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Looks like ATF reversed themselves.....again


DD123

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I admit, I am absolutely ignorant of most firearms laws other than CC here in Illinois.

 

I watched the video above. Am I correct that IF he had "shouldered" that weapon when firing it he would have been guilty of breaking a law ??????

 

If so, how freaking stupid is that!!

That's a level of stupid so high only a government bureaucrat could come up with it.
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Is the ATF letter "to legally shoulder the brace" applies to other brace manufacturer as well or it only applies to SB (for now)?

I am not a lawyer but I would say yes it applies to them all as long as they are unmodified. https://youtu.be/auAqPnh9iCg

Yep, looks that way to me. They refer to their open letter, which was for sigbrace.

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Honestly, at this point I had considered just increasing the length of my pistols to 26.5" and installing a stubby VFG to make them "firearms" under federal law.

 

( not to be confused with putting a vfg on a pistol shorter then 26.5....which would create an AOW.

 

Isnt the law fun?

Yeah it's pretty ridiculous.

 

But at least we won't have those range jockeys coming up to you shouldering a pistol brace trying to act as if they're ATF agents.

 

I already see two pistols in my future.....the MPX, Scorpion, or HK seems to have an MP5 pistol that would be pretty great, and/or a 300 blk pistol lol.

 

The only reason I didn't have one yet is because of the first stupid bureaucratic ruling.

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Why so much effort to skirt the NFA? SBRs are super easy to make now that you don't need CLEO sign-off. Sure, the stamp is $200, but once you have it you can do anything you want with your rifle.

Nothing to skirt for those that live under AWB's like Chicago, HP, Oak Park, et.al.

 

It's still technically a pistol so those folks can also enjoy the rights of everyone else.

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Why so much effort to skirt the NFA? SBRs are super easy to make now that you don't need CLEO sign-off. Sure, the stamp is $200, but once you have it you can do anything you want with your rifle.

Nothing to skirt for those that live under AWB's like Chicago, HP, Oak Park, et.al.

 

It's still technically a pistol so those folks can also enjoy the rights of everyone else.

 

NM

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Is the ATF letter "to legally shoulder the brace" applies to other brace manufacturer as well or it only applies to SB (for now)?

For now it seems like only the SB braces.

 

Nah

 

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?p=3524

 

 

 

marty | April 25, 2017 ATF Says That Shouldering Shockwave Blade is Okay!

I just got off the phone with a very nice gentleman at ATF Tech Branch—who was fielding these calls today. (He was, understandably, very well versed on the subject—and very nice about it even though he’s been on the phone all day, repeating himself ad nauseam.) I identified myself and asked him specifically if the letter that’s making the rounds is limited to one company’s products–or if it applies to all pistol stabilizing braces. He said: “The letter covers all pistol stabilizing braces, including the Shockwave Blade.” So that settles that.

He then gave me a bit of further guidance for our customers:

  1. By “permanent affixing,” ATF considers that to be adding permanent Loctite to the large set screw that secures the Blade into the dimples in the KAK tube. As long as you don’t red Loctite the set screw in place, ATF considers it to be “temporarily placed” and “perfectly okay to shoulder.” (He didn’t beat around the bush on this topic.)
  2. “Length of pull”—for lack of a better word regarding pistol braces—begins to enter a “gray area” above 13.5″. Above 13.5″ begins “to enter shoulder stock area.” (His words. I believe this has to do with the “comfortableness” aspect.) On an AR-15, the “length of pull” for the Blade is approximately 13.13″, so no issues there. But if you use the Blade on a firearm that requires a large adapter of some sort, please make sure that you only use the dimples up to the point that you remain below the 13.5″ length. Stay below 13.5″ and according to ATF, it’s okay to shoulder a Shockwave Blade.

So there you have it. Anything you read to the contrary on a web forum, social media site, or industry blog is simple misinformation by people who are not being completely honest.

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Why so much effort to skirt the NFA? SBRs are super easy to make now that you don't need CLEO sign-off. Sure, the stamp is $200, but once you have it you can do anything you want with your rifle.

Nothing to skirt for those that live under AWB's like Chicago, HP, Oak Park, et.al.

 

It's still technically a pistol so those folks can also enjoy the rights of everyone else.

 

 

Fair enough for Illinois residents in areas with bans. I acknowledge that is the best option for the poor souls stuck in those areas. Admittedly I should have been more clear that I was referring to gun owners throughout the country in general rather than here in Illinois. I would venture that most people, especially people who don't live in Illinois, are buying these simply to skirt the NFA so that they can put their Totally Not A Stock on their SBR pistol (wink wink). Good for them, but again, for most of the country (and most of Illinois now), SBRs are super easy to get so this is a solution in search for a problem. These braces were originally designed to be used by people with physical handicaps so that they could go shooting. Most people who are able-bodied and using the brace are doing so to skirt the NFA, which seems silly given how easy it is to get an SBR stamp so that you can use a real stock.

 

Honestly, people can and should be able do whatever they want. And this new ruling sure is useful for Chicago and other ban areas in Illinois. It just seems to me that a lot of effort nation-wide effort has been put into this whole brace/stock issue that probably could have been put somewhere more useful like National Reciprocity or the HPA. Whatever though, a win is a win. I'll stop looking the gift horse in the mouth.

 

SBRs are awesome though and if you are in an area where you can get one I'd suggest doing so. I can always pop the stock and VFG off of my SBR and carry it as a pistol if I want to. It gives you a little more flexibility.

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To each, their own. Honestly, there is not enough of a difference for me to care. There is no serious discernable advantage between my SBR and my pistol w/ thordsen. Lop is within 1/2 " of where I like it and I have the pistol balanced out pretty well. They both are going to blow my drums right out if fired in the house or vehicle...

 

If we could just land the damn Supressor bill.... I'd buy more stamps, throw a stubby VFG and a ksg on my 26" pistol and now I have a "firearm."

 

But, still...

 

Why would I want to pay another 200 bucks for more sbrs???

 

 

Turkish MP5 clones...Thats Why!!!!

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There's supposed to be some non-sense about length of pull...less than 13.5 inches from brace to trigger...I think it's another arbitrary standard set by the ATF. Supposedly they don't want braces to be the same length as a NATO standard stock. So, they want the brace to be around 9" in the length of pull. Anything longer than that they, in the past, have deemed to be a "stock" and not a brace.

 

Also, the ATF has decided in the past than any semiautomatic weapon with a rifled barrel and a manufactured weight of over 50oz is automatically not a pistol.

There has been another ruling from the ATF that the weight restriction only applies to weapons where the magazine well is outside the grip frame, but that hasn't been tested in court yet; if it does end up there it will almost certainly be tossed out. I have also heard that since the AWB sunset this ruling is no longer in effect.

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Are their any restrictions to be aware of on a pistol one may be building/buying to put a brace on?

I think I read a VFG is prohibited on pistol but an AVG is OK or was that related to pistol length? Anything else to watch for?

 

If you put a VFG on a pistol less then 26" OAL you have created an AOW. If you put an AFG you are fine. (NFA regulated)

 

If you put a VFG on a pistol over 26"OAL, you now have a "firearm".

 

Pretty messed up.

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