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Chicago Trib Column: 2A Doesn't Say Gun Ownership Has to be Free...


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#1 FoxtrotIndia

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:17 AM

Link: https://www.chicagot...0415-story.html

 

Column:The Second Amendment doesn't say that gun ownership has to be free of charge


Its just a fact of life that handguns are now permanent legal fixtures in the American landscape. We have to live with that.

But the freedom to own a firearm doesnt mean it has to be free of charge. It doesnt mean that owners cant be a tiny bit inconvenienced. And someones right to own a gun certainly does not trump the safety rights of the rest of us.

This is what the pro-gun people dont seem to understand.

Gun rights advocates in Illinois are in an uproar over legislation that is being debated in the General Assembly. The bill simply would make it harder for people who arent supposed to have guns to legally obtain them.

The amendment to House Bill 96, sponsored by Rep. Kathleen Willis, is one of several bills introduced in the aftermath of a multiple shooting at a manufacturing warehouse in Aurora in February.

Of course, we dont know if stricter state laws could have stopped 45-year-old Gary Martin from shooting five co-workers to death, in addition to injuring five police officers, after learning he was to be terminated. But many Illinois residents are demanding that our lawmakers at least give it a try.

What we do know is that Martin never should have had access to his .40-caliber handgun when he went on his deadly rampage. He had a valid firearm owners identification card when he purchased the gun in 2014, but hed lied on his application about his felony conviction.

Since fingerprinting was not required for the FOID card, the Illinois State Police did not know about Martins criminal record in Mississippi. Later that year, he applied for a concealed carry license and opted to speed up the process by submitting fingerprints. That tipped authorities off about his prior conviction for aggravated assault, but he never turned the gun over to local authorities as required by law.

The Second Amendment allows people to legally acquire a handgun. The Supreme Court has made that clear. But all of us should be able to rest assured that people like Martin, who was killed in the incident, cant get one.

Why would anyone, especially the many law-abiding gun owners who go through the proper channels to obtain their firearms, have a problem with closing the loopholes?

Its unfair. Everybodys picking on us. It wasnt the guns fault. It was the shooters fault. He was deranged. How many times have we heard that?

Gun lovers dont seem to have a substantive argument against Willis legislation, but the Illinois State Rifle Association laid out some of the issues last week on its website. For those who dont know, the ISRA is our local version of the National Rifle Association.

The ISRA is livid that everyone who applies for a new FOID card or renews one would have to be fingerprinted. The cost of this would be astronomical, up to $250. In addition, the ISRA says, applicants would have to pay for their own background check, costing another $100 or more.

But who says that the people who choose to own firearms shouldnt have to go into their pocketbooks every now and then? Gun owners have no problem shelling out $600 for the latest Smith & Wesson. But if you ask them to pay $10 the current cost of a FOID card they go ballistic. They are perfectly satisfied allowing taxpayers who would never own a gun to supplement the administrative costs for their freedom.

Theres nothing wrong with forcing the people who like guns to kick in the extra costs for law enforcement officials to run the program properly, including following up on people like Martin who have had their FOID cards revoked.

Under the proposed law, when FOID cards are revoked and the holders fail to turn over their firearms, the state police would have the power to seek a search warrant and confiscate the weapons.

In addition, people would no longer be able to apply for FOID cards online. Applicants would have to go to an ISP district office to apply in person, and the cards would remain active for five years instead of 10.

The ISRA has a big problem with that. Where would everyone park? Where would they sit? What about restrooms? Really, gun-lovers, is that the best you can come up with?

Of course, the made-up issue of discrimination is always hovering somewhere. Gun advocates love to equate demanding background checks for firearms to requiring voters to show photo identification at the polls.

--------------------

Edited by Moderator to comply with Fair Use, and to add the title.

 

Try google's link to the story, or Trib's link to the story to read the whole thing.
https://www.google.c...m0R2ygztpHJzbJy

 

https://www.chicagot...0415-story.html


Edited by mikew, 18 April 2019 - 09:44 AM.


#2 2smartby1/2

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:38 AM

Me don't thinks a fee or tax can be charged for a constitutional right.   



#3 Smallbore

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:39 AM

I wonder if this guy thinks the gov should make newspaper subscribers and owner get finger printed, pay huge fees and have a gov card to purchase a paper. Me think not.

#4 Rangerdeepv

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:44 AM

And this is why the Tribune is going under................liberal press does not do well in my neck of the woods.



#5 DomG

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 07:59 AM

Heres the the thing antis always get wrong. The 2A doesnt give us the right to bear arms. The entire Bill of a rights (2A included), outlines God given rights. The Bill of Rights, 2A included, prevents the government from infringing on our rights. By definition, a right doesnt need a permission slip or a fee.

I also find their voter ID reference laughable. Maybe a lot of people dont pretend to be others to vote, but some people arent eligible to vote and still do, ie felons, illegal aliens, people living outside the district, and the dead in Chicago.

Gary Martin should have been arrested when the ISP found out that he lied on his FOID application- a felony. In that process they would have learned that he purchased a handgun, which means he also lied on his 4473-another felony, and he was a felon in possession of a firearm- another felony. Three easy felonies they missed due to sloppy policing. That sloppiness cost multiple lives. So now they want to add on more laws when the laws already in effect werent enforced?

Edited by DomG, 18 April 2019 - 08:01 AM.

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#6 Jeffrey

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:03 AM

When do they want to discuss fees for voting?


...and justice for all

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#7 FoxtrotIndia

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:08 AM

Gary Martin should have been arrested when the ISP found out that he lied on his FOID application- a felony. In that process they would have learned that he purchased a handgun, which means he also lied on his 4473-another felony, and he was a felon in possession of a firearm- another felony. Three easy felonies they missed due to sloppy policing. That sloppiness cost multiple lives. So now they want to add on more laws when the laws already in effect werent enforced?

 

Exactly.  Let's start enforcing existing laws before ever discussing new ones.  



#8 mab22

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:17 AM

I wonder how the writer of this would feel if they had to pay fees associated with free speech, another fee to peaceable assemble, and additional fees to practice the religion of their choice?

We know that free speech can lead to bullying, which leads to people committing suicide, it also leads people to attack, sometimes physically, those that disagree politically. Therefore your background should be investigate prior to you being able to post or state anything as it may cause an injury to others. Then there’s hate speech...

The same goes for peaceably assembling with others, this can lead to violence in mass and everyone should be investigated and obtain a permit, which they pay for to keep the rest of us safe.

Should religions pay a fee to see if they are dangerous? Someone needs to keep us safe from religions that we disagree with.

The right to petition the government for a redress of grievances - WHOA, now that could be dangerous! You should have to provide a substantial fee and have your background investigated to make sure your not a threat to the government either.

So bring on the Social media posting license and internet communication license. We all deserve to be safe as well.
Void the FOID!

#9 Bubbacs

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:27 AM

So with their logic the 10 amendments ( Bill of Rights ) can and therefore be something that ANYONE wishing to use, should AND will pay for in advance!
Pick 1 and give an example of how this would be done!
Take a step back and think of the enormous amounts of Non Tax monies the government would be able to collect!
And remember that those on the left, demos, celebs, sports figures, music entertainers, et al would then have their OWN body guards and hangers on who carry etc to pay also.
So I'll start with 1 and levy a hefty and far reaching fee on those who sing ANY and ALL songs with a negative word in it.
If you want to use free speech, then you shall pay the price which shall be renewable every five years!

Im not sure i even want to understand all this, and I'm almost certain I’ll be gone before it gets settled......long drawn out court battles etc.
But everyone wants to lay the bodies of the dead moms, dads, sisters, brothers, babies etc at OUR FEET! WHY?
Without exception in the near 65 years of my time here, I’ve heard the same, EXACT same phrase every time there is a call for more firearms laws and what they would accomplish in doing so. This bill/law will save lives! This law will get guns out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them!
I can see after reading these latest two editorials posted here that in fact they are targeting a group in exactly how they stay shouldn’t happen and yet has happened in the past. By making the FEE to be free and safe in America, we keep the poor and disengaged out of the equation. So instead of stating the obvious of taking the firearms away from the inner cities and the people therein, they are working for all of us. Liars all. Straight up Liars.

There used to be in this country something called breaking the law, and if you did this you would suffer a punishment for doing so! EVERYONE was subject to this. SO if we take this today and apply, it looks unbalanced towards the people of color. Could it be that several groups of people decided NOT to break the laws? So if those who break these laws would stop, the balance of those in jails wouldn't be what it is. I know Im walking a fine line here. But no one else is willing to say it. Maybe I'm wrong once again here on the forums.

So let's champion THEIR cause fully.
Our best word smith should be writing right this minute the next OpEd piece!
Taking each of the first 10 amendments and apply an example of why exercising a right should be paid for in advance!
And not a small fee either. The most serious of the rights should proportionately cost more.

Whew, i need a coffee or not........

P.S. I have not spell checked this post :-)

#10 tricolor

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:36 AM

What a bunch of garbage.  And people wonder why print media is on the way out...

 

I love the lame attempts to distinguish voter id from FOID cards.



#11 Mr. Fife

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:38 AM

The bill simply would make it harde their for people who arent supposed to have guns to legally obtain them.



The bill simply would make it harder for people who are supposed to have guns to legally obtain them.


Fixed!

Edited by Mr. Fife, 18 April 2019 - 08:40 AM.

Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
Have all boated who fish?
 
 

#12 Lou

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:41 AM

I wonder if this guy thinks the gov should make newspaper subscribers and owner get finger printed, pay huge fees and have a gov card to purchase a paper. Me think not.


Dahleen Glanton is a far left wing columnist for the Chicago Libune.
Her opinion here is a real stretch.

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#13 spec4

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:46 AM

She typically writes about race or guns.  Sad what has happened to a once great newspaper.



#14 chicagoresident

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 08:55 AM

Gary Martin should have been arrested when the ISP found out that he lied on his FOID application- a felony. In that process they would have learned that he purchased a handgun, which means he also lied on his 4473-another felony, and he was a felon in possession of a firearm- another felony. Three easy felonies they missed due to sloppy policing. That sloppiness cost multiple lives. So now they want to add on more laws when the laws already in effect werent enforced?

 
Exactly.  Let's start enforcing existing laws before ever discussing new ones.
It's almost like gun laws were never designed to work in the first place? Hmmm...

They just scapegoat law enforcement so politicians can justify passing laws for your protection. Aught to be a law about enforcing laws, also packaged with hundreds of new laws chipping away rights. The cycle won't stop until they make your family the next Ruby Ridge. Bonus points if your family happens to be a minority so the suburban moms can excoriate law enforcement further for enforcing the laws they championed.

Edited by chicagoresident, 18 April 2019 - 09:01 AM.


#15 SiliconSorcerer

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:09 AM

When do they want to discuss fees for voting?

 

And.... REQUIRED CLASSES, constitution, IL taxing, etc. 


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#16 kk5

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 01:14 PM

Here is ISP Dist 10 HQ.

Want to tell me how they can take FOID apps in person for 6 counties

isp dist 10.png


Surrender, Like HE Double Hockey Sticks


#17 JTHunter

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 03:12 PM

Me don't thinks a fee or tax can be charged for a constitutional right.   

 

We are already paying for a "Constitutional right" when we have to pay for the FOID.  That, in and of itself, is an "infringement".


“We, the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.” - - Abraham Lincoln

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#18 Nod

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 03:17 PM

She is nothing but a racist piece of s*** like Clarence Page. Nothing but hatred for whites in her columns. The Tribunes token black female columnist.



#19 RandyP

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 03:32 PM

There is a link to contact the writer, so I e-mailed her this:

 

 

"Hello Ms. Glanton,

 

Might I ask if YOU have purchased the necessary permits to exercise your 1st Amendment RIGHTS? And if you are religious do you carry the necessary paid for permits to attend the worship of your choice? I will ‘assume’ you are also OK with charging citizens a fee for due process in the courts? And of course a reasonable amount to be allowed to vote?

 

Your opinion piece DOES suggest that your are OK with charging citizens a premium to exercise their liberties as found in the Bill of Rights?

 

If you are NOT actually OK with the extra charges I’ve mentioned? Please issue a retraction/clarification of your recent biased, illogical and unconstitutional treatise."

 

Thanks,

 

Randy P

Chicago, IL

Retired Vietnam Vet

who fought in a war to protect our Constitution and pesky Bill of RIGHTS


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#20 THE KING

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 03:35 PM

These newspapers believe it's ok to pay fees for exercising a constitutional right.

I did a little research and found that these newspapers per Illinois law are not required to pay taxes on the machines that print their papers. Their not required to pay taxes on the inks or the paper products that are used in the production of their newspapers.

Wonder what they would have to say if they had to start paying taxes on those products. I bet they would change their tune real fast.

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#21 Bubbacs

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 04:15 PM

Here is ISP Dist 10 HQ.
Want to tell me how they can take FOID apps in person for 6 counties
attachicon.gifisp dist 10.png


78 spots to park.

#22 kk5

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 04:24 PM

 

Here is ISP Dist 10 HQ.
Want to tell me how they can take FOID apps in person for 6 counties
attachicon.gifisp dist 10.png


78 spots to park.

 

And 8 people inside including dispatchers won't cut it.


Edited by kk5, 18 April 2019 - 04:25 PM.

Surrender, Like HE Double Hockey Sticks


#23 Bubbacs

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 05:20 PM

Here is ISP Dist 10 HQ.
Want to tell me how they can take FOID apps in person for 6 countiesattachicon.gifisp dist 10.png


78 spots to park.
And 8 people inside including dispatchers won't cut it.

Just filling in the blanks, I'm on your and others side.
Had nothing to do before dinner.

#24 ragsbo

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 05:29 PM

What other Constitutionally protected right do you have to pay the government a fee to exercise; after you pay to attend and pass the government required training and have to go through an in depth anal exam looking for any excuse to say no?



#25 BigJim

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 05:48 PM

These newspapers believe it's ok to pay fees for exercising a constitutional right.
I did a little research and found that these newspapers per Illinois law are not required to pay taxes on the machines that print their papers. Their not required to pay taxes on the inks or the paper products that are used in the production of their newspapers.
Wonder what they would have to say if they had to start paying taxes on those products. I bet they would change their tune real fast.

It wouldn't bother them. They would pass the cost on to whoever buys their rag.

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#26 BobPistol

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 06:28 PM

What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is hard for them to understand? 


The Second Amendment of the Constitution protects the rest.

#27 DomG

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:16 PM

I REALLY HOPE that the law passes and we have to submit fingerprints, pay $100 for a FOID, pay for our own background check AND have to apply for a FOID in person. Why? Because even to a brain dead judge, or better yet, the Federal District Court or USSC, THOSE will all amount to “infringement” and the FOID act will finally be ruled the unconstitutional law that it always has been.
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#28 357

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 09:52 PM

2A doesn't have to say, it is a given that there's no charges for Constitutional rights. Those bills are designed to make it harder for people who are supposed to have guns to legally obtain them.

Criminals can't use their fingerprints to obtain guns. What the bills would achieve is make it cost prohibitive for the poor and African Americans to legally obtain guns for protection. Those bills proposed come from Bloomberg and his groups who use any excuse to advance his civilian disarmament agenda under the guise of safety.
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#29 C0untZer0

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Posted 18 April 2019 - 10:33 PM

I'm looking forward to the day that a judge uses the term "Prior Restraint" in reference to a Second Amendment case.


“Most gun control arguments miss the point. If all control boils fundamentally to force, how can one resist aggression without equal force? How can a truly “free” state exist if the individual citizen is enslaved to the forceful will of individual or organized aggressors?
 
 It cannot.” 

 

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#30 Plinkermostly

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Posted 19 April 2019 - 07:10 AM

again -- logic fails to overcome stupid






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