DD123 Posted April 25, 2017 at 03:26 AM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 03:26 AM Shouldering the pistol brace is now legal again apparently. http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/04/24/breaking-news-atf-reverses-stance-shouldering-stabilizing-braces/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDW Posted April 25, 2017 at 03:59 AM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 03:59 AM Sheesh, I can't keep up. Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0untZer0 Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:00 AM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:00 AM That makes that the Fostech SBV more attractive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA_NINJA Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:58 AM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:58 AM Is the ATF letter "to legally shoulder the brace" applies to other brace manufacturer as well or it only applies to SB (for now)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD123 Posted April 25, 2017 at 09:10 AM Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 09:10 AM Is the ATF letter "to legally shoulder the brace" applies to other brace manufacturer as well or it only applies to SB (for now)? For now it seems like only the SB braces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobPistol Posted April 25, 2017 at 11:16 AM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 11:16 AM The ATF was run by LWW's. Now it is run by people with a brain and not afraid to use it. That explains the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomKoz Posted April 25, 2017 at 01:39 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 01:39 PM I admit, I am absolutely ignorant of most firearms laws other than CC here in Illinois. I watched the video above. Am I correct that IF he had "shouldered" that weapon when firing it he would have been guilty of breaking a law ?????? If so, how freaking stupid is that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chislinger Posted April 25, 2017 at 01:57 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 01:57 PM I admit, I am absolutely ignorant of most firearms laws other than CC here in Illinois. I watched the video above. Am I correct that IF he had "shouldered" that weapon when firing it he would have been guilty of breaking a law ?????? If so, how freaking stupid is that!!That's a level of stupid so high only a government bureaucrat could come up with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRJ Posted April 25, 2017 at 02:46 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 02:46 PM Just in time. I almost bought a Tavor. The EVO pistol is looking might fine now, because it leave me cash to buy another gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD123 Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:11 PM Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:11 PM Just in time. I almost bought a Tavor. The EVO pistol is looking might fine now, because it leave me cash to buy another gun!Hehe, now I'm in the market for one too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevis Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:28 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:28 PM Where's the link for the actual letter? http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ATF-letter.pdf Analysis, legal experts of IC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdiver Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:33 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 04:33 PM Link to the letter would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbnut Posted April 25, 2017 at 06:54 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 06:54 PM Is the ATF letter "to legally shoulder the brace" applies to other brace manufacturer as well or it only applies to SB (for now)?I am not a lawyer but I would say yes it applies to them all as long as they are unmodified. https://youtu.be/auAqPnh9iCg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdiver Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:18 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:18 PM There are similar letters for thordsen.Barnes - Stabilizing Brace Letter - Final 3.21.179.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdiver Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:20 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:20 PM If you deliberately modify it, it would be illegal.....if you have not, EVEN IF IT IS FIRED FROM THE SHOULDER would not be illegal. They go as far as to say that the shouldering panic was due to a misinterpretation of their open letter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdiver Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:27 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:27 PM Honestly, at this point I had considered just increasing the length of my pistols to 26.5" and installing a stubby VFG to make them "firearms" under federal law. ( not to be confused with putting a vfg on a pistol shorter then 26.5....which would create an AOW. Isnt the law fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdiver Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:29 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:29 PM Is the ATF letter "to legally shoulder the brace" applies to other brace manufacturer as well or it only applies to SB (for now)?I am not a lawyer but I would say yes it applies to them all as long as they are unmodified. https://youtu.be/auAqPnh9iCgYep, looks that way to me. They refer to their open letter, which was for sigbrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD123 Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:31 PM Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 07:31 PM Honestly, at this point I had considered just increasing the length of my pistols to 26.5" and installing a stubby VFG to make them "firearms" under federal law. ( not to be confused with putting a vfg on a pistol shorter then 26.5....which would create an AOW. Isnt the law fun?Yeah it's pretty ridiculous. But at least we won't have those range jockeys coming up to you shouldering a pistol brace trying to act as if they're ATF agents. I already see two pistols in my future.....the MPX, Scorpion, or HK seems to have an MP5 pistol that would be pretty great, and/or a 300 blk pistol lol. The only reason I didn't have one yet is because of the first stupid bureaucratic ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRJ Posted April 25, 2017 at 11:26 PM Share Posted April 25, 2017 at 11:26 PM I just bought a new toy. Hehehehehehehehehe! I spent alll the money too. All of it. Was looking at Tavor and X95 and MPX and Scorpion EVO when I unexpectedly discovered something from Switzerland that will take a good looking brace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazborgufen Posted April 26, 2017 at 03:39 PM Share Posted April 26, 2017 at 03:39 PM Why so much effort to skirt the NFA? SBRs are super easy to make now that you don't need CLEO sign-off. Sure, the stamp is $200, but once you have it you can do anything you want with your rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD123 Posted April 26, 2017 at 03:52 PM Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 at 03:52 PM Why so much effort to skirt the NFA? SBRs are super easy to make now that you don't need CLEO sign-off. Sure, the stamp is $200, but once you have it you can do anything you want with your rifle.Nothing to skirt for those that live under AWB's like Chicago, HP, Oak Park, et.al. It's still technically a pistol so those folks can also enjoy the rights of everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRJ Posted April 26, 2017 at 05:18 PM Share Posted April 26, 2017 at 05:18 PM Why so much effort to skirt the NFA? SBRs are super easy to make now that you don't need CLEO sign-off. Sure, the stamp is $200, but once you have it you can do anything you want with your rifle.Nothing to skirt for those that live under AWB's like Chicago, HP, Oak Park, et.al. It's still technically a pistol so those folks can also enjoy the rights of everyone else. NM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Destro Posted April 26, 2017 at 06:58 PM Share Posted April 26, 2017 at 06:58 PM Is the ATF letter "to legally shoulder the brace" applies to other brace manufacturer as well or it only applies to SB (for now)?For now it seems like only the SB braces. Nah http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?p=3524 marty | April 25, 20174 comments ATF Says That Shouldering Shockwave Blade is Okay!I just got off the phone with a very nice gentleman at ATF Tech Branch—who was fielding these calls today. (He was, understandably, very well versed on the subject—and very nice about it even though he’s been on the phone all day, repeating himself ad nauseam.) I identified myself and asked him specifically if the letter that’s making the rounds is limited to one company’s products–or if it applies to all pistol stabilizing braces. He said: “The letter covers all pistol stabilizing braces, including the Shockwave Blade.” So that settles that.He then gave me a bit of further guidance for our customers:By “permanent affixing,” ATF considers that to be adding permanent Loctite to the large set screw that secures the Blade into the dimples in the KAK tube. As long as you don’t red Loctite the set screw in place, ATF considers it to be “temporarily placed” and “perfectly okay to shoulder.” (He didn’t beat around the bush on this topic.) “Length of pull”—for lack of a better word regarding pistol braces—begins to enter a “gray area” above 13.5″. Above 13.5″ begins “to enter shoulder stock area.” (His words. I believe this has to do with the “comfortableness” aspect.) On an AR-15, the “length of pull” for the Blade is approximately 13.13″, so no issues there. But if you use the Blade on a firearm that requires a large adapter of some sort, please make sure that you only use the dimples up to the point that you remain below the 13.5″ length. Stay below 13.5″ and according to ATF, it’s okay to shoulder a Shockwave Blade.So there you have it. Anything you read to the contrary on a web forum, social media site, or industry blog is simple misinformation by people who are not being completely honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD123 Posted April 26, 2017 at 07:00 PM Author Share Posted April 26, 2017 at 07:00 PM That's good to know ^^^ Now to figure out what to buy lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Destro Posted April 26, 2017 at 07:02 PM Share Posted April 26, 2017 at 07:02 PM That's good to know ^^^ Now to figure out what to buy lolIdeally I'd just go with a law folder, shockwave tube/brace combo. The adjustable brace looks nice, but it's expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazborgufen Posted April 26, 2017 at 07:05 PM Share Posted April 26, 2017 at 07:05 PM Why so much effort to skirt the NFA? SBRs are super easy to make now that you don't need CLEO sign-off. Sure, the stamp is $200, but once you have it you can do anything you want with your rifle.Nothing to skirt for those that live under AWB's like Chicago, HP, Oak Park, et.al. It's still technically a pistol so those folks can also enjoy the rights of everyone else. Fair enough for Illinois residents in areas with bans. I acknowledge that is the best option for the poor souls stuck in those areas. Admittedly I should have been more clear that I was referring to gun owners throughout the country in general rather than here in Illinois. I would venture that most people, especially people who don't live in Illinois, are buying these simply to skirt the NFA so that they can put their Totally Not A Stock on their SBR pistol (wink wink). Good for them, but again, for most of the country (and most of Illinois now), SBRs are super easy to get so this is a solution in search for a problem. These braces were originally designed to be used by people with physical handicaps so that they could go shooting. Most people who are able-bodied and using the brace are doing so to skirt the NFA, which seems silly given how easy it is to get an SBR stamp so that you can use a real stock. Honestly, people can and should be able do whatever they want. And this new ruling sure is useful for Chicago and other ban areas in Illinois. It just seems to me that a lot of effort nation-wide effort has been put into this whole brace/stock issue that probably could have been put somewhere more useful like National Reciprocity or the HPA. Whatever though, a win is a win. I'll stop looking the gift horse in the mouth. SBRs are awesome though and if you are in an area where you can get one I'd suggest doing so. I can always pop the stock and VFG off of my SBR and carry it as a pistol if I want to. It gives you a little more flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdiver Posted April 26, 2017 at 09:59 PM Share Posted April 26, 2017 at 09:59 PM To each, their own. Honestly, there is not enough of a difference for me to care. There is no serious discernable advantage between my SBR and my pistol w/ thordsen. Lop is within 1/2 " of where I like it and I have the pistol balanced out pretty well. They both are going to blow my drums right out if fired in the house or vehicle... If we could just land the damn Supressor bill.... I'd buy more stamps, throw a stubby VFG and a ksg on my 26" pistol and now I have a "firearm." But, still... Why would I want to pay another 200 bucks for more sbrs??? Turkish MP5 clones...Thats Why!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InterestedBystander Posted April 27, 2017 at 12:04 AM Share Posted April 27, 2017 at 12:04 AM Are their any restrictions to be aware of on a pistol one may be building/buying to put a brace on? I think I read a VFG is prohibited on pistol but an AVG is OK or was that related to pistol length? Anything else to watch for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRJ Posted April 27, 2017 at 12:54 AM Share Posted April 27, 2017 at 12:54 AM There's supposed to be some non-sense about length of pull...less than 13.5 inches from brace to trigger...I think it's another arbitrary standard set by the ATF. Supposedly they don't want braces to be the same length as a NATO standard stock. So, they want the brace to be around 9" in the length of pull. Anything longer than that they, in the past, have deemed to be a "stock" and not a brace. Also, the ATF has decided in the past than any semiautomatic weapon with a rifled barrel and a manufactured weight of over 50oz is automatically not a pistol.There has been another ruling from the ATF that the weight restriction only applies to weapons where the magazine well is outside the grip frame, but that hasn't been tested in court yet; if it does end up there it will almost certainly be tossed out. I have also heard that since the AWB sunset this ruling is no longer in effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdiver Posted April 27, 2017 at 04:45 AM Share Posted April 27, 2017 at 04:45 AM Are their any restrictions to be aware of on a pistol one may be building/buying to put a brace on? I think I read a VFG is prohibited on pistol but an AVG is OK or was that related to pistol length? Anything else to watch for? If you put a VFG on a pistol less then 26" OAL you have created an AOW. If you put an AFG you are fine. (NFA regulated) If you put a VFG on a pistol over 26"OAL, you now have a "firearm". Pretty messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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