kwc Posted August 25, 2015 at 06:52 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 06:52 PM I just received a response from ISP to my FOIA request regarding reasons for FCCLs being revoked since licenses were first issued early 2014. I'll attach a PDF for now and link to a spreadsheet later when I have the opportunity. Data are sorted by county and shows the date issued, date revoked, and reason for revocation. Numbers provided from ISP never quite match... the Aug FCCL data revealed a total of 244 revocations, but the listing I obtained today shows 396. It is possible some of these were restored and therefore don't show up in the FCCL data table. (EDIT: Many revocations have multiple reasons, but are listed as separate records. Actual presumed number of revocations is 250. See post #4 and later for specifics and updated table.) As for the reasons shown, I don't have any more information than you do to explain the reasons listed. A quick tabulation reveals the following reasons (sorted in order of most-to-least common reason): FOID-Inactive FOID Card: 141Subject of pending prosecution of an offense that is a disqualifier: 49FOID-Patient in a Mental Facility for the voluntary treatment of a mental illness in the last 5 years: 46Has been in residential or court-ordered treatment for alcohol or drugs in the past 5 years: 29FOID-Order of Protection: 23The Illinois State Police conducted an investigation and determined training provided by your instructor does not meet the requirements of 430 ILCS 66/75: 19FOID-Felony: 17FOID-Drug Prohibited: 16Subject of pending proceeding of an offense that is a disqualifier: 15FOID-Misdemeanor Domestic Violence: 9FOID-Clear and Present Danger: 8FOID-Addicted to Narcotics: 8Has a felony conviction that is a federal prohibitor: 5Inactive IL driver's license or ID card: 5FOID-Within in the past 5 years, Battery, Assault, Aggravated Assault, Violation of an Order of Protection, or a substantially similar offense in which a firearm was used or possessed: 3FOID-Adjudicated delinquent minor or an adult with a juvenile adjudication of a felony: 1FOID-Alien not lawfully present in the United States: 1Subject of pending arrest warrant of an offense that is a disqualifier: 1FOIA 15-1797.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrlandInstructor Posted August 25, 2015 at 06:55 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 06:55 PM Thanks for the update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregivq Posted August 25, 2015 at 07:09 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 07:09 PM Good work, as always! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted August 25, 2015 at 07:09 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 07:09 PM Perhaps some of the revocations on this list were for more than one reason, leading to a higher number as a result of double-counts. Edit to add: Note how many of these are in the same county, for a license that was issued on the same date and revoked on the same date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 25, 2015 at 07:39 PM Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 07:39 PM Perhaps some of the revocations on this list were for more than one reason, leading to a higher number as a result of double-counts. Edit to add: Note how many of these are in the same county, for a license that was issued on the same date and revoked on the same date. Ahaaaa... that's a good catch. For example, Cook County had two revoked on 4/6/2015 that were originally issued on 9/2/2014. Reasons are voluntary mental treatment and inactive FOID card. Both actions would likely be related. Will need to rethink the analysis of the data. I didn't expect multiple reasons for the same revocation to be presented as different records; I had asked for a unique identifier for each (as a derivative in some way of the applicant's number, without revealing personally-identifying information) but the ISP didn't provide that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:18 PM Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:18 PM I filtered out the duplicates (presumed to be ones from the same county issued and revoked on the same dates, for different reasons) and counted 250 total revocations. That's much closer to my August count of 244 (and suggests another 6 revocations have occurred since that table was produced). Thanks for catching this! So bottom line--FCCLs may have been revoked for multiple reasons. Those are listed on separate lines if applicable to the same license. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gangrel Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:21 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:21 PM No worries! I make my living looking for trends in spreadsheet data. Glad to use it for something more than a paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markthesignguy Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:22 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:22 PM A lesson learned is to NOT let your State ID/Driver's license lapse, nor your FOID lapse since they are all linked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirflyguy Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:47 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:47 PM A lesson learned is to NOT let your State ID/Driver's license lapse, nor your FOID lapse since they are all linked...In every CLIC FCCL class I teach, I make a huge point of telling them to not let their FOID card lapse. I need to also add in to not let their IL driver's license lapse, either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:49 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 08:49 PM I'll bet the "Inactive DL or State ID" are people who moved out of state. Otherwise it would be "Expired DL or State ID" which isn't a disqualifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoRonin70 Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:01 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:01 PM Why am I not surprised that Cook County has the largest number of revoked CCLs, likely surpassing even the population density reason for an increased number of revocations as compared to the rest of the state. I'd do the analysis and figure out the disparity, but all that would do is confirm a reason for my annoyance at the stupidity of this county's (and Chicago's) administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARFACE Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:01 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:01 PM Some of the reasons that cards get revoked are strange, don't all these disqualifiers show up on a background check? We have people denied their card for spitting on the sidewalk when they were 12 but we have people with felonies slipping through and getting caught later. I can understand the domestics and orders of protections and the court proceedings but some of these make you wonder. Thanks kwc, I was always curious about revocations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:03 PM Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:03 PM Given the strong likelihood of duplicate records (e.g. multiple reasons for the same revocation), here's a revised listing that identifies unique records. The assumption may not be 100% accurate but is reasonable and should be very close. I was so excited to get the data and share it that I didn't spend much time analyzing it yet. Thanks to those who did so. FOIA 15-1797 - Unique.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:20 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:20 PM Next time ask for the reason for every revocation. It will avoid doubling up on the reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:31 PM Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 09:31 PM Next time ask for the reason for every revocation. It will avoid doubling up on the reasons LOL, that's what I thought I was getting. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith44 Posted August 25, 2015 at 11:27 PM Share Posted August 25, 2015 at 11:27 PM So where is the count of FCCL's that have been revoked due to the holder moving out of Illinois? -Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 26, 2015 at 01:06 AM Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 at 01:06 AM So where is the count of FCCL's that have been revoked due to the holder moving out of Illinois? -Keith. I was hoping this listing would include those, but it isn't made explicitly clear. The "Inactive FOID card" or "Inactive Driver's License or ID" categories may include these, as stm suggests in post #10 above. I just submitted another FOIA request for a listing of CCLs cancelled due to out-of-state moves, and asked how these are categorized. The ISP has stated previously that there is a distinction between "cancelled" and "revoked," although the term "cancelled" never appears in the FCCA nor in the administrative rules. It is also unclear the ISP even has the legal authority to cancel one's license prior to its 5-year term simply because of a move to another state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 26, 2015 at 02:13 AM Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 at 02:13 AM Some of the reasons that cards get revoked are strange, don't all these disqualifiers show up on a background check? We have people denied their card for spitting on the sidewalk when they were 12 but we have people with felonies slipping through and getting caught later. I can understand the domestics and orders of protections and the court proceedings but some of these make you wonder. Thanks kwc, I was always curious about revocations. I don't think these are being caught later; I think the disqualifying event occurred after the CCL was issued. Some of the standard reasons in the validation table pick lists use "...within the past 5 years" or similar verbiage, but remember something that occurs within the past year, or within the past month, could still be accurately represented with that same reason. It doesn't mean that disqualifying event occurred several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARFACE Posted August 26, 2015 at 10:17 AM Share Posted August 26, 2015 at 10:17 AM Makes sense kwc. Thanks again though for taking the time to do this for us. Since I got my permit, I am almost obsessed with staying up on the law and any info I can find on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 26, 2015 at 10:29 AM Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 at 10:29 AM Makes sense kwc. Thanks again though for taking the time to do this for us. Since I got my permit, I am almost obsessed with staying up on the law and any info I can find on it. Glad to do it... and I share your obsession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim123 Posted August 27, 2015 at 03:07 AM Share Posted August 27, 2015 at 03:07 AM What is "An offense that is a disqualifier?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 27, 2015 at 10:18 AM Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 at 10:18 AM What is "An offense that is a disqualifier?" Probably one of the offenses listed in other reasons (narcotics, domestic violence, felony, etc.). If prosecution is pending, or proceedings underway, the reason for revocation wouldn't be the charge itself--it would be the fact that the licensee is "Subject of pending prosecution of an offense that is a disqualifier" or "Subject of pending proceeding of an offense that is a disqualifier" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted August 27, 2015 at 05:52 PM Share Posted August 27, 2015 at 05:52 PM Is it just me or does anyone else have an issue with the fact that you can be revoked if you have an inactive drivers license or id card !! Why should that be a requirement to exercise a constitutional right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim123 Posted August 27, 2015 at 06:38 PM Share Posted August 27, 2015 at 06:38 PM Is it just me or does anyone else have an issue with the fact that you can be revoked if you have an inactive drivers license or id card !! Why should that be a requirement to exercise a constitutional right.That's what I was wondering. I thought you had to be charged, tried, and convicted of a certain type of crime before they could take your permit away. Pretty scary or typical cook county bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm Posted August 27, 2015 at 06:48 PM Share Posted August 27, 2015 at 06:48 PM Is it just me or does anyone else have an issue with the fact that you can be revoked if you have an inactive drivers license or id card !! Why should that be a requirement to exercise a constitutional right. I think the "inactive DL or ID" is someone who has moved out of state. Notice it doesn't say expired or revoked DL or ID. But you're right, I don't see anything in the law that requires an active DL or ID in order to apply for a CCL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwc Posted August 27, 2015 at 07:45 PM Author Share Posted August 27, 2015 at 07:45 PM The application contents (Section 30 of the FCCA) require a valid state DL or ID number. (Note that the statute doesn't specify "Illinois.") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stm Posted August 27, 2015 at 08:42 PM Share Posted August 27, 2015 at 08:42 PM The application contents (Section 30 of the FCCA) require a valid state DL or ID number. (Note that the statute doesn't specify "Illinois.") I guess I missed that, thanks. Funny how they CANNOT require that in order to vote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmeyers Posted September 10, 2015 at 01:46 PM Share Posted September 10, 2015 at 01:46 PM Im not on the Revoked or the cancelled list but I have letters stating i was revoked and to turn it in and yes, I have surrendered it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim123 Posted September 11, 2015 at 02:13 AM Share Posted September 11, 2015 at 02:13 AM Im not on the Revoked or the cancelled list but I have letters stating i was revoked and to turn it in and yes, I have surrendered itDid they give a reason for being revoked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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