards but during a break in class long before we drove out to the range I talked to him and said " I have been shooting for 40 years". I went through the NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program and was a Pro-Marksman at 11 years old and a Marksman at 12. That was with a .22 in front of NRA qualifications people. My dad didn't score my targets but I had been on a gun range when I was 9. Yes my first 21 rounds were in a 2" group and yet I did have to fire 9 more. I figured 21 hits and I was done. I brought a polymer pistol that I haven't shot in a couple of years. It wasn't like I brought one of my 1911s. I used a 40 cal because those range bullets make nice wadcutter like circles. My take on it is if I can hit at 10 yards then why even bother with 5 or 7? I wasn't going to argue a moot point but thought alright I passed, go home and eat. That first day with range was closer to 10 hours. "Instructors like that are the reason instructors are getting audits. Most likely there are more problems with those instructors classes. Sad but there are bound to be some who don't follow the law." That's the reason I wont post any names. The last thing I need is for my certificate to be revoked because protocol wasn't followed.
I don't know about the rest of your class, but from what you said, this guy tailored his lecture on use of force to make an insurance sales pitch, and had you shoot a course of fire that was more challenging than required by law. Now, the sales pitch...SMH...we are supposed to be teaching what the law actually says. And while I am all for making things more challenging for students that I know can handle it, the law actually spells out the course of fire. Any deviation from that is buyer beware.Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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I would guess the request for the roster is to make sure good records are being kept. If the ISP wants to do follow up with actual students, they already have that information from the CCL applications.

 

I would also venture to say a refusal to cooperate with the audit would be immediate removal from the instructor registry.

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I would guess the request for the roster is to make sure good records are being kept. If the ISP wants to do follow up with actual students, they already have that information from the CCL applications. ...

 

My point is that they do *not* have a list of people who have taken the training but have not actually applied for a CCL... Why should they? The list they already have is a subset of the information they are requesting and the information they are requesting is irrelevant to the CCL process.

 

If you want to check the thoroughness of an instructors record keeping, ask to see the records of a specific *applicant* or three. Don't ask for a list of everyone they've ever trained. That's none of their business.

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